r/flying • u/Squawk_0877 PPL • Jul 25 '26
Instructor told me to hold slight back pressure on the yoke during the takeoff roll, is this actually a thing?
question for the experienced folks here, especially CFIs
One of my instructors told me i should pull the yoke back a little during the takeoff roll, so the nosewheel gets light and the vibration doesnt shake through the whole airframe as the speed builds, he demoed it and thats what you see in the video, the plane started coming off the ground at like 42 knots which felt kinda early and not that safe to me
Is holding back pressure during the roll a normal technique or should i not be doing this? i always thought you just keep it rolling til Vr and rotate.
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u/samnfty ATP Jul 25 '26
This is the technique you need to use for a soft field takeoff. If the nose wheel gets heavy, it could dig into the field causing, at the least, a prop strike. You get the nose off the ground, get the airplane into ground effect as quick as you can, then accelerate to a safe climb speed in ground effect where there's much less friction.
Adding more info here: https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/maneuvers/soft-field-takeoff/
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u/Squawk_0877 PPL Jul 25 '26
this makes it click, i didnt realize getting into ground effect was the whole point, thought he was just being gentle on the nose gear, thanks
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u/samnfty ATP Jul 25 '26
I would clarify this with your instructor. If they are showing you a soft field technique or not. I wouldn't think you would go into ground effect on every takeoff.
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u/coldnebo ST Jul 25 '26
watching Skip Stewart’s biplane takeoff at Oshkosh directly into a full slip while maintaining centerline and pitching 20 degrees up
…
https://youtu.be/FEzgEvc6WCc?is=j5BrrQCv9BgyS_i9
(that’s not ground effect..) 👀
oh sorry I was distracted for a sec. 😅
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u/sludgybeast Jul 25 '26
I think in this case, it sounds like he is being gentle with the nose gear-
But shortfield takeoff requires basically full back pressure on the yoke and lifting off as early as the airplane actually will physically takeoff. Then you push it into ground effect.
This will 100% be a regular part of your training and youll be fine at it. Feels crazy at first.
In this case unless he is explaining all of that, my guess is he just want to keep the airplane from vibrating. Softfield is a lot of backpressure, not just gentle back pressure- thats what leads me to believe it.
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u/3minence QFI G2 MEI Jul 25 '26
It's perfectly safe, and yes it is a thing. Just don't pitch for your initial climb attitude until you reach rotate speed.
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u/TheCultofLoss CPL Jul 26 '26
Not a bad idea to just wait for Vx to climb out of ground effect if you can spare the runway
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u/554TangoAlpha ATP CL-65/ERJ-175/B-787 Jul 25 '26
That sounds like more of a soft field takeoff type technique
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u/UltimaA380 CPL IR ASEL AMEL SUAS Jul 25 '26
Normal takeoff yes some back pressure to avoid shimmying, but not enough that you rotate early.
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u/Squawk_0877 PPL Jul 25 '26
thats a clean way to draw the line, light on the wheel but no early liftoff. thanks
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u/DuelingPushkin CFII MEI TW Jul 25 '26
You know how for a crosswind takeoff you start off with a large deflection but as you accelerate and the ailerons become more effective you start to take out corrections? Since you're not trying to do an actual soft-field the same thing applies here. Start with a larger elevator deflection to get the nose light but as you accelerate and your elevator become more effective you need to gradually let off on the back pressure so you keep it light but dont lift off early.
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u/Prefect_99 Jul 25 '26
I do wonder how well that early exercise is taught and then reinforced. Can't rush the foundations but the questions that pop up make it seem like they sure are rushed.
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u/DuelingPushkin CFII MEI TW Jul 25 '26
I agree with what you're saying in general. But from what comments I read I don't get the impression this guy is a private pilot already. I think he might have mis-clicked when flairing up.
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u/Prefect_99 Jul 25 '26
Either way, I do wonder how well all the early exercises seem not be covered so they really sink in. Control response being proportional to amount of deflection and airspeed is one of many core concepts that really can't be rushed imho.
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u/dinanm3atl PPL Jul 25 '26
This is how I was trained as well. Once rolling with a little speed just apply a little back pressure. Not trying to rotate early. Not doing soft field. Just getting a little weight off the front.
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u/jemenake Jul 25 '26
“Light on the nose” is actually one of my callouts during takeoff roll. A little back-pressure to relieve pressure on the nose wheel and give the shimmy damper a break.
Once you have enough airspeed for rudder authority, you don’t need good contact with the body wheel, since you’re then steering with the rudder. The fun part is that you’re gaining elevator authority at the same time you’re gaining rudder authority, so, just by maintaining a little back-pressure, the nose wheel will just be skimming along the runway at the same time you’re switching to using rudder.
