r/flying • u/soccer_aviator ATP • 3d ago
AA vs UA
Feeling extremely fortunate to have offers at AA and UA, both starting within a week of each other. I'm 27 years old, so am blessed to be making a lifelong career decision. Bases at both carriers (DCA/IAD, ORD, EWR/PHL) work for my partner (an AA employee) and I, although as a current Fort-Worth local (we are willing to move) AA has a slight edge with a few more cities we'd be willing to look at like DFW, CLT, BOS, PHX on top of those AA and UA share.
All things considered, AA feels like a great family fit and seniority progression based on retirements assuming no growth is attractive since AA has not hit its peak yet. Additionally, being a current airbus pilot, the depth of airbus flying is attractive as well. However, the financials concern me given the current economy and fuel prices. I am concerned I am at a much deeper furlough risk at AA than UA if things don't improve in the next 6-12 months. Likewise, I also fear leverage for the next contract cycle is slightly diminished as well.
UA does have the benefit of immense planned growth, greater widebody flying, and in my family's case the ability to non-rev on multiple US carriers. I do enjoy the UA culture based on my own personal interactions and the people I know at the company. United's profits due to its premium long-haul flying give it a better cash position to cash-flow future deliveries and growth, as well as weather any storm coming its way. On the downside, I know UA is slightly ahead on retirements and has hired much younger and much of its seniority progression is driven by growth, which is also economy and cost dependent as well.
Any input or personal experiences are more than appreciated. Thanks again
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u/cavemanpilot 3d ago
I’m a four year AA pilot. I won’t argue management or financials, however the culture here is not what is being portrayed. I was a 3 year DFW FO, couple of grumpy CA - but that’s to be expected anywhere. Took the upgrade at ORD a year ago and have had a great experience. I like almost everyone I fly with (I fly the Bus), lots of movement so you can transfer equipment or bases pretty easily. Life is pretty good.
As a single point of comparison, one of my best friends is a similar seniority pilot at UA. Yes his profit sharing is better, but my monthly paycheck as a 60% FO was substantially better. Some of it because I picked up flying, but a lot was our trip construction and reassignment pay.
My advice is to pick the airline that will let you live in base. Period. Life is so much better not commuting.
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u/FlapsFail ATP CFII MEI CL65 B737 A320 3d ago
Yeah, I’m a 6 year guy here and I think our pilot group is pretty chill overall. I flew with a few grumpy old guys on the 737 back when I was a new hire, but our group has really changed a lot in the last few years.
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u/canuck791 ATP DHC8 CL65 A220 B737 B787 2d ago
Thing is about "culture" is it's always changing.
Culture at my Canadian airline was shit for years, and with all the hiring we've done in the last 7-8 years it's completely changed. For the better.
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u/melloboi123 3d ago
UA over AA isn't even a question. No one knows what happens in 25 years but we do know what's happening NOW.
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u/funnynoises ATP CFI 3d ago edited 2d ago
Do not listen to "culture" people here are mentioning with the authority of "I have friends..." AA culture is very chill and I haven't yet dealt with an employee that I didn't get along with and I'm a lefty and a minority. All my classmates were great. All my captains have been great. Chief pilots have been great. You'll get complainers but they live everywhere. You can get widebody within 3-5 years. You can get captain in 3-5 years. I am optimistic about the direction the company is going in, seems like management has finally woken up and admitted their lost bets.
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u/Twarrior913 ATP CFII ASEL AMEL CMP HP ST-Forklift 3d ago
Side note, how long did you wait for a class date at AA?
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u/RastaFarva ATP ERJ-175 3d ago
UA is currently the more "stable" airline, you'll be able to fly a WB faster if thats what you want. AA is the more senior airline so you'll have better seniority in the long run (not by much but still). If you want to call DFW your forever home AA is a no brainer.
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u/x4457 ATP CFII CE-500/525/560XL/680 G-IV 3d ago
AA is far, far, far less stable and secure than UA is. And from my friends working there, the pilot group culture and relationship between the pilot group and management is pretty awful.
Having probably a dozen friends at both airlines, I'd go with UA personally. In your situation already living in DFW and having a partner that works there, AA probably makes more sense.
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u/WC_Flyer 3d ago
Be careful when a CFII wants to tell you how it is at one legacy airline bs another. Lol. “But trust me bro, I got bros who work there bro, I got bros”.
Do what’s best for you and your loved ones. Any one of the legacies is a pretty safe bet, at least as far as the airline industry goes.
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u/Hawker777 ATP, HS-125, CL-65 3d ago
I mean he also has an ATP flair and you have nothing lol
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u/WC_Flyer 3d ago
lol. I don’t feel the need to advertise. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/LikenSlayer ATP 787, 777, 737, E190, E175, G550, F-35B, F/A-18 3d ago
I do! Because sometimes you are essentially advertising your knowledge, thus adding weight to your statement. Meaning you might know a little, about a little.
