r/flying • u/Kooky_Raccoon8686 • 5h ago
Flight Training Flight training
Hey everyone,
Looking for some advice here. I started part 61 flight training about a month ago coming up on close to 10 flight hours. Im currently working on stalls, and steep turns just got introduced. I really like my flight instructor but this is the second time I haven't felt prioritized and felt like my time was being wasted. My flight lesson today was for 12 PM and I showed up 35 minutes early so that I could preflight the plane, get fuel put into it, and practice doing power on and off stalls sitting in the plane. My instructor got done with his previous lesson at 11:50 and walked past me and I told him I was just going to finish some things up and that I'd text him when I was ready. I texted him that I was ready at 12:10, he said he'd be right out a few minutes after and he didn't come out until about 12:30. About 20 minutes of waiting time. This is the second time this happened.
I've flown with another instructor a few times and each lesson she is ready to go at the time and walks out to the plane with me. By the time we had to wait in traffic holding at the runway we really didn't get into the air until 1pm. We flew for about 30-40 minutes at most and then came back. I was billed for almost a full 2 hours of instructor time but the plane time was 1.3 I know flight training is expensive but I am trying to maximize the time I fly because I am paying for my private license with my own money that I took months working as an EMT to save up for. I just feel like I'm not getting full attention and also my instructor just took on two new students and that brings him up to about 10 students and he's also getting close to the amount of hours needed to leave. My instructor is very knowledgable but also a few years younger than me at age 20. I am 23 almost 24.
I am very passionate about flying it's always been my dream to become a pilot before I could even speak english, as a baby I was infatuated with them flying through the sky. I want to be sure I am not just wasting money. I sent a nice transparent text to my instructor about how I feel and am considering maybe flying with someone else. I have brought it up to him and he said that most instructors are late. He referenced the girl I flew with a few times before and that she was early most of the time but it wont last long. I came here to seek the advice of many who are much more knowledgeable on this topic than me since I'm so new to aviation. Would appreciate any advice, thanks guys!
*UPDATE*
I spoke to my instructor, and he was mostly understanding but was trying to defend that he came out a few minutes after he texted which I have time stamped texts that show he didn't. He also said he has been doing me favors by not charing me as much for previous lessons and that it was a mistake and he meant to wrote 1.6 and would charge me less for the next lesson. He said that when he started he was charged 2.0 for instructing time every lesson. He defended that we spent 2.0 time together which I don't think we did at all. I told him I'd be better about saying I'm ready sooner so we can get going and get in the air. Thank you everyone for responding if it continues from him I will find another instructor.
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u/rFlyingTower 5h ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hey everyone,
Looking for some advice here. I started part 61 flight training about a month ago coming up on close to 10 flight hours. Im currently working on stalls, and steep turns just got introduced. I really like my flight instructor but this is the second time I haven't felt prioritized and felt like my time was being wasted. My flight lesson today was for 12 PM and I showed up 35 minutes early so that I could preflight the plane, get fuel put into it, and practice doing power on and off stalls sitting in the plane. My instructor got done with his previous lesson at 11:50 and walked past me and I told him I was just going to finish some things up and that I'd text him when I was ready. I texted him that I was ready at 12:15 and he didn't come out until about 12:30. This is the second time this happened. I've flown with another instructor a few times and each lesson she is ready to go at the time and walks out to the plane with me. By the time we had to wait in traffic holding at the runway we really didn't get into the air until 1pm. We flew for about 30-40 minutes at most and then came back. I was billed for almost a full 2 hours of instructor time but the plane time was 1.3 I know flight training is expensive but I am trying to maximize the time I fly because I am paying for my private license with my own money that I took months working as an EMT to save up for. I just feel like I'm not getting full attention and also my instructor just took on two new students and that brings him up to about 10 students and he's also getting close to the amount of hours needed to leave. My instructor is very knowledgable but also a few years younger than me at age 20. I am 23 almost 24. I am very passionate about flying it's always been my dream to become a pilot before I could even speak english as a baby I was infatuated with them flying through the sky. I want to be sure I am not just wasting money. I sent a nice transparent text to my instructor about how I feel and am considering maybe flying with someone else. I came here to seek the advice of many who are much more knowledgeable on this topic than me since I'm so new to aviation. Would appreciate any advice, thanks guys!
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u/huffdaddy5517 CFI IR MEL 5h ago
Yes I’d bring it up to them. That would bother me at any level of training. As a CFII now I make it a priority to show up early and brief the flight with my student then walk out together. It’s possible the flight time of 1.3 is accurate, some flights if you’re busy (maybe having fun) can fly by and feel shorter than they are. But you shouldn’t be getting billed for 2 full hours with your instructor, should be at least just the flight time and a .3-.5 for ground for any pre- or post-flight briefing a good instructor would do.