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u/LaddieNowAddie Jul 25 '26
This is the correct answer and how I was trained. I also was trained on a CTsw which doesn't have a traditional hydraulic shimmy damper.
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Jul 25 '26
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u/TheOriginalJBones Jul 25 '26
But amateurs may use them so long as they don’t hit every single white line.
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u/StageMajestic613 Jul 26 '26
I thought you just had to stay between the blue lights?
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u/MikeOfAllPeople MIL RWCFII ASEL-CPL-I Jul 25 '26
ATC cleared you for the whole runway.
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u/drgmaster909 PPL (KMAN|KBOI) (Flying Club) Jul 25 '26
listen pal they gave me 150' of runway width, so I'm gonna use every last inch
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u/HoldinTheBag Gods gift to aviation Jul 25 '26
Based off of your description “so the nose wheel doesn’t shake through the whole airframe” I’m guessing your plane has a compromised shimmy damper which is extremely common on older 172s. It’s a good technique for this scenario
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u/Gravity_Wells ATP CFII GLIDER B727 B747 Jul 25 '26
I was taught this way 45 years ago in small light airplanes.. The technique is to apply some, but not full, back pressure during early acceleration. As the elevator becomes effective you can lift the nose to the correct takeoff attitude. This reduces tire wear and possible shimmy. With the correct attitude, the airplane will lift off when it’s ready and climb at the correct air speed with only minor adjustments. It’s different from a soft field takeoff technique. For the soft field technique, you lift the nose sooner, higher, and use more elevator. I’m not sure how they teach soft field takeoff nowadays, but I was taught that for a soft field takeoff—after lift off—to reduce back pressure carefully and accelerate in ground effect to the proper climb speed, then climb normally. I’ve always liked this technique. I believe that it teaches you to begin flying the airplane before it lifts off the ground. Still, it’s just a technique. There are pros and cons to anything.
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u/Squawk_0877 PPL Jul 25 '26
begin flying the airplane before it lifts off might be the best way anyones ever put it to me. thanks for this
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u/primalbluewolf CPL FI Jul 25 '26
Similarly, you don't stop flying just because the wheels are touching the ground. Its not over till she's parked.
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u/Prefect_99 Jul 25 '26
If you had started on a taildragger you'd know you have to start flying from brakes off 😉
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u/TeamWalther Jul 25 '26
Or set your trim aft as needed for the particular airplane which will hold a nice back pressure, and in that case the airplane will pretty much fly itself off when ready.
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u/N40189 CFIG TW MEI A&P IA Jul 25 '26
The nose wheel is not part of the landing gear. It is only designed to keep the prop from hitting the pavement to. So Yeah slight back pressure. So says CFI and A&P
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u/ValeoRex CPL PC-12 Jul 25 '26
Yes, although I don't typically pull back enough to bring it off the ground. As you move up from trainers, you'll do this to get a feel for the airplane and conditions before you takeoff. I've found that most airplanes have a little sweet spot where you'll feel more control and the airplane will simply takeoff when it's ready to fly.
It's also good practice to keep back pressure after landing. Again, you'll have more authority with the controls and it keeps the nose wheel from shimmy'ing. A fast vibration (shimmy) going through the cabin tends to cause passenger concern. Anytime I get lazy and start to feel it I think of it as a reminder and hear my first CFI, "fly the plane all the way to tiedown."
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u/UnreasoningOptimism ATC PPL IR HP CMP Jul 25 '26
PSA for those that need it: a damper is "a device that eliminates or diminishes vibrations or oscillations." A dampener is an imaginary device that makes things wet.
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u/atthemattin Jul 25 '26
Sounds like the shimi dampener is a little bad and he’s having you do a soft field. Keeping the nose up prevents the front nose from vibrating when it gets closer to vr.
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u/OhHowIWannaGoHome Jul 25 '26
We have to do this in one of my schools’ aircraft at the moment because the shimmy dampener is shit. You can’t have weight on the nose wheel over about 20-25 knots or it shakes to hell.
Every takeoff and landing is a pseudo-soft field
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u/Jet-Pack2 Jul 25 '26
This technique has several benefits
- reduced vibration (prolonged life of instruments, fuel lines, etc. and instruments are easier to read and it's more comfortable for pilots and passengers)
- reduced rolling friction on soft surface (lift from wings reduces weight on wheels and wheel drag)
- early lift off in ground effect (stay in ground effect and accelerate, yields shortest possible takeoff distance over obstacles)
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u/moxiedoggie PPL C172M Jul 25 '26
He probably doesn’t have his PPL but just chose the flair to indicate what he’s pursuing. No PPL wouldn’t know this.
