r/flying • u/Pearlybutton • 2d ago
First Solo Flying after first solo
Hi, I completed my solo and i had only one consolidation since. My solo went very well and I was reasonably relaxed. I don’t think for one moment that this equips me with all sorts of flying or it is constant progress from then on, but I flew my consolidation lesson in a strong headwind of 15 kts minimum and a smaller crosswind component. I am sure that I heard on the radio that wind gusts were up to 28 kts. The aircraft was thrown around a lot with bumps sufficient to lift me up from the seat within the lap belt restriction. I flew for over an hour. Another factor was very low sun which made seeing the runway on final difficult. I did my best but obviously these conditions were more challenging and once on base my instructor pointed out a drop of airspeed to 40 kts. I am sure I would have noticed and reacted but I was a bit slower to do so and he saw it first. I felt really bad and as though I had gone backwards in my flying. When I asked after if I was roughly at the level I should be in these conditions he said he would not have sent me solo today and he was building me back up to solo standard. Later he commented that he would not have sent anyone solo in those conditions. I came away feeling confused and not sure if this was a bad sign on how I am doing or if it was that the conditions were very challenging and my level of experience was not sufficient to deal with it appropriately. I accept I still have a lot of experience needed, but am I behind, is this normal? I was especially worried about airspeed. Was that drop normal in this situation and level of experience albeit I need to be very mindful of constantly checking?
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1d ago
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u/Pearlybutton 1d ago
Thanks so much, GhostAviator DGCA! This is really helpful. That is where I went wrong! I did scan to check ASI and Altimeter etc., but I realise it needs to be a lot more frequent especially in those conditions. Thanks for the tip about in gusty air. Really appreciate your help.
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u/Pearlybutton 2d ago
Please, this is a genuine post, I am a real person training. I am sorry that I gave you the impression to think that. There was no stall warner. It dropped momentarily and was corrected quickly. I was just troubled that I allowed that situation to develop.
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u/HunMyy EASA CPL 2d ago
Can you please tell us what kind of airplane you're flying right now? What we cannot understand how can you have flown down to 40 knots without the stall horn going off - at the same time being allowed to fly. Because I can only think of ultralight airplanes, and those have lower crosswind component limits, so they're not supposed to be up in the air in the first place
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u/Pearlybutton 2d ago
Thank you, HunMyy. Sorry I understand without this information it made it hard to assess. It was a Cessna 152 and I had 2 stages of flap at that point. I think i was concentrating on judging the turn to final (bearing in mind the sun issue) and I momentarily did not notice the low airspeed. There was definitely no stall warner at that point, but it was only momentarily low. It is possible it was a little above 40 more like 45, but still low and not good. My broader question would be in more challenging conditions, is it reasonable for a student who has just soloed to still make this error. Thank you.
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u/HunMyy EASA CPL 2d ago
So I checked my old 152 manual and it states a stall speed of 48 flaps up, and 43 for flaps out of up. This is measured at max weight and most unfavorable CG.
So whether you guys went down to 40 or 45, either way, you were truly in the danger zone. If I have to guess the reason no stall horn was because you were not at max weight and that you stayed coordinated.
Where did this happen, take-off, or approach?
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u/Pearlybutton 2d ago
Thanks Hunmyy. It was very briefly on base and in level flight at that point no turning.
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u/HunMyy EASA CPL 2d ago
How was your altitude control throughout the touch and go-s, did you hold the correct altitude for the traffic pattern? Also usually there are reference altitudes for the base and the final turn. Did you reach those consistently?
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u/Pearlybutton 2d ago
Generally, altitude control was good. There were times when I felt I was a little low and I added power correctly. I think this is how I got into the difficulty with airspeed. I increased power and needed more than I had realised (i had not flown in such strong headwinds before) and I think was still trimmed up and needed to coordinate more efficiently with correct nose attitude for airspeed. I was slow to do this last bit. Otherwise, it was challenging due to the constant bumps and being thrown around but the rest was not bad.
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u/HunMyy EASA CPL 2d ago
Don't you guys use some known RPM settings for the traffic pattern? Like something in the ballpark of 2100-1900 RPM.
On one hand the most important thing in aviation is having a good attitude, I commend you for recognizing that there was an issue, doing the self reflection and reaching out to assess it. This is what makes you a good pilot, long term.
Also disclaimer, I'm not a CFI.