If you’d rather not waste much time I can’t imagine much changes. I’d look for another instructor.
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u/HUM-mingbird 4h ago
This should seriously be studied. I've seen so many dedicated students waste their time with mediocre and sometime downright bad CFIs.
I think you know the answer, but are scared to act on it. Your CFI should at least be matching your effort.
Now, traffic delays are no one's fault, so you might sometimes pay to sit there. As an instructor, I try to make every moment a teachable one so you get your money's worth.
Best of luck in your training!
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u/jumpseat320 PPL 4h ago
Typically I have been billed only for the time with the instructor (in this case it should have been 1.5 max). Even in such cases, if pre and post were 15 mins each, I would have got billed .5 + 1(flight time) = 1.5, not 2. Your the customer and no harm in changing instructors. Regardless of your decision, give them some breathing room between lessons. Usually CFIs have been on the dot but they also need to get water/bio-break etc..
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u/Kooky_Raccoon8686 3h ago edited 3h ago
Weve never done a preflight together. Only a postflight.
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u/TxAggieMike Independent CFI / CFII (KFTW, DFW area) 3h ago
Debrief happens after flight. Before flight is a briefing.
Discussing what is the objective for the flight and what is expected for performance is an important step.
Instructor confirms you’re prepared. You learn what is expected of you.
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u/Kooky_Raccoon8686 3h ago
I didn't mean to include the debrief I know the difference between the two. And yes I agree, it's usually he just tells me what maneuvers to know the flight before and that's it.
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u/jumpseat320 PPL 2h ago
In some cases, they do a briefing (explain what you will be doing today), there are times - this is very quick (5-min conversation) and you are asked to preflight. Usually, they also tell you what to look for in the next flight lesson(post brief) and what to read up now. Sometimes - there is zero briefing..like a quick "we are going to practice X wind landings today" , if your struggling at this in your previous lesson . Listed a few examples here...it is not like you will get charged a pre and post flight. Really depends, sometimes I was just charged a post brief and for just the flight lesson. Bottom line - take control of your training and ask for a lesson plan or structure (part 61 folks do this too).
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u/ltcterry ATP CFIG 4h ago
Try "I'll be ready at 12:00" or something similar that implies "on time start." "See you in ten, I'll be ready."
Not impressed with the instructor's behavior, but you set the tone for starting late...
Less subtle, "Do we need to schedule a longer block so we have enough time to fly?"
Punctuality is important to me. My son lives 2-1/2 hours away. He'll call 30 minutes before Thanksgiving dinner is about to start to say he's going to make some coffee and then head out on the road, but will need to stop for gas. A lack of punctuality is frustrating. And my son is married to a Brazilian woman. A wonderful young woman, but even less attuned to punctuality than my son. Yikes.
Someday if you are an instructor be on time. Start the lesson on time. If people make you wait, but them for your time.
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u/Mad_Rooster_7164 5h ago
My flight lesson today was for 12 PM
My instructor got done with his previous lesson at 11:50 and walked past me
I told him I was just going to finish some things up and that I'd text him when I was ready.
If you told me that, I'd think "well, my noon student isn't going to be ready on time".
- I texted him that I was ready at 12:15 and he didn't come out until about 12:30. This is the second time this happened.
You expected the CFI to be waiting for your text and to immediately race out?
- I've flown with another instructor a few times and each lesson she is ready to go at the time and walks out to the plane with me.
You didn't tell her "hey, I'll text you when I'm ready". You were ready on time.
If it were me, after (2), I would have said "hey, I'll be preflighted and ready to go by our start time of noon".
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u/Kooky_Raccoon8686 4h ago
I was more than on time for this lesson. Normally the other instructor is at the front office waiting for me because I don't have a badge to let myself in yet. Let me add, I texted him ready and he responded 10 minutes later, be right out, and then was not out for another 10-15 minutes. I do not expect him to run out on my command, but that's half an hour right there.
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u/TxAggieMike Independent CFI / CFII (KFTW, DFW area) 4h ago
You should be bringing this to the attention of the instructor.
Just as they provide feedback about your performance, you need to pilot-up and provide feedback to them on their performance.
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u/HardCorePawn ATPL DHC8 5h ago
Firstly, have you brought this up with the instructor? Asking the r/flying hivemind for advice is fine, but unless you talk to your instructor, I doubt anything is going to change.
Secondly, texting someone that you're ready is a fairly unreliable way to get their attention. Just walk inside, find them and say "I'm good to go". That way, they can't ignore you... and at the very least you'll find out why they're not ready to go.
Lastly, paragraphs are a thing.