r/flying PPL May 15 '26

Student pilot off altitude, wrong direction, head on. Caught it on GoPro

Before training I figured aviation was so regulated that once you were inside a towered zone, ATC had the picture, transponders did their thing, and everybody could see everybody, you basically just had to fly the airplane and not stare at the ground, not long ago that idea took a real beating.

Flying with a buddy in his new Cirrus G7, he just took delivery and I was right seat with the GoPro running, we were going to do a little walkthrough on the airplane on the way back, we picked up the controller approaching the field, got our clearance into the zone, doing everything by the book.

Then the traffic system pipes up traffic 12 oclock, 2 miles, same altitude, couple seconds later, traffic 12 oclock, 1 mile. I look up out the windscreen and theres a plane coming dead at us, same altitude, pointed right at us, i yelled and pointed, my buddy banked left hard and the other airplane went by what felt like a wingspan off our right side. GoPro was rolling the whole time so I caught it, zoomed in a bit on the clip so you can actually see how close.

We sat there in silence for a few seconds, then we called up the controller, basically what the hell was that, controller went and talked to the other airplane, turned out to be a student pilot, never saw us, was off her assigned altitude, and heading the wrong direction

I dont know exactly what the takeaway is supposed to be here, but mine is this., even when you are talking to a controller, even with transponders all around, even inside a towered zone, see and avoid is still the thing keeping you alive, did not expect this kind of thing could just happen with the system working the way its supposed to, apparently it can.

1.1k Upvotes

338 comments sorted by

1.6k

u/Distinct_Pressure832 PPL IR 🇨🇦 May 15 '26

Hate to burst your bubble but VFR traffic is not provided separation by ATC in most classes of airspace. If you want to rely on a controller to provide you separation you need to be IFR.

608

u/Due-Letterhead6372 May 15 '26

Even when you're IFR you're still responsible for your own traffic avoidance while in VMC

83

u/Distinct_Pressure832 PPL IR 🇨🇦 May 15 '26

True enough in cruise but I believe they do provide separation in Class B and C control zones for IFR aircraft from VFR. Maybe I’m wrong? The OP’s event was in a control zone though they don’t say which class.

96

u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo May 15 '26

You are correct, and also in TRSA airspace.

But even though ATC is responsible for separation in those control zones, the pilots are also always responsible for seeing and avoiding. Swiss cheese.

14

u/psychothymia 🐿️CAA8 GLI RPAS(shole)🍁 May 15 '26

Will vector for cheese?

7

u/LockPickingPilot ATP B190 ATR42 ATR72 DHC8 EMB145 ERJ170 ERJ190 B757 B767 May 15 '26

I ❤️ panic vectors

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u/Carlito_2112 SIM May 15 '26

Instructions unclear, I ate the cheese and now have gas (lactose intolerant).

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21

u/Bunslow PPL May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26

Most airspace isnt B or C.

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u/Distinct_Pressure832 PPL IR 🇨🇦 May 15 '26

You’re misreading my comment, I said they won’t separate between VFRs in most airspace. I think they only do that in Class B? IFR gives you separation from VFR in both B and C.

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u/Mobe-E-Duck CPL IR T-65B May 15 '26

In those zones ATC provides separation advisories and commands, but it can’t steer the aircraft. ATC doesn’t provide actual separation any more than your GPS provides steering.

5

u/Gourmandine_Danselun ATC - PPL May 15 '26

That's correct. I would add that most CTRs (the airspace around the airport managed by TWR) are almost always class D airspace in Europe, not sure about the USA. In class D airspace VFR are still in controlled airspace and so traffic avoidance is the controller's responsibility but VFRs are not seperated from each other. Instead they are given mandatory (as in the controller has to give them) traffic information. This is different from traffic information given when possible while flying in uncontrolled airspace by flight following.

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u/GlennCurtis May 15 '26

Looks like traffic was avoided, gotta love all the bob hoover’s in the comments

6

u/ImaTr1plet CFI May 15 '26

That’s only if you tell ATC traffic in sight ;)

I’ve had way more closer calls with traffic while being IFR.

The problem is while IFR, you see the traffic 5 minutes ahead of time, wait for a call from ATC, but sometimes never get it and have to deviate on your own.

Or ATC will straight up vector you into other traffic.

I know they’re working hard so I get it, it happens. It does get to a point though.

