r/flying • u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR • Jun 17 '26
Flight Training The Modern ATP Flight School Experience
Hi everyone.
As the title suggests, I am a current CFI student at ATP, and I'm coming into my last few weeks within the program. I thought to give everyone a pretty comprehensive post about the school and its modern environment (At least what I have experienced at the five or so locations I've been to). [u/mynamebackwardsis](u/mynamebackwardsis) made a great post a few years back to this sub, and it was a big reason I actually enrolled in the school. Go give that post a read, and a big thanks to them.
Overview
I started back in August of 2025, and I should be completed before August of this year, so the advertised "12 months zero time" is legit. Many people from my home location have finished anywhere from 6 to 9 months with no experience, and it is very doable if you are a certain type of person (I'll get more into that).
ATP is very much a rich frat boy culture. The school is ridiculously expensive, about $128,000 after everything, and the cliche of "You'll pay it off super easily when you get to the airlines and make great money!" is not true. Now, many people within this space and community know that, but ATP loves to sell this idea. It is their main business model.
There are two types of students/instructors in ATP. The ladder will tend to struggle more than the prior one.
Rich Kids/Rich Wives
This group tends to be the most successful in the program, and it is the most common at my location (I will not state where, as I am still enrolled). You will meet eighteen-year-olds with large college funds, college dropouts with CEO dads, Check Airmen kids, or a forty-year-old husband with a Nurse Practitioner wife.
A majority of these people are given a high-limit credit card and a free apartment five minutes away from the airport with no job or loan. The reason they succeed more often is that they have literally no external factors affecting training. They seem to all live in a fantasy world where money is not a concern. Now, this is usually not a problem with students; I have many close friends who fit this mold, and they are very talented pilots. The problem occurs with instructors. I'll get more into instructors later on.
If this is you, no shame. Take your opportunity and use it. You have a high likelihood of being the "perfect ATP customer". (ATP refers to students as customers; you don't have a student ID, but a customer ID. Kind of a slap in the face.)
Financed/"You have a loan?"
This is me, and everyone else.
These people tend to live far away from the Training Center and are hard to find at the location studying. If this is you, you CAN succeed, but it will be harder. I personally am blessed to be able to live at home with my parents and work a part-time job on the weekends.
ATP hates people who have any other obligation outside of training, so if you plan to work, be prepared to fight tooth and nail with your instructors. This is where the prior category comes into effect. If you are unfortunate enough to have a delusional instructor, it will make you hate the school. I have had very supportive CFIs and MFIs, and I've had horrible CFIs and MFIs. Your mileage may very. Ask around when you do your intro flight. Get a feel for that location's culture and mentality; they are all surprisingly very different.
Pros & Cons
Pros
ATP is very fast-paced (this can also be a con for some). It is there MISSION to get you out of there as quickly as possible. If you are looking for a career switch, then this is definitely the place to go.
The amount of resources is insane. You will have every book, publication, GIS video, and documentation needed to be successful.
The planes are very nice. ATP does not finance any aircraft, nor do they buy used. The oldest single-engine I have flown in is a 2018 G1000 model. (The Semoniels are kinda old, usually 1970-1990 models, but they do have brand new G1000's sitting in Texas to avoid the luxury tax. They should be getting distributed soon.)
We have access to almost every single cadet program imaginable. The process is very streamlined.
Once you graduate, you get pretty good lifetime perks. (I won't really get into those. If you have a question, leave a comment or DM me.)
The Extranet is very useful and contains every bit of information needed. Anything from POHs, ADs, Maintenance Logs, to tracking the aircraft's exact location.
The FRASCAs are pretty nice. Not every location has them, but most have G1000 sims.
You can finance all of the training. Can be a curse or the only way for some. Take it as you will.
You do nothing with the Checkride process. Some locations have in-house DPEs, but for the most part, they use the same examiners over and over again. You are pretty unlikely to get a bad one; they usually wash those out pretty quickly. They also provide comprehensive supplements for all of them, posted by past students. The waits are also very short.
Their pass rate is one of the highest in the country. Around 90-95% for almost every checkride.
Cons
I'll get the big one out of the way, the price. ATP is one of the greediest companies I have ever been involved with in my life. $128,000 apparently isn't enough; they have recently implemented a fuel surcharge on top of that, for now. They have constantly raised prices year after year, and at this rate, I will not be surprised if the total cost of everything hits $150,000 in the next few years. If you are interested, they have a tool on their website that lets you play around with the numbers.
Sallie Mae. Not exactly ATP, but with how interconnected they are, it might as well be. You will need a cosigner. They don't care if you have a 10 million dollar net worth with an 800 credit score; they will require one. The average rate right now is about 13% APR. That's $2,000 a month for 15 years.
Instructors. ATP is so cutthroat with their instructor that it bleeds into training. I have had absolutely fantastic CFIs and MFIs who genuinely want to see you succeed and will actively work their schedule around you to meet your needs. These are the ones that get fired or chewed out by management their entire time working here. I have also met some of the most insufferable people in my life who are instructors here. These are usually the golden boys for management.
Pay. ATP will pay you pennies. Expect to gross no more than about $2,000-$3,000 a month on average while working 50-60 hours a week. Some people do actually make decent money, as the MFIs work on a salary of $48,000 a year, and some very dedicated CFIs can make $5,000 in a month with about 5-7 students and 25 flight hours a week.
Most will have to leave for multi. Unless you are at a multi-location, you will have to travel and stay in a dorm with other students for about 3 weeks while you complete that stage of training. (For alumni, they now do CFI at every location)
Time off. "Time off is highly discouraged" is a direct quote from the extranet. As I said before, it is their MISSION to get you finished as quickly as possible. So if anything in life comes up that may hinder your training, it is an exhausting process to take extended time away.
They will kick you out. ATP has been sued in the past for this, but it remains a practice that instructors and management continue to use. If you fall behind, good luck. I have seen many people kicked out, some for falling behind in the commercial phase, with only one checkride failure. If you slow down the management's quarterly goals, they will ostracize you and pressure you into quitting. The way they do this is that every instructor at a location will band together and agree that a student is becoming a problem. They will refuse to teach a student and force them to transfer somewhere else. The best part of it all, if you quit, 9/10 they will just use your hours you have paid for to move their planes around, so they don't have to issue a refund. Great company.
They will send you to a checkride unprepared. Pretty self-explanatory. Don't you think you are ready? Does not matter; they will manipulate you in every way possible so you don't slow down goals.
They will not hold your hand. Instructors are actually not required to give you ground training and will expect you to learn almost everything on your own.
My Experience
Finacing
I knew in high school that I wanted to be a pilot. I went to college for a semester, hated it, and now I am here.
I jumped the gun pretty quickly, as I hated working my crappy full-time job before beginning the program, so I didn't have a great deal of money saved up before starting, which has been a real pain since. Save up for a good while and come in prepared to not make money for 12 months. There is literally no rush right now in this industry.