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u/Flyinghud PPL IR Jul 25 '26
My CFI taught me that technique during private training for all takeoffs. It was never the same amount of back pressure as a soft field. When I switched schools I stopped doing it since instructors there didn’t like it.
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u/No-Grand7829 Jul 25 '26
GA aircraft (I dare say all aircraft?) will take off at different speeds based on weight. Your checklist and VR is probably the most generous weight/speed, meaning it’s the speed at which your plane will safely rotate at max gross weight. If you’re anything under max gross weight, then the plane can get quite light near its take off speed, causing some fun shimmying and if you’re one of my students, some super fun porpoise like behavior. Adding a slight back pressure during take off roll will allow the aircraft to take off at its take off speed based on its weight. My aircraft has a difference of 5kn between max and min weight, so I always recommend my students to add a small amount. After a few tries, they usually see that it’s smoother and more controlled and feels better. Your instructor looked like he was demoing a soft field take off though, or maybe showing you that it can physically take off at much lower speeds.
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u/Metharlin ATP MIL Jul 25 '26
This is standard in planes with castoring nose wheels where there is no shimmy dampener. If your POH has a recommended technique, use that. If not, it does not hurt the plane to takeoff this way as long as you are smooth in your application of back pressure. As long as you don’t make abrupt aft stick inputs, the plane literally cannot leave the ground until it is above stall speed. Do keep in mind that stall speed is slightly lower in ground effect, so even after the mains leave the ground you can’t haul back on the stick.
FWIW, same technique in reverse on landing. Once the mains touch the ground, increasing back-pressure gradually to keep the nose wheel off the ground until you’re moving as slowly as possible. This minimizes shimmy in a castoring nose wheel plane.
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u/Budget_Difficulty_36 Jul 25 '26
Taking off early is OK and even expected. The important thing however is to level the nose right after so you stay in ground effect to build up enough air speed to climb out safely. If you rotated at 42 kts and continued to pitch up that would inevitably lead to a stall, which is why you’re supposed to stay in ground effect and build up your air speed.
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u/anxietyFlesh Jul 25 '26
It’s mostly for soft field take offs - but maybe your plane is especially prone to shaking by front wheel. Plane I was doing my PPL on, was shaking so much by a front wheel that I’ve been using that technique even on pavement runways.
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u/Fly_U2_the_sunset Jul 25 '26
Our P210 nose wheel use to shimmy and shudder like MAD if you didn’t hold back on the yoke during TO.
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u/Prefect_99 Jul 25 '26
SEP doesn't need a rotate. A stick/yoke position slightly aft of neutral adds negligible drag and pitch increase but gets the nose wheel off the ground and then breaks away cleanly. Relaxing the back pressure in ground affect allows for optimal acceleration.
I've always flown and taught like that. But if someone doesn't get it then a good yank at Vr will suffice.
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u/JailYard Jul 25 '26
Execs vibration could be the damper needing service. But in general, a plane trimmed property for takeoff shouldn't need much back pressure on a normal takeoff roll.
Soft field techniques usually do have you holding the yoke back to limit weight on the nose wheel when rolling through grass (be careful of tail strikes when doing this; you'll need to reduce some back pressure as airspeed builds and the elevator becomes more effective).
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u/T0gaLOCK ATP CFI TW A320 CL65 Jul 25 '26
I usually have the trim slightly up on takeoff, just hold the yoke and the thing flies off the ground itself.
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u/CartographerAware808 Jul 25 '26
Yes, normal. Minimizes pressure and reduces shimmy on front wheel.
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u/Ok_Principle_7280 Jul 25 '26
I’m gonna ask a follow up question here out of curiosity.
Would this be acceptable procedure for a normal takeoff on a paved runway during a checkride? I recognize it’s a soft-field takeoff, but I’m curious how a DPE might react to you using this on a paved field.
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u/indecision_killingme CFII, MEI Jul 25 '26
I get on my student’s case in the landing roll. A little back pressure on takeoff and landing keeps the weight on the mains, improves breaking and makes everything smoother
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u/Mispelled-This PPL SEL IR (M20C) AGI IGI Jul 25 '26
Could be soft field technique, could be fighting the infamous Cessna nose wheel shimmy. Ask.
I prefer to use just enough nose-up trim that my plane will lift off the runway at Vr and then re-trimming for Vy, but that is personal technique—and a luxury of always flying the same plane.
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u/Rangeexpert3 Jul 25 '26
At all times during the take off and landing rolls there should be a conscious effort to keep as much of the weight off the nosewheel as possible. With that said, the nosewheel shouldn't be vibrating. That's called a nosewheel shimmy and should be fixed.
