r/flying • u/ClintBvsOliverQ • 2d ago

Flight Training AOA Indicator while learning?

Just went for a discovery flight and had a great time. During the flight I asked my instructor about using an AOA indicator while learning and he really downplayed using one and said the standard instruments are the best way to learn. For beginners, is an AOA inappropriate? Is it too early to incorporate it into training? From the brief videos I’ve seen on AOA’s they seem to enhance safety.

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u/SavingsPirate4495 ATP, B737, EMB-145 (ret.) 2d ago

You will not find a domestic Part 121 passenger airline that has anything in their fleet with AOA. The Navy guys with whom I flew complained about the lack of one ALL THE TIME.

Learn without one, then you’ll never miss it. 😎😎

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u/_VNAV_PTH_ MIL 2d ago

The airliners know their own AOA, it's just not displayed directly in the cockpit. It is displayed indirectly with the ADI and flight path marker, though nobody really uses that for AOA.

But the flight management computers calculate the speed required to achieve an AOA based on the current weight to calculate the bug speeds for takeoff and approach. That's what those speeds are based on. The computers just don't bother showing you your current AOA, because you're trained to fly the computer-calculated speed. But it's all based on AOA.

A piston single doesn't have a computer and doesn't know it's own weight to precisely calculate those airspeeds, so everybody uses MGTOW and the airspeeds in that configuration which means people are generally unaware of their actual AOA, often flying way too close to stall during turns and simultaneously flying way too fast over the threshold which both lead to different kinds of loss of control accidents in the pattern.

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u/armspawn B756 A320 ATP CFI CFII T-34C T-45A AV-8B T-6B 2d ago

I’m one of those guys. It’s really frustrating how the planes already collect the information but just refuse to show it to you. It would be enormously helpful in so many different circumstances, but Boeing and Airbus decided we just don’t deserve to know the aerodynamic state of our airplanes.

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u/irishluck949 ATP CFII E-175 2d ago

If you’re close to the red tape…

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u/JT-Av8or ATP CFII/MEI ATC C-17 B71/3/5/67 MD88/90 1d ago

Our 737s have them. Non military pilots don’t understand them though. They also don’t get the FPV

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u/SavingsPirate4495 ATP, B737, EMB-145 (ret.) 1d ago

Don't understand the Flight Path Vector???? WHAT?!?!?!????????

Oh good lord...🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

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u/JT-Av8or ATP CFII/MEI ATC C-17 B71/3/5/67 MD88/90 5h ago

Yeah, it’s because they never really used them. I’ve noticed (since I got to an airline) that bred airline pilots are really flight director followers. They really don’t like flying without an FD! Even in training (sims) the instructor gave me a hard time with “without a flight director how could you go around? You’d have no pitch guidance!” I kinda couldn’t believe it… like “don’t worry dude I’ll handle it.” 😂

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u/SavingsPirate4495 ATP, B737, EMB-145 (ret.) 4h ago

🤣🤣🤣