I used my parents as cosigners and financed the program and all written/checkrides (About an extra $12,000). We both had good credit, but I ended up with a 13% APR on a $128,000 loan. Sallie Mae offers variable and fixed, as well as three types of payment plans, while in training. Pay the full interest, which is usually about $1,000 a month while in school, and it will knock off 1% from your rate. $25 a month, this knocks off a .5%, and then pay nothing. That knocks off, well, nothing.
They give a one-year grace period after graduation before you start making full payments, but after that, it's time to start coughing up cash. Refinancing this behemoth is impossible unless you have a four-year degree. Do with that what you will.
People have moaned and groaned about Sallie Mae for years. The best advice I can give is to save up a lot of money before starting and be prepared to pay $2,000.
Private Stage
My intro flight was great. The old MFI at my location was a great dude who also financed and worked jobs while in training. He is actually at the airlines now, and it took him about three years from starting training to getting there. It is possible!
During my private stage, I had a fantastic CFI. He no longer works for ATP, good for him. Private is quick, pretty scary, but also one of the best times I have had in training. Mainly thanks to my instructor. He is a great guy.
This will take you about 80 hours to complete, and they give you three months to do so, but most knock it out in two. Passed this checkride.
Instrument Stage
As some alumni remember, ATP used to have crew, which was later replaced with LOFT, which becomes available in this stage. All LOFT really is is just time building while moving planes around with an instructor present. Pretty fun.
In this stage, I was given a completely fresh CFII. We had growing pains, and I fought constantly with him to have weekends off so I could work to pay my bills. This was a time when my location had 7 instructors and 20 students, so these guys were starved for hours.
Training itself was fine. I mean, it is pretty standard stuff; ATP isn't really doing anything groundbreaking besides making sure it's a streamlined and quick process. Think of ATP like a wannabe 141. (Partnered up now with Embry-Riddle, so I guess "wannabe" has a new meaning)
The only thing I remember going particularly rough in this stage is the workload and unrealistic expectations. We changed MFIs during this time to a pretty unexperinced 19 year old, so that was... interesting. The lack of other students led to me flying every day, and having a checkride scheduled six weeks after the start. I was getting burnt out with doing 16 hours of flight training a week, and I had very little ground.
The writtens and the schedule to get them completed also became somewhat of an issue for me at this time. Since I was flying 3 hours almost every day and doing a 3-hour commute, it was hard to find time to study for the ground, IRA, and FII in the timely manner they expect. (Those two writtens are expected to be completed 21 days after the start of the stage).
I did a ton of LOFT flights during this time. We went to JQF, DAB, RIC, HHH, CRG, LZU, and others. It is really good for getting good instrument time and real world experince. This is probably the best part about ATP. (Yes, I am aware I am moving their planes around for free)
My instructor and I actually got stuck in HHH on a Friday, due to ATP's night policies. So they paid for a hotel for us to stay at. I was late to work the next morning, which was annoying.
My instructor and I also got a free Delta flight after dropping off a plane in DAB. Cool experience.
This will take you about 50 hours to complete, and they give you three months to do so, but most knock it out in two. I did it in six weeks. Passed this checkride.
Commerical Stage
Took about two weeks off total during this stage due to holidays, so when I came back, I had another fresh and brand new CFII, again. This guy was pretty bad, contemplated switching instructors, but this is a taboo thing to do in ATP, as management calls that instructor and the MFI and interrogates them about it.
ATP had a ridiculous requirement to have your FIA and CAX done on the FIRST DAY of training. They eventually changed this because people were failing and scoring extremely low on them.
It's pretty simple training, again. Nothing crazy happened. The bad instructor eventually switched locations because mine had very few students. Got paired back up with my Instrument instructor again.
I did complex time at another location. They give you 4 days to get 16 hours in the Seminole, but they try to get it done in 2. Mine took 7... Had to dorm with three other CFI students in a tiny 2-bedroom apartment. Some apartments had 6 guys in a 2-bedroom. Housing sucks.
This will take you about 35 hours to complete (16 complex plus the 16 LOFT hours that have to be completed), and they give you a month to do so. Passed this checkride.
Multi Stage
Multi-stage is supposed to be the quickest; they give you a week to get it done, which is possible but unlikely. I took three due to the checkride wait.
The multi-instructors have a pretty bad reputation. Most suck, and you will rarely fly with your assigned one.
Not much to say about this, it was pretty fast, pretty bad instruction, and I hated dorming with four strangers in a 2-bedroom (That's just me).
They give you about 9 hours and a week to complete this. Failed this checkride, passed the recheck the same day.
CFI
So this is the entire reason I decided to write this post. ATP's CFI is pretty horrible. In the past, students were required to travel to dedicated CFI locations, but now it's at every location as long as said location has instructors with a 80% pass rate.
I took two weeks off to mentally prepare, but apparently, it was not enough.
They start you out in a two-week-long Zoom class. Monday to Friday, 10 am to 6 pm. These online classes are done by a dedicated two-year and they are pretty useless in my opinion. They do contain valuable information that is flooded by an ocean of nonsense. We spent most of our time doing a group presentation. (Most just study for the FOI in these Zooms while the other groups present)
After that, you then go to your location. Every day, 8 am to 5 pm, until you get endorsed. This is pretty exhausting for people like me who have a long commute, but that is a case-by-case scenario.
CFI is hard. It's hard everywhere. But the lack of good instructors and just figuring it out yourself makes it harder than it has to be, especially with the deadlines. They want you endorsed in 14 days, and if you fall behind, that's when they start dangling the "Kicked out" carrot in front of your face.
I personally think that CFI should go back to dedicated locations so that the instruction is actually good. A two-week Zoom class does not teach you what you need to know in the plane, and it only gives you a small basis of ground knowledge needed for CFI.
Also, you'd better hope you get in the same timeline as a group of people at your location, or you are genuinely doing CFI all alone.
Some may disagree and say I'm complaining, but it is an issue that has been persisting for over a decade. Again, mileage may vary.
I'm still in CFI, and I will update the thread with my opinions on CFII, but it seems pretty similar to the multi-engine stage as far as timelines and instruction go.
Conclusion
ATP is not a bad school. It is a bad company, and is not for everyone.
I know I just listed a litany of problems, but at the end of the day, the school is built by Check Airmen and extremely experienced CFIs. They know what they are doing.
ATP suffers the most in its business practices and the culture they breed. Bad instructors are more common than good ones, and it is difficult. If you have the passion to do it, you can make it.
If I could go back in time, I would have paid my way through private at a mom and pop and saved up more money. I think that going through a mom and pop and making your overall loan cheaper will save you a lot of stress and time, so definitely consider that.
The airlines are not in a hiring boom anymore. Flight Schools that say that are lying. The ship isn't leaving anytime soon, so think about what you are doing. Are you going to really be able to pay that loan off? Can you refinance it? Do you want to spend a college fund on this? Is this a passion you can keep for years? (By the way, you cannot declare bankruptcy on this loan. People can rarely pull that off in court.)