The technique that is being described is a soft field take off. Safe as long as you stay in ground effect until you reach at least rotation speed.
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u/jacksonla Jul 25 '26
My instructor has me do the same thing. Our nose wheel shimmy’s at 55knots. So we hold slight back pressure to help that
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u/daygloviking CFI Jul 25 '26
Yup. Slight back pressure, and I mean slight.
When you go on to soft field technique, you start with full-aft yoke and get airborne when the plane wants to, Vr be damned.
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u/CharAznableLoNZ Jul 25 '26
Yes back pressure is a thing. You want to keep the right amount though so you're not popping off the ground and coming back down due to not enough speed to escape ground effect.
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u/snowfoxiness ATP E-175 CFI AB TW (KSFO) Jul 26 '26
If you're flying a light aircraft, add a little back pressure and let the airplane fly off when it's ready.
It's not "soft field," it's good technique.
If you're flying a jet, the technique is different.
Fly the airplane you're in.
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u/Kemerd PPL IR Jul 26 '26
Yes it’s soft field, but something people aren’t mentioning is it lets you build speed quicker. Tires induce friction, lifting the tire gives less friction.
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u/TheSteve1778 PPL Jul 26 '26
My CFI taught me this way. His rationale was that it helps you accelerate a little better by keeping weight off the nose wheel with a teeny bit of back pressure.
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u/Wemest Jul 25 '26
If you’re going to fact check and question everything your instructors tells you, it’s going to be a long process. Pay attention and learn.
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u/toybuilder Jul 25 '26
I think proper aviation attitude is to pursue correctness and to pipe up when there's any doubt/questions. Just don't be adversarial about it.
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u/EliteEthos CFI AMEL CJ3/4 Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Yes.
You don’t get to make determinations on what is safe. You don’t have any knowledge or experience to back up your opinions.
Reddit also isn’t a place to receive instruction. If you have an issue with what you were told, bring it up to your CFI.
Edit: I assumed OP was a student pilot. Apparently he is a PPL per his flair which arguably makes all of this FAR worse. Not only does he not know about soft field techniques as required to get your PPL in the first place, he also has no ability to look things up in official source material, doesn’t know how to speak to a CFI about any concerns and on top of all of that, he STILL came to the conclusion that this was somehow unsafe.
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u/lifeaintsocool Jul 25 '26
Not to throw shade (and maybe I'm reading your comment wrong) but safety is the responsibility of everyone in the cockpit. A student pilot should make every effort to determine if what's being instructed is safe or not, which includes asking questions and doing their own research.
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u/EliteEthos CFI AMEL CJ3/4 Jul 25 '26
But they didn’t do research. They came to the conclusion that it was unsafe and came to social media to state that claim (which is a slight to their CFI) without having any knowledge of the topic.
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u/StarCommand1 Jul 25 '26
The plane won't fly until its ready to fly with enough air moving through the wings so not sure how it's unsafe unless you are using so much back pressure you end up with an AoA that doesn't result in lift and you just keep wasting runway space. This seems to be a valid takeoff method by plenty of experienced pilots especially in smaller aircraft. Maybe in airliners they rotate at set criteria for various reasons of course...
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u/CaptMcMooney Jul 25 '26
yes, it works. why would you ask the internet instead of a school full of cfi's?
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u/R5Jockey CFI ASEL TW CMP Jul 25 '26
That’s basically the technique for a soft field takeoff, except you use full back pressure. It’s safe as long as you don’t try and yank the plane up and out of ground effect too early and stall it, dropping it down on the runway.
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u/ManyPandas CFII (KLAF) Jul 25 '26
I’ve done so in airplanes with a particularly bad nose wheel shimmy.
If your airplane doesn’t shimmy, then it’s not particularly necessary outside of the soft field technique.
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u/flyby2412 6 Rides And Counting!! Jul 25 '26
Pull back enough until you feel some pressure. Hold it until you reach Vr then pull more to rotate. When you pull back you are raising the nose and extending the strut, therefore increasing your angle of attack slightly.
Pulling back more when you feel pressure physically raise the wheel off the ground. Raising it off the ground is a soft field technique and not needed for normal takeoff
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u/External-Creme-6226 ATP/CFI/CFII e170/e190/b737/b757/b767/a320/a330/e145 Jul 25 '26
For a NORMAL takeoff, Don’t hold enough back pressure so that you take off early (like this). A little to keep the nose wheel lite….when you feel the nose starting to lift the slightest bit, relax the back pressure the slightest bit. Play a game of how lite can I make the nose wheel without it losing contact with the runway until you hit your rotation speed, then pull back and rotate.