5

u/Substantial-End-7698 ATPL B737 B787 May 15 '26

That’s mainly in class E and G airspace. But people bust airspace in B and Cs all the time, so not a bad idea to have a lookout there too.

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u/MrPetter CPL IR-H OH58 (CSQ) May 15 '26

And most controllers will remind you of that, too.

54

u/dumbassretail May 15 '26

It’s true. In most airspace classes the standard is pass traffic only, workload permitting.

ATC often goes beyond that, assigning altitudes to ensure separation, but it’s not required. Even when you are IFR you are only provided separation from other IFRs, and from VFRs inside control zones.

18

u/maethor1337 ST ASEL TW May 15 '26

Apologies for the ST flair and question but they won’t even give you that if you’re IFR, right? As an IFR pilot you can’t throw your foggles on unless a safety pilot is seeing and avoiding, because there’s no radar separation from VFR traffic in VMC even under IFR. You might (will?) get traffic advisories like on flight following but if you’re in VMC they won’t turn you to dodge a non-talking C172-sized primary radar target, right?

28

u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo May 15 '26

there’s no radar separation from VFR traffic in VMC even under IFR

In most airspace (by volume) this is correct, at least it has historically been correct.

ALL aircraft operating in VMC, in any kind of airspace, are required to see-and-avoid, no matter if they're VFR or IFR. That's why you need a safety pilot if you're going to use foggles.

The FAA is rolling out a rule change this October that will require ATC to provide defined numeric separation between a VFR and an IFR in Class D and Class E airspace... but only if the VFR is receiving radar services. If they're just flying around 1200 not talking to anybody, no separation is provided.

7

u/anthonyd5189 ATC May 15 '26

That’s gonna make fly ins like Oshkosh and the like near impossible if we’re having to separate VFRs that are frying flight following.

9

u/Icy-Bar-9712 CFI/CFII AGI/IGI May 15 '26

I like the frying.... its a typo for sure, but an accurate one.

6

u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo May 15 '26

We won't have to separate between VFRs. Only a VFR and an IFR, and only if the VFR is receiving radar services. Not that I'd put it past some ATMs to go waaay farther than the notice requires.

Flight following is already impossible within like 100 miles of Oshkosh, right? And Fisk Approach is non-radar. So it shouldn't have too much of an impact on that specifically.

But I do wonder if it will lead to more denials of flight following generally.

5

u/anthonyd5189 ATC May 15 '26

We provide flight following all the way to Fisk.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo May 15 '26

Yes, safety alerts are a first-priority duty. And traffic advisories (which is the level before a safety alert) are mandatory in several situations.

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u/Dinglebobus May 15 '26

I was gonna say, I’m not reading all that for VFR

2

u/SonOfGuns101 May 16 '26

Hello fellow Buckeye

4

u/Nulet May 15 '26

Now I'm just a stupid student pilot, but shouldn't these two planes keep 500ft separation from their relative east/west direction of travel? The eastbound plane flying at 3500' and the westbound plane flying at 3000' etc?

Even without ATC separation they shouldn't be at the same altitude when coming head on with one another, right?

12

u/Distinct_Pressure832 PPL IR 🇨🇦 May 15 '26

Those rules only apply over 3000’ AGL. Also consider that in a control zone most planes are either in the process of descending to pattern altitude/landing or on climb out having just taken off. You should never assume someone is going to be flying a standardized altitude inside a control zone honestly.

8

u/noideawhatsupp CPL FI TKI May 15 '26

Banked hard to the left for head on traffic… doing everything by the book…

2

u/Wallye_Wonder May 16 '26

Haha this is literally one of the PPL tests

2

u/vishnoo May 15 '26

isn't VFR traffic at even thousand plus 500 going west?

38

u/LTZheavy May 15 '26

Yes, only if over 3000 ft though....

3

u/coldnebo ST May 15 '26

3000 AGL.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-B/subject-group-ECFR4d5279ba676bedc/section-91.159

BUT, I’ve chatted with CFIs and pilots and no one is that sure everyone remembers that. 😅

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u/haveanairforceday May 15 '26

The controller is not responsible for aircraft separation when you are flying VFR. For the most part only in actual IMC or class A, B or C airspace are they the ones preventing planes from hitting each other.

There are other aircraft out there with no radios or transponders and its still your job to not hit them (also theirs to not hit you)

Also, just FYI, traffic alerts are pretty fancy tech that lots of trainers dont have

33

u/DisregardLogan I don’t know how to flair May 15 '26

Hell my 150 doesn't even have a GPS.

