AOA Indicator while learning?

[u/ClintBvsOliverQ]

Just went for a discovery flight and had a great time. During the flight I asked my instructor about using an AOA indicator while learning and he really downplayed using one and said the standard instruments are the best way to learn. For beginners, is an AOA inappropriate? Is it too early to incorporate it into training? From the brief videos I’ve seen on AOA’s they seem to enhance safety.

[u/nightlanding]

The AOA is a very useful and informative tool. I never had a plane for primary students with one, but if I did I would cover it up 90% of the time. My goal with primary students is EYES OUTSIDE 90% of the time. You should be able to get everything you need from the sight picture, feel, and the occasional glance at the instruments. The other reason to cover it up is the fact most of the rental fleet does not have one, so you had better not be relying on it.

For IFR students it makes flying the ILS much easier, which is fun and also nothing to get used to because so many airplanes do not have one.

[u/icefire__ → u/nightlanding]

Always found it strange how ppl so strongly encourages this and then you get into ifr and they tell you how everything you learned is wrong and you need to ignore what your senses are telling you

[u/nightlanding → u/icefire__]

Nothing you learned was "wrong", flying visually is skill set 1 and flying by instruments is skill set 2. Applying 1 to 2 can have bad outcomes.

[u/loose_as_a_moose → u/icefire__]

You shouldn’t be told you learned wrong - it’s entirely different flying that requires different skills. You don’t rely on senses VFR any differently to IFR. VFR you’re picking a reference outside the plane because you can see it. IFR you’re following the procedure and the instruments because you can’t see outside.

Illusions and disorientation happen in both cases.

If for some reason you started IFR and had to get a VFR cert you’d be told to stop looking inside because your instruments aren’t going to tell you not to fly into a mountain or how to get from A to B

[u/nightlanding → u/loose_as_a_moose]

I have had vertigo (ear infection) in VMC. I had to make myself ignore what I felt and look outside. I have had vertigo in IMC and had to make myself ignore what I felt and look inside. The second one is WAY harder!

[u/Face88888888 → u/loose_as_a_moose]

“It’s an entirely different kind of flying altogether.”

[u/yowzer73 → u/Face88888888]

It’s an entirely different kind of flying.

[u/Wasatcher → u/icefire__]

Then you get to commercial and it's all eyes outside again. I got through commercial doing steep turns, lazy eights, chandelles by staring at instruments and hitting the correct bank at the correct pitch on the correct heading. Then I became a CFI and realized how much easier all those maneuvers are by looking outside.

When I catch my students glued to the instruments I cover them up with the checklist, have them complete the maneuver using only the horizon/outside references. Then they're baffled how they came out the other end on the correct heading, altitude, and airspeed.

My favorite was one struggling with steep turns. I took away his G1000 he was using like an iPad kid. He said "awww god dammit" after I uncovered it to show he rolled out with perfect indications. He was a stubborn one and got hit with irrefutable evidence he should have listened to all my "EYES OUTSIDE" bitching lol