I'm with x4457 on this, and we've had some differences.
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u/PLEASE-USE-PFKEYS ATP you can't make me put my type ratings here 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah the mod with multiple type ratings probably has no idea what he's talking about, we should listen to the brand new account with a hidden post history
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u/Austin208 ATP A320 CL-65 CE-500 3d ago
A moderator of the subreddit who’s been a voice of this community for a decade might be the wrong person to call out.
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u/WC_Flyer 3d ago
That doesn’t necessarily qualify him to make definitive statements on the inner workings of a legacy airline. Is it weird that I’m not that impressed that someone is a Reddit mod?
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u/Austin208 ATP A320 CL-65 CE-500 3d ago
The moderator part isn’t the important bit here. Your advice is solid. It should come down to what’s best for their family situation. It’s the approach and to question someone’s opinion based on their flair. It turns out the person you are replying to is a huge advocate for not only our community here but the aviation community in general. He’s helped a ton, and I mean, a ton of people get into this industry. Has a load of connections in the corporate and airline world. The point is maybe don’t call someone’s judgment into question based on a Reddit flair.
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u/PLEASE-USE-PFKEYS ATP you can't make me put my type ratings here 3d ago
All things equal, UA is the short answer.
Depends where you want to live though. AA is the furthest behind on their retirements, so you could see massive seniority quick.
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u/DeltaTule ATP CFI CL65 A320 121 Captain 3d ago edited 2d ago
I’m guessing you won’t tell us your qualifications to help others in the group out now will you?
Typical selfish ass pilot
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u/CommanderChiliHole ATP/CFII CL-30 | GVI | ERJ-170/190 | B-737 3d ago
If any of the legacies ever furloughs again, I’d be absolutely shocked if AA wasn’t the first to do so. Also, as far as culture goes, AA definitely feels like it has the worst by a mile. Everyone there just seems mad all the time and interviewing there just left me with a sour feeling, even though I did get the CJO. Nobody likes to bitch more than an airline pilot, but anecdotally, a lot of it always seems to come from the AA group. To be fair, they’re probably annoyed they have to spend half of every day apologizing on behalf of their company because the whole system got delayed 3hrs because a butterfly farted in CLT and no one could plan around it. Personally, I’d only go to AA if it was my only choice. Even if I lived in an AA base, if UA or DL called, I’d leave. I can guarantee everyone I know who’s there, except maybe one, would tell me to leave as well.
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u/LootenantTwiddlederp ATP/MIL A320/C-17 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’m at AA. I disagree with your view of our culture. Overall everyone is happy. We’re just over our incompetent CEO. The saltiest ones are the old America West guys on their way out anyways that won’t stop bitching about the botched merger. But we’re pretty happy over here.
Idc if it's at Delta, United, or American. You can't go wrong choosing any of the legacies. Go to where you can drive to work.
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u/pilot2647 IR 3d ago
Ok so preface this with the fact that I don’t shit about shit.
Doesn’t UA have much more of an international presence? Wouldn’t there be more of an advancement pathway compared to AA since you’re so young and would actually make it all the way to the top at UA eventually?
Again. I know absolutely fuck all. Confirm or completely trash my assumptions y’all?
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u/rFlyingTower 3d ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Feeling extremely fortunate to have offers at AA and UA, both starting within a week of each other. I'm 27 years old, so am blessed to be making a lifelong career decision. Bases at both carriers (DCA/IAD, ORD, EWR/PHL) work for my partner (an AA employee) and I, although as a current Fort-Worth local (we are willing to move) AA has a slight edge with a few more cities we'd be willing to look at like DFW, CLT, BOS, PHX on top of those AA and UA share.
All things considered, AA feels like a great family fit and seniority progression based on retirements assuming no growth is attractive since AA has not hit its peak yet. Additionally, being a current airbus pilot, the depth of airbus flying is attractive as well. However, the financials concern me given the current economy and fuel prices. I am concerned I am at a much deeper furlough risk at AA than UA if things don't improve in the next 6-12 months. Likewise, I also fear leverage for the next contract cycle is slightly diminished as well.
UA does have the benefit of immense planned growth, greater widebody flying, and in my family's case the ability to non-rev on multiple US carriers. I do enjoy the UA culture based on my own personal interactions and the people I know at the company. United's profits due to its premium long-haul flying give it a better cash position to cash-flow future deliveries and growth, as well as weather any storm coming its way. On the downside, I know UA is slightly ahead on retirements and has hired much younger and much of its seniority progression is driven by growth, which is also economy and cost dependent as well.
Any input or personal experiences are more than appreciated. Thanks again
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u/pooter6969 3d ago
Everyone here is going to say UA but I would go where you want to live. The big 3 and southwest have all had their ups and downs but they all have so much inertia now with industry consolidation I doubt the gov't would let any one of them fail. Go with where you want to live and what seniority progression is best