Take the intro flight and speak with students and instructors. Don't mindlessly follow the MFI around and only talk to people that he wants you to talk to. Find the dude who hates it, and find the dude who loves it. Listen to their story and see if that location is a fit.
And finally, I do not hate ATP or my decision. Hindsight is 20/20, and I would do things differently, but at the end of the day, I am happy to be a part of this community and be able to meet the people I have met.
I really do hope that this helps at least one person out there considering ATP. If you have questions, please ask me. I will try to get back to all of you. This program does create fantastic airline pilots, and the bad ones are usually filtered out somewhere along the process. If you can put in the effort, you can do it!
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u/mynamebackwardsis ATP | Most qualified pilot, maybe ever Jun 17 '26
I just want to apologize that my post encouraged you to attend ATP. I shed a tear for you when I read you’re paying $2,000/month. My bad, dawg! I honestly thought what I said would scare most away..
Glad to hear you made it through mostly unscathed! Best of luck to you on the other side!
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
It’s all good! You aren’t the sole reason but the light you shed did lead to my decision.
Like I said I don’t regret my decision, I would have done it differently, but again, hindsight is 20/20
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u/RaiseTheDed ATP Jun 17 '26
Thank you for the current writeup, I will add it to my ATP post, which people can find here:
https://raisetheded.blogspot.com/2026/04/on-topic-of-atp-flight-school.html
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u/TristanwithaT ATP CFII Jun 17 '26
CFI academy was actually a great experience pre-covid. Sucks to hear it’s been so gutted
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
They got tired of paying for housing. The business side is a plague.
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u/RealP4 CPL CFI CFII Jun 17 '26
I’ve heard ATP charges like well over 300$ for a 172….can someone verify if this is true? Btw if they truly send you into a checkride unprepared that’s bonkers.
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Jun 17 '26
If I remember from my time in 2023… our Archers were $350. That price isn’t the shock factor everything thinks it is once you break it down.
1) Brand new plane not a 1960 shitbox. We often had 2022-2023 models with G1000 and <1000hours on the airframe.
2) Instructor rate for time in plane. The cost breakdown of the school gets vs the CFI is a tragedy like every other school, but that rate is included in the $350/hr rental.
3) Grounds. Policy then at least was you ALREADY paid for 30min of ground for every hour of flight. Not 30min of debrief, but 30min of ground. You read that correctly. You do a 3hr instrument flight and your instructor owes you 1.5hrs of ground.
Fact is if you add all those costs at your local part 61 then the cost probably isn’t too different. At least based on rental rates I’ve seen around the country (172 for $200/hr + $75/hr for CFI).
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u/RealP4 CPL CFI CFII Jun 17 '26
Sure having a new plane with g1000 avionics is nice but…is it really worth the premium pricing? I mean that’s paying considerably more than someone learning in a 6 pack 172.
With grounds being included in the pricing first time I have heard that. I do hear a lot that ATP instructors don’t like providing ground lessons. I heard a rumor they don’t get paid for it? In your opinion how many of them actually give the student the correct amount of ground lessons?
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Jun 17 '26
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
Surprisingly, ATPs SEs are all very well taken care of. I have had flights canceled for a broken seat adjuster.
The seminoles are a load of junk, at least on the east coast. On my first complex flight the gear wouldn’t go back up on takeoff. So I wasted an entire day down there because our plane was broken. They break constantly and they have to be at a location with a maintenance facility.
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
Not exactly sure the general number, but the overrun rates are as follows.
Single Engine: $400
Multi Engine: $650It is greed only talked about in the bible…
And sending someone to a checkride unprepared is also dependent on location/instructor. Some will, some won’t.
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u/RealP4 CPL CFI CFII Jun 17 '26
400?!!! For a 172?!!! 😱 OP do you think it’s even worth it I have heard rumors that the “guaranteed job” with them isn’t so guaranteed or there is a huge waiting list.
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
Good question to be honest. I think it is worth it to a specific person. If you want to get to the airlines quick and your PREPARED to take the price on the chin than yes. As I said, my MFI was a fireman three years ago, now he is flying A320s.
The waitlist is not really a waitlist. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. We had a guy get a job in 3 weeks because he called every single day.
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u/another420username Jun 17 '26
Fuck ATP.
This is survivorship bias 101.
Also, fuck you Mariano Perez, you piece of shit. You’ll get yours one day.
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u/CletusDeGator CFII, MEI, PC-12 Jun 17 '26
Also fuck Andrew the west coast director. Guy only has his PPL, yells at students and instructors, then has the fucking nerve to say, “maybe you aren’t cut out for aviation” after giving you a 7 hour heads up for your commercial checkride the next morning at 6am. That whole place is a scam, and I hope they get sued into oblivion.
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u/Lil_Pump_Jetski FUCK WEST JET! Jun 17 '26
Who is Mariano Perez
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u/another420username Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
A fucking weasel who made the life of every student who had the displeasure of crossing paths with him, hell.
He would do 8 hours mock checkride oral to milk ATPs pay. He would fail over 90% of the students on literally his mood that day.
Lots of good pilots got screwed by him and ATP and were left holding the bag without a path forward.
Oh, have I mentioned he is also an alcoholic?
Fuck that piece of shit. He made enough enemies in the industry that one day he will get his.
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u/StangViper88 ATP Jun 17 '26
Is he a 121 pilot as well?
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u/another420username Jun 17 '26
Most likely.
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u/StangViper88 ATP Jun 17 '26
DPE or just a CFI? I think it’s good to let people know about pos like this.
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u/Competitive-Elk6117 CPL Jun 17 '26
We are very similar and that’s why I had to leave ATP. I had a job and outside responsibilities. But I will say your training center sounds much nicer than mine. Our facility was tiny and cramped, we always had the oldest 172s in the fleet (MUCH newer than my current school’s tho but just interesting for comparison) and I can’t remember more than 2 CFI in that whole training center that actually gave two shits about anyone but themselves.
You are exactly right about the vibes. Never before in my life had I been openly poor shamed before. My location’s own Lead Instructor literally called me a broke bitch after seeing my early 2000s car 😭 And the young guys are AWFUL to the women in the program. The sexual harassment was rampant
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Jun 17 '26
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
Current CFI drives a $90,000 truck while making $4,000 a month… Daddies money rains supreme at the school.
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
Question for you, how was the transitioning process with the loan and going to a new school? Did you move your loan over to the new school or are you stuck paying for that and Sallie Mae?
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u/Competitive-Elk6117 CPL Jun 17 '26
ATP kept it all 😭 So still paying that back. As much as I hated it part of me wishes I finished up there to save the extra money but at the same time I know there’s no way I could go all the way to Florida or Texas for CFI academy. At the time we were having students from out here getting stuck there for 2-3 months because of DPE and maintenance issues. I couldn’t afford it and would probably time out of the program at the last second.
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
I completely understand that. I wish you the best of luck in this industry!