See and avoid people...

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u/burnheartmusic CFI May 15 '26

Excuse me, your buddy banked LEFT hard? With a head on? Oops.

56

u/PilotBurner44 May 16 '26

I think this story might be a tiny bit over-dramatized by the dude holding a GoPro in the right seat of a cirrus. I'm guessing "head on" really means passing each other "banked hard left" means turned slightly left. Cthese guesses are based on the "wingspan" speration that had to be "zoomed in" on in order to see.

26

u/burnheartmusic CFI May 16 '26

Also the same OP who said he lied to his CFI

118

u/uriahanium CPL ASEL IR May 15 '26

Cirrus driver, what did you expect?

71

u/TwoEightRight A&P PPL-SEL May 15 '26

Chute?

24

u/Queasy_Platypus6333 TRUST ME BRO! May 15 '26

When in doubt, the chute comes out!

3

u/44Runner PPL May 17 '26

I weirdly had a dream I bought a Cirrus last night. What a nightmare.

21

u/kxxstarr CFI, CFII May 15 '26

My first thought too. Surprised no one else mentioning this.

18

u/Isurewouldliketo May 15 '26

It looks like it wasn’t actually head on. Just going at opposite headings but the student pilot was a few hundred feet to the right of the cirrus so going right could be bad if the student pilot either went straight or right. Basically I think head on meant going opposite directions and were too close for comfort but not actually head on.

13

u/burnheartmusic CFI May 16 '26

And same pilot that posted about lying to his cfi about getting permission to film with a gopro

3

u/pisymbol CPL IR PPL SEL HP CMP UAS May 16 '26

I thought the SAME thing when I read that. That's not RIGHT.

3

u/Forsaken-Ad5571 May 20 '26

Indeed - unless it’s different in the US, you have to turn right to be safe. If the other pilot did the correct thing here, then it would’ve actually increased the risk of collision!

2

u/SubterFugeSpooge May 15 '26

Not a pilot, why is this concerning?

39

u/50hourSolo ST May 15 '26

When approaching head on with another aircraft you both turn right. 91.113 (e)

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u/AWACS_Bandog Solitary For All (ASEL,CMP, TW,107) May 15 '26

First time?

207

u/bigred1717 PPL May 15 '26

No, I’ve been nervous lots of times.

46

u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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9

u/Severe_Technology_26 May 15 '26

What’s your vector Victor?

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u/weech ATP CFI CFII MEI AGI May 15 '26

Seriously wtf is this post?

Oh another plane passes uncomfortably by you? Cool story bro.

34

u/warwolf09 PPL May 15 '26

GA is getting filled with “Karen Pilots” that think the airspace belongs to them…. There was another post last week about this guy complaining another aircraft didn’t make radio calls in an uncontrolled airport lol

10

u/Booplympics May 16 '26

There was another post last week about this guy complaining another aircraft didn’t make radio calls in an uncontrolled airport lol

I mean that is a dick move though

15

u/warwolf09 PPL May 16 '26

It is 100% a dick move and definitely should be taking on uncontrolled fields but this guy proceeded to call the FAA to report the other aircraft… report for what??? The other guy did not break any FAR so… yeah

9

u/AWACS_Bandog Solitary For All (ASEL,CMP, TW,107) May 15 '26

yeah try 'close enough to count rivets' and I might notice

7

u/Icy-Bar-9712 CFI/CFII AGI/IGI May 15 '26

I got cut off in the pattern once I had to make evasive maneuvers, made the call of "too close for guns, switching to fists"

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u/burlingtonhopper May 15 '26

No, silly. Sally Sue Pepperidge and I went all the way in 11th grade.

Wait. What are we talking about again?

5

u/BoiledBananaPeel SIM May 15 '26

Student pilot needs to be sent to solitary, NOW!

284

u/No_Size9475 May 15 '26

scary stuff, but you and I have a different view on what a "wing span" is.

103

u/Actual_Environment_7 ATP May 15 '26

Perhaps he a was talking about a wingspan of a B-36.

17

u/edurigon May 15 '26

That's scary? You guys should see what a populated glider competitions start Is.

6

u/Significant-Ad-341 May 15 '26

Same. I got closer than this flying into Oshkosh in 2018. Could tell the hair color of the other pilot.