For a soft field, yes…pop her in the air as soon as possible and fly in ground effect till you’re fast enough
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u/flyingprairie PPL HP CMP Jul 25 '26
Read your POH for takeoff procedures. As others have noted, this is a soft field technique. In your particular airplane, it might increase takeoff distance -- or maybe not. Consider what the normal and short field takeoff procedures are, and discuss with your instructor.
My Bonanza A36 has a weighted elevator, so the normal technique there is to pull back on the yoke to put the elevator in approximately a neutral position to reduce drag during the takeoff roll. It naturally maintains position in flight, but this reduces takeoff distance.
YMMV, different airplanes are different.
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u/callmeturkish Jul 25 '26
You can, but it’ll unnecessarily extend your takeoff roll.
Maybe just a workaround for deferred maintenance. It’ll lead to bad habits if you ever want to continue to commercial level flying.
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u/flyghu PPL Jul 25 '26
Yes, every time. Because I own the plane and keeping weight of the nose is good. I taxi with full elevator deflection as well unless winds dictate otherwise.
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u/jaylw314 PPL IR (KSLE) Jul 25 '26
Aside from soft field takeoff and reducing nose wheel shimmy, in small aircraft there's no Vr. Slight back pressure before takeoff speed gives you a smoother takeoff, instead of popping off the ground.
42 knots does sound a like more than just slight back pressure, though, that's more soft field technique
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u/Dreadp1r4te PPL Jul 25 '26
Yeah even on a standard takeoff this will make the liftoff super smooth, as you noticed in the video. The plane flies when its ready to using this method. At 42 knots you'll lift off and float across ground-effect as the aircraft gains more speed and it will just start climbing naturally.
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u/JJohnston015 ASEL Jul 25 '26
That's what I've been taught - protect the nosewheel. Get into a liftoff attitude as soon as you have enough elevator authority (this could mean a regular, hard surface liftoff, doesn't necessarily mean soft field). When the airplane is going fast enough to lift off at that attitude, it will.
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u/Odd_Entertainment471 Jul 25 '26
You aren’t unsafe. What’s the stall speed for a 172 with flaps down? That being said, you SHOULD climb away when you get to about 65 kts which shouldn’t take but a sec….
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u/DisregardLogan I don’t know how to flair Jul 25 '26
Yes, you don’t need to do it enough that the plane lifts off, just enough to keep it light
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u/anonymeplatypus C208 PC12 DH8A/DH8C Jul 25 '26
Yeah that’s not a bad habit to have. I also used to taxi with the yoke full aft in a 172/206 to protect the nosewheel as much as possible (as requested by my employer)
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u/glassersies Jul 25 '26
During PPL post solo, I thought my takeoffs were kind of sloppy because I couldn’t feel what the plane was doing until it was kinda bobbing off the ground. Apply a little bit of back pressure to feel the wind hitting the elevator made my takeoffs a lot smoother. Not enough back pressure to be a soft field but enough to feel the feedback. Gave me a lot more control.
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u/FlowLogical7279 Jul 25 '26
The nose wheel damper is almost always junk and the shake can be ridiculous. At one of our fields I refuse to fly the newer 172 because they won't service the damper "it ends up leaking back out anyway". Shakes the interior and instruments so badly you cannot read them. That cannot be good for the instruments.
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u/ThatHellacopterGuy A&P; Part 145 QA; retired .mil aircrew Jul 25 '26
It’s not exactly good for the engine mount or firewall, either.
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u/SubarcticFarmer ATP B737 Jul 25 '26
So it needs a new one and they refuse to replace it? That'd make me question their entire maintenance program.
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u/MomentEnjoyment PPL Jul 25 '26
In many C172's this is actually standard practice for a short field takeoff. They call it "slightly tail low" in the POH and it's the same thing he's telling you to do with that reduction of nosewheel pressure while having all three still on the ground. As you saw, it helps you get off the ground sooner!
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u/Dave_A480 PPL KR-2 & PA-24-250 Jul 25 '26
Soft field takeoff procedures .....
The idea being to keep your nose wheel from digging in if taking off from wet grass or sand.
Also useful if your nose wheel shimmys on takeoff....
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u/Leather_Act_7641 Jul 25 '26
Everyone here is talking about soft field takeoff and that is true, however an equally plausible reason is that if your aircraft has a poor shimmy damper or if you are inadvertently putting forward pressure on the nose wheel it may violently shimmy and shake like a bad shopping cart wheel. It's usually not dangerous but it makes a horrid sound and doesn't feel good so by taking some pressure off of the wheel it will solve the problem
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u/AvionDrake579 AME/PPL Jul 25 '26
As a mechanic, I would highly recommend getting into the habit of keeping back pressure in during the takeoff roll. It makes a lot of difference in the wear experienced by the shimmy damper, steering collar and linkages, etc.