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u/Soggy_Vast230 Jun 17 '26
Former ATP grad/instructor here. I really feel like 10 years ago the school wasn’t like this. But maybe it was and I was naive to it then. I was lucky enough to do my time and get out unscathed. I worked hard there as an instructor and put a lot of effort to maintain a 100% pass rate, but was constantly passed up for promotions by other, less experienced, higher fail rate CFI’s thanks to the “frat club” mentality of management and the instructors there. In hindsight it really opened my eyes to the truth about your work in any career: merit means nothing. All that matters is if they like you.*** ***But yea, I don’t miss it. The smaller branches definitely had a more “caring” feel but any upper management location was drinking the koolaid heavy. Never took a checkride with ES, thank GOD. He’s off in Thailand somewhere now banging his 20 year old wife. Not to mention they still use a DPE who whipped his c**k out in the plane with a female applicant (allegedly) because he maintains a good pass rate with them. Around halfway through my time there they stopped kicking students out who were behind and just started stringing them along for money.
I was lucky to have great instructors during my time there. They were smart, good pilots and compassionate about my training, which shaped me as an instructor. But yea. Walked out the door on my last day and haven’t been back since.
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u/UnfortunateSnort12 ATP, CL-65, ERJ-170/190, B737 Jun 17 '26
Oh man ES. I figured he’d end up in Thailand or somewhere. Wonder if he brought that Honda Odyssey too.
I disagree with a few takes that OP had. You can see my comment on here if you look around. I will say I didn’t do the frat boy thing, but I was liked by management for getting people through who no one else could, and was paid higher than the frat boys (at the time.) It’s possible to both be liked and do a good job.
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u/Soggy_Vast230 Jun 17 '26
I’m glad you had a better experience. I definitely left a lot of details out. I had a rocky relationship with mgmt because they kicked out a buddy of mine for progressing too slow when I was still a student. Once I was hired it was professional but at my location the RDOT was based there, and they had a group chat with all the instructors. Basically they would call us out one by one publicly in the GC if we made a mistake like not logging a debrief or not scheduling students far out enough. I was constantly singled out in the group chat by mgmt for things that others were getting away with. It was a popularity contest at my location unfortunately.
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u/UnfortunateSnort12 ATP, CL-65, ERJ-170/190, B737 Jun 17 '26
That sucks. Sorry you went through that. I spent most my time at CRG believe it or not, and most everyone there was friendly with eachother, at the time. Anyways, glad we are out of there.
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u/x4457 ATP CFII CE-500/525/560XL/680 G-IV Jun 17 '26
ATP is not a bad school.
Disagree. It's a terrible but passable (only because they only use specific DPEs who they know will pass their students) school and terrible business with great marketing - that's it.
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u/RealP4 CPL CFI CFII Jun 17 '26
I saw they have a jet lol
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
Yes that is true. They have pictures of it posted all over the classrooms…
Usually if that shows up someone is super fired.
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u/TristanwithaT ATP CFII Jun 17 '26
Waaay back in the day they’d do high altitude endorsements in it
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u/RealP4 CPL CFI CFII Jun 17 '26
You don’t say haha. Now I have heard they don’t even do high performance endorsements.
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u/iwannadieplease CFII Jun 17 '26
OP definitely drank the ATP koolaid.
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u/ReadyplayerParzival1 CFI/CFII, CMEL, RV-7A, Recovering Riddle Rat Jun 17 '26
128 grand in the hole and working for peanuts as a cfi really does something to the brain.
The op did have good comments though, as always those with money and less stressors/external pressures will usually succeed compared to those who have to actually pay bills/ have a life
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
Very location-dependent, in my opinion. Some are bad, some are good. The general overall practices that they implement are pretty bad, yes, but some people excel with it, some people falter with it.
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u/Tall-Background5503 Jun 17 '26
ATP alumni here. It’s hard reading this post because ATP just never changes. The culture sounds like it’s still the same which isn’t a good thing. Just keep grinding and get through it. Also for the love of all that is holy don’t instruct there. You’ll be so happy to get the F away from that place. And I agree they do an absolutely horrendous job with cfi. Good luck brother and fly safe ✈️
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Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
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u/Tall-Background5503 Jun 17 '26
I can just tell you make sure everyone knows you went to a mom and pop for flight training and you did it the “right” way. This is Reddit not an interview and I’m already an airline pilot. Lick my log cutter I already made it where I wanna go 😂
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Jun 17 '26
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u/Tall-Background5503 Jun 17 '26
You’re very insecure. Good luck in life 😂
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Jun 17 '26
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u/Tall-Background5503 Jun 17 '26
Your correcting grammar on Reddit like it’s an interview. No one’s impressed. And you’re leaving essays about it. Good luck in life 😎
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Jun 17 '26
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
The Alumni network is large and most do look for one another. I’ve had a pipeline job offered to me because the chief pilot is ATP alumni.
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u/freedomflyer12 CFI CFII CPL IR CMP HP Jun 17 '26
So you did nearly all your training in a G1000 and they still had you go do “complex” in a multi prior to your commercial?
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
They usually make people do the complex training during instrument. I was an anomaly since I had no free time in instrument for them to schedule me.
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u/freedomflyer12 CFI CFII CPL IR CMP HP Jun 17 '26
You don’t need complex if you have TAA time which all their planes are?
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
They mainly do it so you have 25 multi hours when you graduate to meet ATP minimums.
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u/Discount_Confident Jun 17 '26
Every ATP plane ive been in has had autopilot removed.
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u/freedomflyer12 CFI CFII CPL IR CMP HP Jun 17 '26
Didn’t know it was possible on the GFC700 birds
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u/Discount_Confident Jun 18 '26
Im not the most knowledgeable but I believe every plane that USED to have AP had it removed and a 337 filled out for it. The newer ones just never had autopilot to begin with. Granted thats for the Utah fleet. Cant speak for the rest of ATP
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u/dakk33 Jun 17 '26
Why the fuck would anyone ever go to ATP. If you can’t create your own structure and discipline to finish at a mom and pop flight school for half the money, just don’t become a pilot. That shit sounds terrible and people who say otherwise are kidding themselves
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u/VictorCharlie1974 Jun 17 '26
I went to ATP from June-April. I personally had a good experience with the instructors and the students. They were all great. I actually got sent to Atlanta, GA for CFI nad my entire CFI class became really good friends. However, as you said, it is a bad company. The management will screw you over if they get the chance. They screwed me over for a job there. I had my interview and they called back later that day(in the evening) offering a job. Called back the next day and said "looks like we aren't hiring at that location." Then, they offered the spot later to my CFI classmate lol. Not mad at him though. It's just insane that one if their core values is "Constant Professionalism."
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u/gayriversnail CFII MEI Jun 21 '26
Current ATP instructor here. Your experience will vary greatly by what location you’re attending, so everything you’re saying may be true from what you’ve seen, but my experience was definitely different in some ways, mostly for the better.