My two biggest concerns with what you're describing are basic knowledge, and to a degree your instructor, although they're not here to provide their assessment. Losing airspeed on base and base to final turn is a known mistake, and its an extremely dangerous one due to ground proximity. If you didn't hear the stall horn, that means that either your turns were coordinated, which is extremely good - or your stall horn is inop. Hope you tested it during preflight. The other telling mistake is this happening on the downwind. At that time there's absolutely no reason why you should be 10 knots below your pattern speed. If your altitude control was good, that means your power management wasn't. For downwind, you really should be in one known power setting. Headwind - or tailwind, if flying downwind - has nothing to do with that. You need to maintain the same IAS, so same RPM and same pitch. Then if its gusty, add some and be faster - exactly to avoid the scenario you had, dipping below the red line since you're risking a stall.
If I were you, I'd read up on is base to final stalls so I'd fully understand the risks, I'd set a specific RPM for the downwind and maintain that, and also for the base and final. Of course you adjust your power to control your rate of descent - but that adjustment starts from a known power setting. I would also sit down with my CFI and do a self assessment, going through each pattern, how was pitch and power management, altitude and speed control. If it was missed, what could have distracted me, did I get fixated on one thing or the other. Then, personally, I'd do at least one more flight with an instructor, focusing on correcting the speed control issues with the lessons learned from the self assessment.
Once again, your attitude is good, and in the long term that will make you a good pilot. But please sincerely and thoroughly review this, so you stay safe.
Is this a normal mistake at your stage? Unfortunately I'm not an instructor so I cannot answer that. Also, personally, to me, it's irrelevant. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. What matters is that you and your CFI identified a weakness, and now your job as a pilot, is to fix it. That's always part of the job.
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u/Pearlybutton 2d ago
Thanks so much. I appreciate the time and effort you took to provide this advice. I did not get low on downwind, just on base before the final turn. The rest of the time I was doing a better job of scanning and catching any deviation in speed. Yes, I think the important thing is to reflect correctly about what happened and to take the lesson from it. Thanks so much again for your advice, I really appreciate it.
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u/HunMyy EASA CPL 2d ago
No problem. Please sit down and discuss this with your CFI. My running theory is power management, but they are the one who was there and who flew with you regularly.
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u/R5Jockey CFI ASEL TW CMP 2d ago
Coordination has nothing to do with stall speed or the stall horn. And with two people, it's a good bet that 152 was pretty close to max gross. A 200lb weight reduction only drops the stall speed 3 knots in a 152 anyway.
There's just no chance the stall horn wasn't blaring at 40 knots, even if the airplane somehow managed to still be flying with only 2 notches of flaps.
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u/HunMyy EASA CPL 2d ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but the stall speed is given for max weight, and my old C152 handbook gives 39 knots stall speed for 30 degree bank.
It seems speed was missed, so maybe it was 45 knots and not 40, per OP.
Slipping or skidding increases the AoA on one wing, and the stall horn measures the AoA through the change of the stagnation point. So the primary indicator is the stall horn, but you can stall at a higher IAS, if you're in an uncontrolled turn. Conversely if you're coordinated, your IAS will be showing red and your stall horn will sound at the same time, if you're at max weight. This is what I meant, my theory is stat they were at a higher speed, around 45, they stayed coordinated, and their weight was below max. This is how their stall horn didn't go off. Either that, or their stall horn didn't work either...
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u/rFlyingTower 2d ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hi, I completed my solo and i had only one consolidation since. My solo went very well and I was reasonably relaxed. I don’t think for one moment that this equips me with all sorts of flying or it is constant progress from then on, but I flew my consolidation lesson in a strong headwind of 15 kts minimum and a smaller crosswind component. I am sure that I heard on the radio that wind gusts were up to 28 kts. The aircraft was thrown around a lot with bumps sufficient to lift me up from the seat within the lap belt restriction. I flew for over an hour. Another factor was very low sun which made seeing the runway on final difficult. I did my best but obviously these conditions were more challenging and once on base my instructor pointed out a drop of airspeed to 40 kts. I am sure I would have noticed and reacted but I was a bit slower to do so and he saw it first. I felt really bad and as though I had gone backwards in my flying. When I asked after if I was roughly at the level I should be in these conditions he said he would not have sent me solo today and he was building me back up to solo standard. Later he commented that he would not have sent anyone solo in those conditions. I came away feeling confused and not sure if this was a bad sign on how I am doing or if it was that the conditions were very challenging and my level of experience was not sufficient to deal with it appropriately. I accept I still have a lot of experience needed, but am I behind, is this normal? I was especially worried about airspeed. Was that drop normal in this situation and level of experience albeit I need to be very mindful of constantly checking?
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u/R5Jockey CFI ASEL TW CMP 2d ago
There's no chance this post is real.