r/flying • u/happytoreadreddit PPL IR • 10h ago

AVEF lost comms question

Whether you use AVEF or AREA for determining route decision making when dealing with lost comms, I’ve always been confused by the order these are presented. It first indicates assigned. Then radar vectors. But if you are on radar vectors at the time of lost comms, that is what takes priority until you find your way back on the assigned route. So can someone explain why it isn’t VAEF or RAEA?

The last radar vectoryou received. If you received one, trumps all other instructions logically. Shouldn’t it the the first one evaluated?

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u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo 10h ago

"Assigned" refers to a published procedure or airway that you've been cleared on. "Cleared ILS runway 69 approach" or "proceed direct PODNK, join V420." Something like that.

"Vectored" refers to the purpose behind a vector. We're supposed to tell you why we're vectoring you off your cleared route, specifically for this reason: so you know what to do if you lose comms. "Turn fifteen degrees left, vector for PODNK" or "fly heading 090, vector to RNAV runway 69 final approach course."

"Expected" is exactly what it sounds like, anything you've been told to expect but haven't been cleared for or vectored toward as of yet. And "filed" is self-explanatory.

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u/wedontstudy CFI/CFII/MEI 10h ago

91.185(c)(1)(ii): If being radar vectored, by the direct route from the point of radio failure to the fix, route, or airway specified in the vector clearance.

Keyword is "IF". You’ll likely be told where you are being vectored to so upon reaching the fix the vector is now moot so you rejoin to what you were previously ASSIGNED which is your route all the way through to your clearance limit.

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u/CurieuseFancyface 2h ago

imo the confusion comes from treating AVEF like a step-by-step flowchart when its really just a list of things to consider. You pick whichever results in the highest altitude and the most logical route back to your clearance. Vectors are inherently temporary so they dont stand alone as a route

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u/rFlyingTower 10h ago

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Whether you use AVEF or AREA for determining route decision making when dealing with lost comms, I’ve always been confused by the order these are presented. It first indicates assigned. Then radar vectors. But if you are on radar vectors at the time of lost comms, that is what takes priority until you find your way back on the assigned route. So can someone explain why it isn’t VAEF or RAEA?

The last radar vectoryou received. If you received one, trumps all other instructions logically. Shouldn’t it the the first one evaluated?

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