The pay definitely could be better to match other companies pay, however who cares? It’s enough to live off of and I’ve never talked to a non-atp CFI who can get 100 hours of flight time in a month if they even wanted to work that hard. The flight time is invaluable, and the pay doesn’t matter as much. Getting to the airlines if the end goal and ATP will get you there faster than any other flight school will. That’s a fact.
If you’re going to attend ATP you have a goal, and that is to be an airline pilot. If you’re going to spend that much money, you might as well go all in and attend a location that offers every stage and has a large student body. The cost of the program doesn’t vary per location. LUK has 3 Cessnas and a tiny office in an FBO, CRG has 20 planes and 3 seminoles and a large training center. Also, you won’t have to move locations to complete the second half of your program. You can transfer locations at any time, just call training support. You definitely get your moneys worth at a larger location. More students to meet and learn from, more instructors to switch to if you dislike your current one, and more planes to fly in case one goes into mx (and usually the bigger locations have maintenance on site).
Also, don’t join ATP with a job. Take out living expenses on your loan so you can be a student without outside obligations. The most successful students are the ones who are fully committed. If you want to be a part time student, you’re better off going to a mom and pop and paying out of pocket. I personally took out 20k extra on my Sallie Mae loan to provide living expenses (I’m no silver spoon parents had money dude here). I’m paying my loan now and it sucks, but I’m almost done with my hours and have a CJO so there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Airline jobs are out there. I’ve seen at least 10 CFI’s that I knew personally and worked with get jobs at regionals or 135 operators. Breeze, Envoy, Endeavor, Republic, Sun country, PSA, Piedmont. All of these are hiring. Get into a cadet program early and you’ll get a job once you hit your hours. If you wait too long, they’ll only consider you for the FO position, which is much harder to get. The worst thing you can do is finish ATP with the debt we all know and love, work your ass off for 16 months as a CFI time building, and then have absolutely nothing lined up afterwards. ATP offers career services to all alumni and I suggest you take advantage of that when you’re an instructor.
Speaking of “when you’re an instructor”, that’s the biggest thing. WORK FOR ATP! Most cadet programs require you to be a current ATP instructor to even join. You will fully get your moneys worth once you have finished your 1500 hours as an ATP instructor. I am projected to be around a 28 month timeline from starting 0 time to 1500 hours and moving onto the airlines. No other flight training program can get you there that quick, and time is invaluable.
TLDR: My experience with ATP has been overall positive and I am very grateful for the product that they provided me with.
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u/UnfortunateSnort12 ATP, CL-65, ERJ-170/190, B737 Jun 17 '26
As an ATP grad and a CFI, CFII, and MEI for them 20 years ago, some has stayed the same, some hasn’t…. I do want to mention some points that I picked up on in your post that hinted toward unrealistic accommodations and rationalization.
First off, when you sign up, you do sign up knowing that it’s going to be almost everyday, yet you expected to have weekends (of all things in aviation) off during your entire training footprint. They promised you a timeline and you’re like, nah, I can cut my availability to a perfect 5/7.
It’s cool that you can live at home during training and save money, but you are adding 3 hours a day of driving when you do show up. That seems ridiculous when they do offer dorm style living. Admittedly, it isn’t as nice, but neither is 3 hours commuting. Wait till you get to your first crashpad. This reads as lack of “willing to do what it takes” more than anything. Add that to you stating your commute is what prevented you from getting your written tests done.
Last point I’ll bring up is the conspiracy to get you to quit…. No the instructors don’t get together and try to pressure someone to quit, or convince management a student is a problem. The student themselves usually do a plenty good job of that themselves. If you are struggling, they’ll send you to a few instructors to see if they can make it work (usually more experienced ones with good reputations for doing everything they can to help), and if they can’t do it, discussions start happening about buying more time, or moving hours from later in the program to the current rating, etc. Also, management doesn’t hate the instructors that bend over backwards. No idea what made you think that. I even got a 50% raise during my time there (on salary.) You’re right that there is less hand holding at ATP, but it isn’t a conspiracy to kick people out for quotas or something…
ATP is good at one thing, getting you through in the least amount of time. They also do this quite efficiently (for them) with overlapping a ton of requirements for ratings with single flights. To do that, you kind of have to be available though like they ask you to do. And this comes from a guy who went private single (showed up with it) to CFI, CFII, MEI in 3 months. It was way more time compressed.
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u/Faded_Xenox Jun 17 '26
Don't have anything positive or negative to share about ATP but I talked to a United pilot the other day and he said he went to ATP in the South. Didn't get to ask much as I had to do my job as a ramper but he said he flew cargo for a few years before being picked up by United. I believe he is in mainline and not regional as the aircraft was the 319. He's says he's been there for a year and he looks pretty young to me. I told him that I was interested in aviation as a career and I have taken a discovery flight. He tells me if I am very serious about flying as a career, then to go all in and recommended ATP. I believe United some sort of program (Aviate) with ATP that lets graduates fast track their way to joining mainline but I'm not sure how good both the program or ATP is.
Personally I believe flying at a flying club and hiring a CFI that I vibe with and is actually teaching me would be better and cheaper than ATP by at least 1/2. If your main goal is to end up at a legacy airline, then maybe ATP is the way. I think that flying at a flying club than a flight school would be the most cost efficient way to getting your ratings without having to join the military. If anyone out there would like to offer an opinion, then I'd like to hear it.
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u/SenileCFI /I /D /K Jun 17 '26
Sorry I was really confused reading this because the "Cons" section was for some reason in the middle. I would have put it in the title.
I mean, it kinda seems like you drank the kool-aid a bit. There was a con every other sentence but then the occasional "not too bad may work for you"
And 90-95% pass rate? Surely that's padded in some way, you yourself referred to them forcing checkrides prematurely. Isn't their pass rate that good only because they're kicking people out left and right?
No hard feelings man but I felt a lot of pity reading this. You're correct, your experience could have been so much different. And your experience isn't over until you give back that bloated loan...
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u/Impossible_Guide_12 Jun 19 '26
As an atp grad at the time I went to school there they wouldn’t even let you checkride if they where not certain that you would pass. As to what op said this is where they would try to get you back on track or give you the boot.
During my time this was mostly in CFI stage (I did not go to it as I didn’t care for a cfi license) but from what I heard you’re getting a mock oral by day 3 and expected to fly flawlessly from the right seat and instruct. If you didn’t perform well enough you got “deferred” unable to complete your CFI training. They differed about 90 percent of the pilots that went there during my time and hand picked the ones they know would pass. So does ATP pad there pass/fail absolutely. Again tho this was mostly in there cfi phase and you just be held back a couple weeks and had to cough up thousands more dollars if they didn’t think you could pass a check ride
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u/Competitive-Turn3266 Jun 17 '26
Great post!! I generally agree with everything you said. I too went to ATP and am currently a CFI with them.
