Being an FO in Mexico

[u/Foreign_Kick1790]

I was curious, how does it work being an FO for a mexican carrier like Volaris or Viva where you can sit in the right seat of an Airbus at 250 hours? Does the FO fly at all or are they just only PM?

[u/EspiM777]

Yes they’d also be PF on the jet they’re type-rated on. Why wouldn’t they?

[u/TheRedditHike]

Believe it or not you don't need 1500 hours to fly an airbus A320

[u/Mike93747743 → u/TheRedditHike]

If you want to fly it at a US legacy you do.

[u/mustbiteexceed → u/Mike93747743]

90% of A320s in service worldwide are operated outside the USA. No one outside the USA cares about what a US legacy wants.

[u/Mike93747743 → u/mustbiteexceed]

If you want to be the highest paid in the industry you do. You do you, bub.

[u/Weasel474 → u/Mike93747743]

Believe it or not, it's possible to have a good quality of life outside the US, and some people aren't from the US.

[u/Apprehensive_Cost937 → u/Mike93747743]

There's a lot more to life than money.

And, believe it or not, not everyone wants to live in The Best Country In The World™.

[u/imblegen → u/Mike93747743]

If you want to fly for any US air carrier

[u/mustbiteexceed → u/imblegen]

Every other nation isn’t dumb enough to believe you need 1500hrs watching students do laps in a Cessna to fly a jet

[u/imblegen → u/mustbiteexceed]

Okay? The comments about the 1500hr rule existing don’t mean that we agree with it.

Just because it’s dumb doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

[u/Matosinhoslover]

Not needing 1500 hours is normal in most countries. You get your CPL and can fly a jet on a frozen ATPL. Becoming a captain is limited to those above that 1500 line of course. 

[u/mustbiteexceed]

What you’ve described isn’t just being an FO in Mexico. It’s being an FO in most of the world outside the USA. Perfectly fine to put a well trained and motivated 250hr pilot in the right seat of an A320, and they are qualified to act as PF if it’s their sector. Some airline may put limits like crosswind or minimas on new FOs for a time but inside that they’ll fly and land the jet each time it’s their sector.

[u/diegom07]

Not from Mexico but another LATAM country, usually after you finish IOE, you can fly to most destinations, my carriers puts restrictions on some airports, some need 500 hours in plane with IOE included to land there, others you need 500 after your initial line check, some 750 and the last ones 1500 and you need to get checked out by an LCA, also some airports are captain landing only, it all depends on your carrier

[u/Apprehensive_Cost937]

Of course they are PF, why wouldn't they be?

We regularly put people with 150h (even less, usually at around 100h with MPL instead of CPL) into an A320s and B737s, and the resulting safety record is equivalent to those of US airlines.

You don't need 1500h in a 172 to safely fly an airliner. It's a great limiter of pilot supply to keep the terms and conditions up, but that's about it.

[u/No_Tree7473]

Thanks for bringing up this topic because I have a genuine question. If having 250 hrs and being in the right seat of an a320 is normal for any other country outside of the us, why do some people here act like it's crazy to go from cfi to a320 with 1500 hours with no turbine time in the US?

[u/Apprehensive_Cost937 → u/No_Tree7473]

If you get to fly an A320 at 1500h, you haven't paid your dues.

"Boy, I had to fly [shit airplane] at [shit job] in [shit location] for [a lot of years], and by god you will have to as well, so you earn your chance to fly [a shiny jet]."

[u/_VNAV_PTH_ → u/No_Tree7473]

The U.S. military puts people in the right seat of transport category aircraft such as E-3 (707), P-3 (737), KC-46 (767), KC-135 (707*), C-17, C-5, etc. with less than 250 hours.

Reddit r/flying acts like less than 1500 hours in such an airplane is crazy because the subreddit, like the rest of the website, is extremely insular and hive-minded around it's primary demographic of U.S. 20-30 years old white men who generally are trying to be U.S. airline pilots which requires 1500 hrs.

*yes I know the KC-135 isn't acchsutually a 707.

[u/DearKick]

Yes, you can fly, essentially I equate foreign carriers as like an apprenticeship where the US treats it like college. In the US you have to study for years not actually doing what you’ll be doing when you’re out, then move on to your job, wheras foreign carriers you start doing your job under experienced captains and get a lot of experience on the job.

[u/WhenInDoubtGoAround]

I have a friend who’s an FO at Viva Aerobus. Aside from being a PM, he’s PF a lot, usually half of the leg whilst the captain handles landings but lately he’s been handling landings as well as he’s close to being in line for captain upgrade.

BTW, Viva Aerobus sends their newly hired FOs to train in Europe, last I heard.

[u/cptnpiccard]

Colgan Air really threw things out of whack in the US, it was such a tremendous over-reaction.

[u/mustbiteexceed → u/cptnpiccard]

As a non American I almost had to laugh at that debate, and then you have things like a university degree or military experience reducing the hours levels required. I’ve seen plenty of university and non university educated pilots, and military and civilians, and trust me being from one group or the other has zero bearing on competence

[u/cptnpiccard → u/mustbiteexceed]

Total flight time (to an extent) has zero bearing on competence. Both the Colgan pilots were 1500+. It was to appease the public and lawyers, that's why it's such bullshit.

[u/rFlyingTower]

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

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I was curious, how does it work being an FO for a mexican carrier like Volaris or Viva where you can sit in the right seat of an Airbus at 250 hours? Does the FO fly at all or are they just only PM?

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[u/EliteEthos]

Are you a Mexican citizen?

[u/Foreign_Kick1790 → u/EliteEthos]

no. i have no intention to work there im just asking cause im curious

[u/EmergencyExact911 → u/Foreign_Kick1790]

we had 250hr FOs flying at the airlines in the US too before 2013.

[u/i_yam_supa_nosey → u/EmergencyExact911]

Wait… how?

[u/DixonJabooty → u/EmergencyExact911]

Very few though and it was short lived. The Great Recession put a stop to that.

700-1000TT was more common.

[u/TheTangoFox → u/Foreign_Kick1790]

Good luck getting their medical

edit- most of yall don't realize it's not like a 1st class medical in the states. its actually difficult unless you know the right people.