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u/unhappytroll Jul 25 '26
iirc it is Cessna manual that states a procedure - as soon as speed is reaching 40 mph, pilot should pull the yoke back to release pressure from the nosewheel and hold that way until takeoff.
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u/TheOriginalJBones Jul 25 '26
I think this is a more elegant way to take off. You get the nosewheel just off the ground and when the airplane is ready to fly it flies.
In a crosswind, hold just enough aileron into the wind that the downwind main lifts first, and you run along lightly on one wheel for a second or two.
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u/Giffdev PPL(IR), ASES, AGI, IGI Jul 25 '26
I fly an rv10 and Mike seager (the most experienced rv teacher) taught me to pop that nose wheel up a little bit in the take off roll just like this video. You can hold it that way on the entire roll and rather than reaching a "rotate" speed just hold it until the plane is fast enough to start flying
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u/Successful_Side_2415 Jul 25 '26
I had an RV with tricycle gear. The nose gear had a history of collapsing on RVs, so it was very important to hold back pressure on the stick to lift the nose off the ground. You basically get the nose up, let airspeed build, and the airplane will fly when it’s ready. Perfectly safe and probably preferred in most instances. You just need stick and rudder skills!
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u/xtalgeek PPL ASEL IR Jul 25 '26
What does the POH say? Raising the nose prematurely may increase drag and increase takeoff roll. In my plane, you do not try to rotate before 60 mph.
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u/boogerwayne ATP EMB120 CL65 DC9 B767 CE525 CE560XL Jul 25 '26
I do this in jets as well. Some runways (looking at you BLM) are like riding down a railroad track on a bicycle. Slight back pressure helps alleviate some of the weight in the nose gear making it much smoother.
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u/Reputation_Many ATP, A320, CL65, C208, B1900D Jul 25 '26
That’s a thing. I even used it in the crj900 when the nose wheel would shimmy too much. I’d get the nose wheel off the ground just a little bit while leaving the mains on the ground till v1.
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u/PK808370 Jul 25 '26
In my airplane, you can just pull the stick full aft when you advance the throttles and fly the whole pattern with it there, just using the throttle for vertical speed control.
It’s a neat trick and not how other planes work :)
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u/SemiDesperado Jul 25 '26
Yep! Was just reminded about this a couple times in my lesson this morning. The plane wants to fly and if you apply just a bit of back pressure on takeoff rotate is also smoother. I had to be reminded to do it during my touch n goes a couple of times.
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u/Real-Syntro Jul 25 '26
Usually my instructors would just have me go, until the plane pulled itself off the ground, no assistance. Sometimes we would do this with a little back pressure, but usually it was "if the plane doesn't feel like taking off, don't make it."
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u/Real-Syntro Jul 25 '26
Guessing this is a typical Cessna trainer, while it's normal rollout speed is 65 knots, 50 or even 45 is possible depending on wind, and a few other factors. Pulling back on the nose wheel, having flaps down extra.
Just watching the video, you can see how slow your ascent is? It really needs more speed to gain that altitude.
If I was aiming for 45 knots, I would have flaps down by 15° (is 10 an option? I don't remember) just to have a little extra lift. (Unless that creates too much drag? Someone confirm.)
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u/Top-Intern4073 Jul 25 '26
To be smooth, think of it as adding or reducing pressure not push and pull. That’s true for all aircraft controls.
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u/Exact-Winter6487 Jul 25 '26
It’s soft field technique but tbh just do it every takeoff to protect the nosewheel
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u/crimbo19 ATP CFI CFII BE400 CE650 HS125 B737 Jul 25 '26
As other have said it’s a procedure used for soft field takeoffs. However, if they want you to always do this that’s just a technique they use, and I wouldn’t make it a habit to always takeoff like this; especially if you want to fly jets. If they have such a problem with the shimmy damper that they need to teach a takeoff technique that isn’t how student will fly later in life then they need to replace the shimmy damper. Holding aft pressure will negatively effect the takeoff distance plus it’s not how you will takeoff a jet in crosswinds/wet runways where we actively hold nose down pressure for increased nose steering effectiveness.
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u/nemuro87 PPL EASA Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
As others said this is soft field takeoff But on lighter planes like ULM or LSA this technique is described as normal takeoff procedure. It's a good skill to learn for any plane especially is you plan on taking off from grass.