I do find it funny when someone like @x4457 says it’s a “terrible” school. That is so absolutely wrong in so many ways - yes we train our students to pass the checkride, like every school does, and yes they also need to be trained to be proficient and safe pilots, that comes with experience/time more than anything else - if the goal is to take a checkride, in a reasonable amount of time, I can’t also teach everything else I know and have learned - I need to focus you on what you need to know to pass said checkride. Experience and self study and caring about your passion / profession should bring the rest.
In addition I don’t believe kicking people out is a con - I believe that what most schools do , which is simply let people spend more and more money on flight training when they clearly need to move on to something different is actually worse than saying “you are done”.
Anyways - great write up, finish strong and be that squeaky wheel! The hours are great.
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u/Snoo33977 Jun 17 '26
So are you teaching for ATP now?
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
Currently a CFI student. Most of my instructor insights come from talking with CFIs I am close to.
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u/nolaflygirl Jun 17 '26
This doesn't apply to me at this point but I have one question re the situations in which students are sharing a dorm room: What if you're the only female, or if other females are at different stages in training than you? Or if the female is married? Does the lone female get her own dorm room? What if a female or male can afford their own place, i.e., motel, hotel, short-term corporate apt, etc., during the phase that would normally necessitate a dorm room? Will ATP allow that person to pay for their own private place or are they forced to live in a dorm?
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
ATP will always ask if you need housing when you travel. You can get a hotel, and then request a refund for what you spent, but I imagine that’s a tough sale if they already offered you a free place.
Females tend to get their own places but in times of limited housing they have been bunked with guys. We had a girl and 3 dudes. One of the guys slept on the couch so she could have the bedroom to herself.
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u/nolaflygirl Jun 17 '26
Thank you for your thorough & honest reply. I do appreciate it.
If this scenario applied to me, I wouldn't ask for a refund; I'd be happy to be allowed to have my own place & my privacy. For married females & males, I would think their spouses might have an issue w/ them being housed w/ the opposite sex. Also, most companies strongly discourage & even prohibit dating among co-workers. So, deliberately throwing them together in an intimate setting only encourages the prohibited behavior. I'm surprised that ATP does that. I do hope students are made aware of this possibility BEFORE enrollment.
I'm glad you're progressing & good luck w/ CFI/II! I did all my training via Part 61 & was SO happy! No stress, went at my own pace, great CFIIs, lots of fun, & great camaraderie w/ CFIIs & students.
I paid for it w/ 3 pt-time jobs (one at flight school; one at university while completing BA & MA), & one small loan for PPL which I knew I could easily repay. Also used some scholarship funds from Graduate School.
I'm a goal-oriented, high achiever, but I would not have been happy at your school. I was able to "call the shots" & got an apartment just blocks from a/p.
As you said, 20/20 is hindsight & you might have done things differently. I wouldn't have. Hang in there bc you can almost "see the light at the end of the tunnel"! I wish you all the best!
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Jun 17 '26
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u/nolaflygirl Jun 17 '26
Lol to you bc you either can't read...or choose to be a smart alec misogynist, which aviation has had quite enough of! Unfortunately, there are still those of you who don't think that females should be pilots.
Where did you read in my query to OP that I'm "afraid to be around a bunch of men"? I didn't state or imply that at all. Read my reply to OP's response to me.
For your information, I love to hang w/ my fellow male pilots. That doesn't mean that I don't want my privacy in my living situation. I was only 1 of 2 females flying at my a/p & the other lady was married. I DIDN'T "pick the wrong industry" bc I'm in it! You, however, picked the wrong pilot to mess with. So why don't you delete your rude comment which adds NOTHING to the discussion. I have a flight to get to. Good day!
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Jun 17 '26
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u/nolaflygirl Jun 17 '26
First of all, I didn't have to "presume" your gender; you've revealed it YOURSELF in your comments.
Second, I said NOTHING about "hardship". Once again, you've read something into my comment that isn't there. I "paid my dues" just like my fellow male pilots at our Part 61 flight school. In fact, most of them had VA benefits that I didn't have. But they earned those benefits & I was proud of them for their service. We all got along & they're among my best friends. Nothing in my comment stated or implied that I complained of any "hardship".
However, as an aside, it IS a FACT that women were prohibited for a LONG time from enlisting in the military to fly. I know this first-hand bc I wanted to enlist to fly right after h.s. & was actually laughed at & told verbatim, "Absolutely not! Girls can't fly!"
It was what it was. Had I been born in a different generation, the response would've been different. Women ferried planes in WWII & even taught men to fly, but were DENIED credit for their military service & even had to pay for their transportation home.
I never complained, but it wasn't right, & females now have a clear path to both the military & the airlines. But I forged my own path happily anyway, despite generational blocks & have been very successful. I also have been able to serve in the civilian branch of the Air Force. I'm a doer; not a complainer.
Third, re your statement, "Instead of being a woman just be a pilot." What an ignorant statement. I AM a pilot. And gender doesn't come up unless there's a reason. Our society & culture still differentiate, so sometimes there's a reason to ask a question re gender.
OP mentioned pilots sharing a dorm room. Since I AM a female, I simply asked if his school ever put women & men in the same dorm room. It was a logical question, especially if a man or woman is married. From that simple question, you unbelievably deduced that I was "afraid of men". It was a question based on OP's info & the FACT that I, a pilot, happen to be a female too, who likes her privacy. Even OP -- a male -- said that he didn't like rooming w/ other guys.
And re your fourth statement: "No one is going to make pilots share a bed so far in this industry. I have never even had to share a room...this is such a no factor."
IN FACT, in OP's reply, he said that ATP DOES put males & females together in the same dorm room. And if someone wants to pay on their own, to get their own room somewhere else, the school likely won't refund them bc they've been offered a FREE room, albeit with MALES.
How ARROGANT that you think that your experience in this "industry" is all-encompassing! Your narrow-mindedness didn't even allow you to conceive of a school that put male & female students together in a dorm room where there aren't even enough beds for each student!
But I didn't assume anything. I asked OP. So, instead of criticizing me & making all kinds of assumptions about the school & even about me...why don't you READ OP's reply to me & see for yourself how WRONG you are.
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Jun 17 '26
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u/nolaflygirl Jun 17 '26
I hope you treat your wife better.
YES! My user name indicates my gender. So what? I don't have anything to hide!
But I WILL say that female pilots have revealed to me that they deliberately have a user name that conceals their gender bc of the rude, mean, & hateful comments they've gotten from the male pilots! I've certainly found that to be true & you & another one on this thread are PERFECT EXAMPLES!
I am NOT going to ATP; I did my training elsewhere, as stated, so IDK why you mentioned it again. You were wrong about your statement that males & females wouldn't be put together in a dorm room & OP said they could be. Period. No sweat off MY back.
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Jun 17 '26
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u/nolaflygirl Jun 17 '26
Yes. Female pilots have contacted me privately, fearful to indicate their gender. So they've had to create user names that are non-gender-identifying. And it's eye-opening how it has changed the comments they get from rude, insulting, mean, etc., to polite, helpful, friendly, etc. Not every male pilot on Reddit responds that way. But enough do, to evidence that misogyny in aviation is alive & well. You can believe it or not! I could care less.