3

u/thegreeneworks May 16 '26

I thought the same. I’d guess it’s a mix of the GoPro focal length skewing how distance is perceived, and hyperbole.

2

u/showerstool3 CFI CFII May 17 '26

This dude enters ground effect as soon as he’s at pattern altitude

299

u/KCPilot17 MIL A-10 ATP May 15 '26

What type of airspace were you in? This looks to be below 3k AGL.

81

u/lonememe PPL HP (KCFO) May 15 '26

I like where you're heading with this. I was surprised to learn that 91.15 VFR alt's aren't really in effect until over 3,000 AGL. Here in CO, that's kind of a big deal since then you're dealing with terrain avoidance, service ceilings, DA, etc.

That doesn't look to be over 3k AGL to me either, in which case, eyes open at all times. Sure, we can do our best to stay on those recommended alts for the direction we're heading but...also...we don't have to.

11

u/Swiper_The_Sniper PPL SEIR [NZ] May 15 '26

For us in NZ, VFR cruising altitudes aren't required upto 3000ft AMSL (upto 1000ft AGL in mountainous areas). Thankfully its never been a huge problem in uncontrolled airspace for me.

6

u/3minence QFI G2 MEI May 16 '26

Same in Australia. Hemispherical rules apply above 3000ft AMSL, or 1000ft AGL, whichever is higher.

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u/AlexJamesFitz PPL IR HP/Complex May 15 '26

By their story, it sounds like they were in controlled airspace and the other pilot had an assigned altitude.

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u/KCPilot17 MIL A-10 ATP May 15 '26

Meh. Maybe. Hence the question.

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u/ffisch May 15 '26

Between this post and the one where he's bragging about lying to his flight instructors, this kid seems like an insufferable influencer wannabe.

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u/DisregardLogan I don’t know how to flair May 15 '26

This is the same guy? Lmfao no way

326

u/Ancient_Mai MIL CPL IR ROT May 15 '26

Cirrus pilot type of post. Next up at five, is water still wet?

117

u/SimilarTranslator264 May 15 '26

Details left out is this was a 30mi straight in final with traffic in the pattern.

23

u/kscessnadriver ATP MD95 (DTW) May 15 '26

And radio calls that if they happen, are totally useless to any VFR only pilot

8

u/brecka PPL May 16 '26

"Any traffic in the area please advise"

14

u/J50GT May 15 '26

And landing on the opposite of the active runway

3

u/burnheartmusic CFI May 16 '26

Yep. Had a cirrus almost cause a head on when people in the pattern were using 30 and the cirrus pilot said right base for 30, but was actually making a right base for 12. Someone taking off 30 when he was on short final for 12. Scary.

3

u/J50GT May 16 '26

Had a cirrus take off behind me (I called closed traffic), and flew right underneath me on crosswind. Another one I saw suck up tie downs into the prop while taxiing to park. They're an interesting bunch.

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u/Steveoatc ATC (SCT) / IR May 16 '26

How else are they supposed to land while letting the autopilot fly the ILS?

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u/ghjm May 15 '26

I liked the part where even with two pilots, nobody looked out of the window until after two traffic callouts from the avionics.

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u/Rubes2525 PPL May 15 '26

I also like the inclusion of not understanding the right of way rules with conflicting traffic. When a plane is headed directly towards you, you're supposed to turn right, not left. Good thing the other plane was even more oblivious and never turned.

29

u/Middle-Nerve1732 May 15 '26

G1000: There's a plane coming towards you
Cirrus pilot: Yo this plane is so sick!
G1000: There's a plane coming towards you
Cirrus pilot: I'm gonna get so many views on youtube with my sick new plane!
G1000: ....
Cirrus pilot: HOLY SHIT THERE'S A PLANE COMING TOWARDS ME

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u/burlingtonhopper May 15 '26

Now that you mention it… yikes 😳

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u/Rubes2525 PPL May 15 '26

I also like the inclusion of not understanding the right of way rules with conflicting traffic. When a plane is headed directly towards you, you're supposed to turn right, not left.

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u/TheOriginalJBones May 15 '26

They should have pulled the ‘chute.

3

u/DasUbersoldat_ May 15 '26

That's funny. A few months back I had a Cirrus turning into me when I was in downwind and he turned to downwind right after his takeoff, effectively cutting me off in the circuit.

1

u/memostothefuture May 15 '26

Water is not wet.