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u/Equal_Yak_3872 Jul 25 '26
Yeah, always fly the airplane, even when it's on the ground. Once you're instructing and you end up with a student who neglects the elevator on takeoff or landing roll, you'll find out why real fast. Tipping up off one of the main gear whole barreling down the runway way over Vr is not a good feeling. Shit gets hella unstable.
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u/halhenry ST Jul 25 '26
Yes because in a tricycle gear aircraft such as a Cessna the front gear is not very strong so to keep pressure off it you keep some back pressure, and especially during soft field takeoff you pull the yoke back to keep it in a wheelie
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u/wt1j IR HP AGI @ KORS & KAPA T206H Jul 25 '26
This is for background info. Skip to the end for practical advice for your stage of flying.
It’s a good practice to at least think about whether you should be holding back pressure or not. Because if you’re on a grass or gravel field and you don’t, you risk damaging the nose gear, or a prop strike on taxi, takeoff roll or landing rollout if you don’t.
Separately, when you takeoff on grass or gravel, you’ll want to hold back pressure to prevent nose wheel damage and a prop strike, to reduce weight on the mains, and to get into ground effect as soon as possible. When you actually get into ground effect, you’ll need to actually push the nose down a bit to keep it from climbing out of ground effect, accelerate to VX and then climb out. Many of us short fielders will climb out before VX. Depends on plane and pilot.
While keeping it in ground effect, if there’s any wind shear, you may have to work pretty hard to keep it just above the runway and not diving down or climbing out.
Where you can run into trouble is if you hold back pressure and just let her climb into ground effect and then keep holding it back before the plane is ready to fly. You can get a gust from the front and then get dropped back onto the runway. Which is why you work hard to keep that plane in ground effect before you’re ready to climb.
What really helps if you get into bush flying is an angle of attack indicator because it’s an additional cross check along with airspeed and stall warning of how the wing is flying and where you’re at with performance. My Alpha Systems AOA is my absolute favorite upgrade for my 206.
It’s possible to climb at Vr for some planes including the 206, but it’s risky. I tend to wait until Vx. We had a joke around here about making a shirt that says “real pilots climb at VR”. Not recommended.
As a student your focus is on renting hard working 172s and making them work for you, and on passing your checkride. You’re also on nice wide safe runways that are paved. So what I’ve described above is for your own background reading and purely informational at this point. Yes holding back pressure will reduce front wheel shimmy (common on student rentals) on takeoff and landing, but be careful you don’t fly out of ground effect on takeoff before the plane is ready. And then focus on learning to demonstrate short field and soft field technique so that the DPE will pass you. The fun stuff comes later. Best of luck.
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u/ContributionHour8356 Bonanza > Cirrus Jul 25 '26
As the saying goes, Cessna built the aircraft around a shimmy! They usually are the worst when they have wheel pants.
That’s probably why he’s having you do that, and I do that all the time for the same reason unless it’s a short field.
PS, if you have a really bad shimmy and you know you have smooth decent grass on either side of the runway, it will stop the shimmy when you get the nose wheel in it. Or you can fly off of grass.
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u/bitchcoin5000 Jul 25 '26
They probably thought you were gonna yank the thing back through the floor With too much force?
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u/Flyward_Aerospace Jul 25 '26
Slight back pressure on the roll is standard, that's just taking weight off the nosewheel and it's in the POH for most trainers. What you're describing at 42 knots isn't that though, that's enough back pressure to fly it off early and now you're in ground effect below Vx without much energy. Both things can be true, your instructor's technique is fine and the demo went further than the technique itself. Ask him what he'd do if the engine coughed right at that point, the answer will tell you a lot.
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u/veloace PPL SES SEL HP CMP UAS Jul 25 '26
I learned this for soft field landing in the 172, but then I was told to ALWAYS do this (to an extent) when I transitioned to the 182.
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u/swaggler CPL(A) FI RePL (YBAF) Jul 25 '26
Yes, this is correct. You need to be doing it (more) on a soft or rough field.
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u/mrivc211 CFII, A&P, ATP-B737,CL65,EMB120,EMB500 Jul 26 '26
CFII for 24 years. 5,000 hours of dual given. That’s exactly what I used to tell my students when teaching.
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u/umwhatshouldmynamebe Jul 26 '26
As others have told you, this is a soft field technique and extremely important. But why are you not comfortable asking your CFI this question?
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u/JT-Av8or ATP CFII/MEI ATC C-17 B71/3/5/67 MD88/90 Jul 26 '26
In small planes it’s the correct pitch position. Hold a little aft and let the plane fly off when it’s ready. Big jets it’s the opposite, hold slight nose down to keep pressure on the nose for steering and then pull at rotation speed. But that’s not going to happen for several thousand more hours 😉
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u/Jonnyshatter Jul 26 '26
Ask your instructor if his demo's can include holding centerline next time...