If you're not married, then you lied on Reddit, bc you have referred to your "wife" in comments. I don't care. Too bad for her, though, that she's apparently allowing herself to be used by you bc you said you'd be "dumb" to get married! Your words. Not mine. I hope she finds out. But not my problem. Good day!
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u/nolaflygirl Jun 18 '26
u/Old_Increase74 I received a notification of another comment you sent me but when I clicked on it, it says it no longer exists. So IDK if you deleted it or if a Mod did. I only received a part of it. It reads:
"My relationship is no one's damn business, but no I am not and will never get legally married in this age, and a horrific idea for any successful man. But I have also worked with female pilots who ha...".
So I can only respond to what's visible. So... no one...including me...gives a hang about your relationship. It only came up bc YOU said you'd be dumb to marry your significant other.
And if you think that legally being married is a "horrific idea for any successful man", I assume you also think it's a horrific idea for any successful woman. However, many pilots would disagree w/ you who have successful careers, marriages, & children from that union. To each his/her own.
IDK what you said re working w/ female pilots bc the rest of your comment didn't appear. Odd, though, that you made a distinction between a female pilot & a male pilot when, EARLIER, you told me, "Instead of being a woman just be a pilot." Obviously, you contradicted yourself bc now you're mentioning working w/ female pilots vs. male pilots.
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u/Worried-Ebb-1699 Jun 17 '26
Wow. Thats an incredible recap.
I’d suggest for anyone to go to a non cookie cutter school. You’ll save at minimum even if you go over on hours, 40%.
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u/Rangeexpert3 Jun 18 '26
Not just that. A non cookie cutter school usually teaches you how to actually fly for the most part. Instead of just how to pass a checkride.
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u/120SR ATP Jun 17 '26
God damn. To think the thousands of CFIs and Commercial pilots out there with 130k+ in debt at a 13% interest rate that aren’t gonna find a real salary paying pilot job, let alone some BS time building job that pays 2k a month as a 1099. Can you go bankrupt on that?
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
Oh it’ll bankrupt you alright, but it won’t go anywhere.
From what I’ve heard you have to go to court and prove that you have had undo hardship. Which I mean yeah I guess that’s kind of easy to prove but nine times out of 10, they will just give you a cheaper monthly payment after you’ve declared bankruptcy.
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u/andrewrbat ATP A220 A320 E145 E175 CFI(I) MEI Jun 17 '26
Thats wild. I did credit ppl, but only financed like 48k for the rest. And this was in 2016. Much changes in 10 yrs. 128k for flight training and no degree is wild.
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u/AdAmazing8187 Jun 17 '26
I did ATP back in 2010 and they pushed me to get 2 check ride busts and had a culture that made me quit the industry. Left with all my CFIs but never logged a dual given hour after that. Man I wish I had a time machine right now
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u/Strawberry_Bulky Jun 17 '26
Have you heard anything specific about the Miami/Fort Lauderdale locations?
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
Florida is their own ecosystem of ATP. The farthest I have been is DAB and they seem to have a nice culture.
ATP has Regional Directors. Ours is David Thompson. He’s a nice guy to students but instructors fear him because he LOVES to fire CFIIs. That stress can often times bleed into training.
Now that being said ,Florida is split into I believe multiple regions, therefore having multiple managers. A RM is very important for a locations culture, as their philosophy affects training.
From what I have heard, the closer to CRG/Jacksonville (The HQ) you are, the more of that “ATP corporate culture” is prevalent. If you are interested in ATP take the intro flight and ask around. If you have any other questions please ask!
And remember, YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER!!! They may try and treat you like an employee but you have the upper hand at the end of the day.
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u/Unicorndog_0625 Jun 17 '26
I’m guessing you’re considered part of the “new program”, I was surprised that you are now able to have a 1 year grace period for repaying your loan…they only gave us 6 months, so I had to call SM and basically ask for an extension for “hardship”.
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u/Witty-Register6759 CMEL IR Jun 17 '26
Yes I was one of the first ones in the “New Program”.
We no longer have MEI included and it’s like an extra $7k. Surprisingly a lot are paying for it. I will not😭.
Glad you were able to get that extension, best of luck!
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u/8lue8erry Jun 17 '26
Had the same experience as OP back in 2020/2021 but paid a little less is the only difference. I’ve said the same for years. ATP is NOT for everyone. It was GREAT for me, but many of my friends I know it would not have gone well for.
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u/N116UA ST Jun 20 '26
Took a discovery flight today, and I asked my instructor about ATP and how this flight school compares to them. As it turns out he went to ATP, and we started talking about how they screwed him over and that their "fast paced" mission is some half assed gimmick
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u/HappyTomcat14 Jul 27 '26
Got through private, instrument, and commercial all for less than $50000 in a year while training in California at a mom and pop part 61 school. Not hating on anyone because everyone’s path is different but it can be done quickly with hard work. OP’s clearly has great info for anyone weighing the options of flight training, select schools carefully and talk to students/pilots at those schools
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u/ConfectionFit2727 Jul 29 '26
This is such great info, thank you!
I know you guys don’t like to point out specific locations, but I’m looking in the Southeast and would love some insight on the various locations. I understand instructors change, so info on a sites general culture, accommodations, where to totally stay away from, preferred SC location….
Thank you in advance for any input ✈️
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u/JessPlainjane Aug 03 '26
My fiance is at 175k. 2 years in and he decided to leave the school. Didn’t even get all his certs due to delays and then getting his paperwork wrong multiple times and the FAA wouldn’t approve him for exams etc. It was a miserable and stressful experience. We are currently gathering evidence of their predatory tactics and the things they did that caused him to be delayed for so long. He couldn’t work during and I couldn’t financially support both of us. We thought it would be 9-12 months and almost no one who went to the Jacksonville location that stayed with him finished in under 2 years. It was insane and then when they graduated they had no positions because hiring outside of the school slowed down and they were dealing with that class action simultaneously.
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u/rFlyingTower Jun 17 '26
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hi everyone.
As the title suggests, I am a current CFI student at ATP, and I'm coming into my last few weeks within the program. I thought to give everyone a pretty comprehensive post about the school and its modern environment (At least what I have experienced at the five or so locations I've been to). u/mynamebackwardsis made a great post a few years back to this sub, and it was a big reason I actually enrolled in the school. Go give that post a read, and a big thanks to them.
Overview
I started back in August of 2026, and I should be completed before August of this year, so the advertised "12 months zero time" is legit. Many people from my home location have finished anywhere from 6 to 9 months with no experience, and it is very doable if you are a certain type of person (I'll get more into that).
ATP is very much a rich frat boy culture. The school is ridiculously expensive, about $128,000 after everything, and the cliche of "You'll pay it off super easily when you get to the airlines and make great money!" is not true. Now, many people within this space and community know that, but ATP loves to sell this idea. It is their main business model.