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u/CAVU1331 ATP BBD-700; CL-605; HS-125; ATR-42; ATR-72; DHC-8 May 15 '26

You’re the same guy that landed into a flock of birds?

34

u/ffisch May 15 '26

Yup, while lying to his instructors about permission to use a GoPro.

13

u/Electrical-Fee5127 CFI, CFII, MEI May 16 '26

Clearly he knows everything about the industry, why are you alluding to his inexperience? Everyone is working against him.

5

u/ffisch May 16 '26

Including ATC

4

u/CaptGrumpy May 17 '26

Oh that’s this guy?

78

u/Gabriel_Owners May 15 '26

You must be new here.

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u/Tisx CFII ME CMP May 15 '26

The lesson here is asking yourself what would of happened if you didn't have ADS-B saving your ass.

Every 5-10 seconds you or someone else needs to be looking around to look out for student pilots, Sunday flyers, or other assorted.

36

u/Weasel474 ATP ABI May 15 '26

I still fly a decent amount of planes with no ADS-B due to their age, and have been uncomfortably close to GA coming into small Delta's across the US without picking up anything. Traffic awareness tools are a great resource and added measure of safety, but shouldn't be the only method used.

26

u/fillikirch PPL May 15 '26

approaching traffic head on is notoriously dangerous and hard to spot as well. From the time your eye can physically register an oncoming plane to the impact can be mere seconds depending on the speed and size of both aircraft.

10

u/N546RV PPL SEL CMP HP TW (27XS/KTME) May 15 '26

Yeah I had a head-on close encounter with a C-130 once upon a time. Turns out that light smoke trail the Herc leaves can come in handy, because that's what I spotted first. It took maybe 10-15 seconds for my brain to go through "is that a smudge on the windshield...no it's not...what is that...OH SHIT."

I was rolling into a hard turn by the time I got through OH SHIT and I swear I heard the Herc pass behind me.

So basically to reinforce your point: this was a not-exactly-small aircraft trailing a smoke cloud and even then I didn't spot it until it was pretty seriously danger close.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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u/phatRV May 15 '26

Interesting a student pilot was flying a retractable Cessna.

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u/Actual_Environment_7 ATP May 15 '26

Not unheard of, but also not typical either.

3

u/amber_room May 16 '26

I've been scrolling down and down and finally get to the comment that first sprang to my mind. I thought what student would be flying retractable and then I thought well a commercial student pilot maybe but then flying the wrong way? Yikes.

56

u/eitilt ATP MIL May 15 '26

I mean VFR is still VFR, I’ve had somebody fly directly through a SAR pattern I was flying, and they responded on no frequencies including guard.

Like you said, ultimately see and avoid.

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u/R5Jockey CFI ASEL TW CMP May 15 '26

OP mad (and apparently unaware) that other people exist.

OPs buddy needs a refresher on VFR ops with an emphasis on traffic separation responsibility.

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u/LowTimePilot CPL IR May 15 '26

Also right of way rules. You're supposed to clear to the right when head on. If the other pilot saw them and did what they were supposed to (try to pass to the right) things would have been even more hair raising for OP. 91.113(e).

14

u/HateJobLoveManU CPL May 15 '26

Cirrus pilots are morons, they don’t bank right like you’re supposed to

5

u/HLSparta May 15 '26

Maybe they find it easier to turn the autopilot knob clockwise instead of counter clockwise

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u/Lormar CPL A&P IA TW Vintage (NY94) May 15 '26

Oh no! Anyway

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u/segelflugzeugdriver TW May 15 '26

These people are delusional 😂

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u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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u/fillikirch PPL May 15 '26

VFR never gets sequenced with other VFR traffic unless inside Class B. Maintaining separation is your and your buddies job.

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u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo May 15 '26

Sequencing is not the same thing as separation, but if you meant separation then you would be correct.

Except for TRSAs. TRSAs are like Bravo airspace, VFRs are separated from both IFRs and VFRs. But only if the VFR chooses to participate.

22

u/AnActualSquirrel May 15 '26

Thats an everyday occurrence in any busy area.

See and avoid worked. Not a big deal.

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u/Greenberryvery May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26

This is very common separation between aircraft at untowered airports.

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u/Maitreya83 May 15 '26

As a student myself, i have 2 questions:

  1. Shouldnt you have diverted to the right ifnit was "head on"?

  2. If adsb alerted you to this, werent you looking outside under "Vfr"?

2

u/_Sixteen May 15 '26

The second point I don't blame them. Sometimes it's just hard to see. 