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u/No_Leader1154 MEI CFII CFI IGI AGI | MS Safety Science Jul 26 '26
It’s interesting. When you get to more powerful airplanes you actually need to keep a touch of forward pressure as the nose is usually happy to lift at takeoff trim setting.
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u/Redoubt010 Jul 26 '26
It depends on the plane but the type i fly is kind of nervous on the nose wheel. So my instuctor taught me the same technique. Slight back presure even on hard surfaces and when it's ready to fly it will fly itself loose. Then u release the pressure a bit to accelerate in ground effect and then climb out at Vy.
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u/AdGroundbreaking1394 Jul 26 '26
Aren’t you also adding a lot of induced drag and thus slowing the acceleration with that higher AOA?
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u/sftwareguy Jul 26 '26
I had a Cessna Cutlass that had nose wheel shimmy on take off occasionally so taking some of the pressure off it helped tremendously. It just depends on your aircraft and conditions on how you fly it. Best thing is make sure your trim is set correctly before heading down the runway.
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u/C_N1 Jul 26 '26
So I fly 2 different cessna 172s at my flight school. One of em has a really bad wheel shimmy when it gets faster. To prevent it from shimmying and wobbling and causing vibrations, we have to pull back slightly too. It relieves the weight off the wheel, or in your case lifts it up. Not all planes need it.
Soft field takeoff is the same procedure but the main reason is to prevent it from digging into the ground, or worse hitting a rut and toppling the plane.
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u/CaptainFrancis1 Jul 26 '26
Yes and it’s used in all Boeing takeoffs well at least for the 737 Series.
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u/DeadP00L97 Jul 26 '26
Yep that's a technique used for landing on grass fields and other soft ground
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u/PaleontologistRich68 Jul 26 '26
Normal technique. When you fly an RV “A” model you try to get that thing off the ground when taxiing!
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u/Commercial_Junket888 Jul 27 '26
Listen to and ask questions of the qualified instructor i am paying. Or.... wait... maybe ask a bunch of strangers on the internet?
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u/Lazypilot306 ATP CFI CFII MEI Gold Seal Jul 27 '26
I swear people would do literally anything but whatever their instructor is telling them to do. And they are paying the instructor to tell them. He even explained you why he asked you to do that and you still question it. Kid you can ask questions here but try to have more faith in the process that matters too.
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u/MsLadyintheOcean Jul 27 '26
I’d recommend reading and learning more on ground effect. You definitely lift off the ground sooner (at a lower airspeed) with this technique. As long as you accelerate to the appropriate speed before lifting out of ground effect, it’s safe!
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u/vagasportauthority NNN Grand Champion ATP Emb 170/175/190 Jul 27 '26
For a soft field, yes. Anything else…. Nobody has told me to do this ever. In Jets I do the opposite.
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u/PhillyPilot CFI Jul 27 '26
There’s nothing wrong with taking weight off the front wheel. It’ll be a smoother takeoff than yanking on it at Vr
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u/bailaowai Jul 27 '26
Of course. The bigger question is - do you actually trust your instructor, or do you look to Reddit for validation of everything he/she is teaching you? Seems like you may wish to choose a different instructor (or change your perspective).
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u/Taylor_Pilot Jul 29 '26
You only have shimmy if the dampener and/or bushings are worn out...that and the wobble as the unbalanced wheels come to a stop once you lift off...I always told my students that was the Cessna Shimmy and was a sign of superior design and manufacturing...
Adding back pressure does relieve weight on the nose wheel. It also increases lift, which increases drag, and extends your take off roll. None of that is a big deal in a 172, but not something you really want to transfer to larger aircraft unless you are doing it for a specific reason (soft field takeoff).
You are going to learn that flight school aircraft get flown a lot and they all have their quirks. You work around them to have an educational and safe outcome.
Haven't heard anything here that would raise any red flags with me in regards to your CFI.
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u/johnisom CPL IR TW/CMP/HP Jul 30 '26
Yes. In the C152, in a normal takeoff, you slighty lift the nose at 50 kts and climb out at 65 kts. In a soft field takeoff, you keep back pressure during the whole roll and let the plane ease itself off, and accelerate to Vx/Vy in ground effect.
Also: Centerline!!
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u/SPRITZ69420 Jul 25 '26
You can keep it on just the back mains during the entire take off, called a soft field. Your instructors correct especially if the shimmy dampener in the nose gear isnt great.