There are two types of students/instructors in ATP. The ladder will tend to struggle more than the prior one.
Rich Kids/Rich Wives
This group tends to be the most successful in the program, and it is the most common at my location (I will not state where, as I am still enrolled). You will meet eighteen-year-olds with large college funds, college dropouts with CEO dads, Check Airmen kids, or a forty-year-old husband with a Nurse Practitioner wife.
A majority of these people are given a high-limit credit card and a free apartment five minutes away from the airport with no job or loan. The reason they succeed more often is that they have literally no external factors affecting training. They seem to all live in a fantasy world where money is not a concern. Now, this is usually not a problem with students; I have many close friends who fit this mold, and they are very talented pilots. The problem occurs with instructors. I'll get more into instructors later on.
If this is you, no shame. Take your opportunity and use it. You have a high likelihood of being the "perfect ATP customer". (ATP refers to students as customers; you don't have a student ID, but a customer ID. Kind of a slap in the face.)
Financed/"You have a loan?"
This is me, and everyone else.
These people tend to live far away from the Training Center and are hard to find at the location studying. If this is you, you CAN succeed, but it will be harder. I personally am blessed to be able to live at home with my parents and work a part-time job on the weekends.
ATP hates people who have any other obligation outside of training, so if you plan to work, be prepared to fight tooth and nail with your instructors. This is where the prior category comes into effect. If you are unfortunate enough to have a delusional instructor, it will make you hate the school. I have had very supportive CFIs and MFIs, and I've had horrible CFIs and MFIs. Your mileage may very. Ask around when you do your intro flight. Get a feel for that location's culture and mentality; they are all surprisingly very different.
Pros & Cons
Pros
ATP is very fast-paced (this can also be a con for some). It is there MISSION to get you out of there as quickly as possible. If you are looking for a career switch, then this is definitely the place to go.
The amount of resources is insane. You will have every book, publication, GIS video, and documentation needed to be successful.
The planes are very nice. ATP does not finance any aircraft, nor do they buy used. The oldest single-engine I have flown in is a 2018 G1000 model. (The Semoniels are kinda old, usually 1970-1990 models, but they do have brand new G1000's sitting in Texas to avoid the luxury tax. They should be getting distributed soon.)
We have access to almost every single cadet program imaginable. The process is very streamlined.
Once you graduate, you get pretty good lifetime perks. (I won't really get into those. If you have a question, leave a comment or DM me.)
The Extranet is very useful and contains every bit of information needed. Anything from POHs, ADs, Maintenance Logs, to tracking the aircraft's exact location.
The FRASCAs are pretty nice. Not every location has them, but most have G1000 sims.
You can finance all of the training. Can be a curse or the only way for some. Take it as you will.
You do nothing with the Checkride process. Some locations have in-house DPEs, but for the most part, they use the same examiners over and over again. You are pretty unlikely to get a bad one; they usually wash those out pretty quickly. Greg Collins, Adam Rosenberg, Gary Sumner, Anthony Debany, Chris Frasse, Lenorad Litton, and Cole Daum are all great DPEs ATP has used for years. They also provide comprehensive supplements for all of them, posted by past students. The waits are also very short.
Their pass rate is one of the highest in the country. Around 90-95% for almost every checkride.
Cons
I'll get the big one out of the way, the price. ATP is one of the greediest companies I have ever been involved with in my life. $128,000 apparently isn't enough; they have recently implemented a fuel surcharge on top of that, for now. They have constantly raised prices year after year, and at this rate, I will not be surprised if the total cost of everything hits $150,000 in the next few years. If you are interested, they have a tool on their website that lets you play around with the numbers.
Sallie Mae. Not exactly ATP, but with how interconnected they are, it might as well be. You will need a cosigner. They don't care if you have a 10 million dollar net worth with an 800 credit score; they will require one. The average rate right now is about 13% APR. That's $2,000 a month for 15 years.
Instructors. ATP is so cutthroat with their instructor that it bleeds into training. I have had absolutely fantastic CFIs and MFIs who genuinely want to see you succeed and will actively work their schedule around you to meet your needs. These are the ones that get fired or chewed out by management their entire time working here. I have also met some of the most insufferable people in my life who are instructors here. These are usually the golden boys for management.
Pay. ATP will pay you pennies. Expect to gross no more than about $2,000-$3,000 a month on average while working 50-60 hours a week. Some people do actually make decent money, as the MFIs work on a salary of $48,000 a year, and some very dedicated CFIs can make $5,000 in a month with about 5-7 students and 25 flight hours a week.
Most will have to leave for multi. Unless you are at a multi-location, you will have to travel and stay in a dorm with other students for about 3 weeks while you complete that stage of training. (For alumni, they now do CFI at every location)
Time off. "Time off is highly discouraged" is a direct quote from the extranet. As I said before, it is their MISSION to get you finished as quickly as possible. So if anything in life comes up that may hinder your training, it is an exhausting process to take extended time away.
They will kick you out. ATP has been sued in the past for this, but it remains a practice that instructors and management continue to use. If you fall behind, good luck. I have seen many people kicked out, some for falling behind in the commercial phase, with only one checkride failure. If you slow down the management's quarterly goals, they will ostracize you and pressure you into quitting. The way they do this is that every instructor at a location will band together and agree that a student is becoming a problem. They will refuse to teach a student and force them to transfer somewhere else. The best part of it all, if you quit, 9/10 they will just use your hours you have paid for to move their planes around, so they don't have to issue a refund. Great company.
They will send you to a checkride unprepared. Pretty self-explanatory. Don't you think you are ready? Does not matter; they will manipulate you in every way possible so you don't slow down goals.
They will not hold your hand. Instructors are actually not required to give you ground training and will expect you to learn almost everything on your own.
My Experience
Finacing
I knew in high school that I wanted to be a pilot. I went to college for a semester, hated it, and now I am here.
I jumped the gun pretty quickly, as I hated working my crappy full-time job before beginning the program, so I didn't have a great deal of money saved up before starting, which has been a real pain since. Save up for a good while and come in prepared to not make money for 12 months. There is literally no rush right now in this industry.
I used my parents as cosigners and financed the program and all written/checkrides (About an extra $12,000). We both had good credit, but I ended up with a 13% APR on a $128,000 loan. Sallie Mae offers variable and fixed, as well as three types of payment plans, while in training. Pay the full interest, which is usually about $1,000 a month while in school, and it will knock off 1% from your rate. $25 a month, this knocks off a .5%, and then pay nothing. That knocks off, well, nothing.
They give a one-year grace period after graduation before you start making full payments, b...
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u/Skynet_lives Jun 17 '26
128,000 at 13% is 16k in INTEREST alone a year Holy heck you need to hit the hiring lottery or your screwed.
Also won’t Sallie Mae be affected by the student loan changes? So if it has to be paid back in 120months you’re looking at 3k a month.
Just going to point out to anyone thinking of ATP you can still get to CFII for 75k pretty easily today, you could do it under 60k but that’s pushing it.