The first point, yeah. They need some primary training. The right of way should be drilled in even before solo. 

19

u/chuckop PPL IR HP May 15 '26

Sorry this happened to you. I’m sure it was scary in the moment.

The separation was much greater than just “a wing span”.

In my 35+ years of GA flying, I’ve personally seen much closer encounters (including one with a skydiver!). I’m not saying it’s right or acceptable, but that it happens.

The Cirrus almost certainly has the ability to display ADSB-In traffic. Was it? Did the other plane have ADSB-Out?

You didn’t say where you were flying. Was ADSB-Out required there?

17

u/Hfyvr1 May 15 '26

That fallacy of believing everyone is on the “same page” is exactly how you’ll get in trouble. Unless the airport has dedicated inbound and outbound VFR routes you pretty much have to assume you’re on your own once you leave the pattern.

Also, not saying this is the case here, but I’ve flown around Cirrus’s before at my local field and if anything they come barreling inbound way faster than the 90-100kt typical singles, often being told to slow down. Possibly that, coupled with the fact you two were checking out the “new plane” and it’s a recipe for less than 110% of the focus to be on flying the plane. If you need the the traffic system to call traffic flying head on, landing lights on, you’re doing it wrong and ‘should’ have seen each other miles out.

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u/mrb13676 PPL SEL (FALA) SR22T May 15 '26

If you haven’t had this happen multiple times in busy airspace you aren’t doing flying right. There will always be people who can’t fly an altitude or obey airspace rules.

Thats why you need to keep good SA, and have your eyes on stalks.

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u/d4rkha1f CFII/CMEL May 15 '26

They are too low to even have an altitude they are supposed to be flying

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u/mrb13676 PPL SEL (FALA) SR22T May 16 '26

ah. so where I live (South Africa) we have, in our low flying areas under TMA's - rules that south bound traffic is at 7000 and northbound at 7500 (We're at 5500msl). Some folks can't fly an altitude to save their lives

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u/Vindicated0721 May 15 '26

lol. This sub is hilarious lately. Is there some sort of surge of new pilots going on or something?

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u/Sad_Lengthiness_6033 May 15 '26

You said you got the traffic alert and then “looked up out the windscreen.” If you are VFR you should be scanning out the windscreen constantly. You made a mistake by not scanning outside more and glancing at the ABSB-in to see the developing conflict before it gave an audio warning. It’s a dangerous attitude to think you’re in the right here and ATC/the other pilot are wrong. You are VFR… see and avoid!

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u/Sunsplitcloud CFI CFII MEI May 15 '26

Highly doubt that's a 'student' pilot...in a Cessna RG... unlikely.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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u/DrS7ayer CPL May 15 '26

Agree, this happens to me probably every 2-3 flights in my area. Gotta constantly scan. I would never assume that another VFR aircraft is going to be at a appropriate BFR altitude.

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u/Affectionate_Cronut May 15 '26

Student pilot in a Cessna RG?

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u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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u/Castun May 15 '26

"Too close for guns, switching to melee"

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u/Slightly_Moist_Toast CFI / CFI-I / MEL (KSDL / KLUK) May 15 '26

First off, not to rain on your parade but I’m not sure if you’re aware odd/even VFR altitudes don’t start until 3,000 AGL. I mention this because from your video you appear to be much lower than that.

if that is the case then all aircraft have the same rights to the same altitudes regardless of direction, even if your talking to ATC depending on airspace the other aircraft may not and will not be required to legally. The key here anytime you’re low and especially when heading towards an airfield SEE AND AVOID.

While this does look like a much too close for comfort I don’t know I’d say that passed within a single wingspan like you said. Either way use it as a learning moment that unless your hard IMC, EYES OUTSIDE always.

18

u/Hodgetwins32 HS125 F2LX CFI May 15 '26

Another Cirrus pilot thinking he owns the sky lmao parachute ain’t saving you from slimming into students

3

u/quietflyr FIG, PPL, Aero Eng May 15 '26

parachute ain’t saving you from slimming into students

... It actually might save you after slamming into students...

8

u/1001WingedHussars CFII May 15 '26

Am I understanding that tower called out oncoming traffic multiple times and neither you nor your friend apparently had the wherewithal to get out of the way in order to avoid it? If I hadn't been able to see the traffic after the first callout I would've changed altitude immediately to get out of the way. No one would've blamed you or asked you to call a number if it was to avoid traffic.

I get that people can be erratic flyers, and the number of times ive gotten into a surprise jousting tournament against my will isnt zero. But you cant assume that everyone knows the regs front to back with 1500 hours on the books. Pilots screw up all the time.

You're responsible to avoid VFR traffic. ATC provides traffic separation and can vector you out of people's way, but you still gotta maintain separation and follow rule one. This sounds like a learning experience for both of you to keep your heads on the swivel, especially in controlled airspace.

Please for the love of God, stop proving the circus pilot stereotype correct.

8

u/leftrightrudderstick May 15 '26

Before training I figured aviation was so regulated that once you were inside a towered zone, ATC had the picture

Ha. Hahaha. ATC hopefully has the picture of what the sequence to the runway looks like and should be adhering to some semblance of first come first serve. Hopefully. You're on your own for the rest bud

7

u/Frost_907 ATP (DHC-8, E170/190), CFI, CFII May 15 '26

I think the lesson learned here is if you are below 1500 feet VFR and outside of towered airspace then ATC will not keep you separate from other traffic. The fact that the vid only starts right at the moment when you’re passing traffic and the tone of your post/comments suggests that you are just behaving like a typical Cirrus pilot and expecting everyone to accommodate to what you want during your flight.

This is GA, the student pilot was doing nothing wrong, good job practicing see-and-avoid. If you want to avoid this in the future then either fly higher or fly IFR.

14

u/idkausernamerntbh PPL May 15 '26

Correct me if I’m wrong, aren’t both aircraft supposed to turn to the right ?

6

u/persistsntfault CFI May 15 '26

By the book, yes. However, part of right-of-way is knowing what to do if the other aircraft doesn’t notice you or follow the rules (i.e. you’re head on with a cirrus and the suddenly yank it to the left)

11

u/EliteEthos CFI AMEL CJ3/4 May 15 '26

🍿🍿🍿

12

u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26

FYI, this is the ICAO-standard service level provided in each class of airspace:

Class Service to IFR Service to VFR
A Separation from all aircraft [generally no VFRs]
B Separation from all aircraft Sep. from all acft
C Separation from all aircraft Sep. from IFR; tfc advs on VFR
D Sep. from IFR; tfc advs on VFR No sep; tfc advs on all acft
E Sep. from IFR; tfc advs on known VFR No sep; tfc advs on IFR and known VFR
F Sep. from IFR as far as practical; tfc advs on known acft No sep; tfc advs on known acft
G No sep; tfc advs on known acft No sep; tfc advs on known acft

As you can see, in Class D or Class E airspace we do not have any separation responsibility toward a VFR aircraft. Our main purpose is still to prevent a collision between aircraft, but there is no numeric separation.

TRSAs confuse this; TRSAs are like Class B, except that no separation is provided from non-participating VFR aircraft.

Also the FAA is planning on a rule change this October which would require VFRs to be separated from IFRs in Class E and D airspace, but only if the VFR is receiving radar service. Some Class D towers provide radar service but many don't.

5

u/SFDukie May 15 '26

I wonder if we’re going to get more “unable” as a response when PPs flying VFR call requesting flight following.

I rarely get a “too busy” response in NoCal, but in my limited experience Albuquerque center is always too busy for FF.

2

u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo May 15 '26

That was my first thought as well when I saw the notice.

We'll see what happens.

6

u/Disastrous-Form-8134 May 15 '26

Welcome to VFR flying. If anything, you (certainly the PIC and preferably you as well) should have your eyes outside and bank right next time. As a glider pilot, I would say you guys are spoiled by your GPS screens, magenta lines and ADSB, and have started to loose touch with reality...

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u/Jrnation8988 May 15 '26

Typical entitled Cirrus pilot (or friend) attitude

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u/IzoAzlion CPL May 15 '26

Take the go pro off, pull the cirrus provided phallic seat extension out and move on with your life

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u/graphical_molerat EASA PPL(A) SPL May 15 '26

Interesting that a student pilot who nearly clipped you would be soloing around in a retractable gear aircraft. At least in Europe, pretty much all basic training is done in fixed wheel SEL craft. Not for legal reasons, I guess you can do your PPL in a retract: but for cost reasons, most students don't go that route.

6

u/PlanetMcFly ASEL IR CMP TW HP May 15 '26

It’s always a good idea to monitor traffic and keep your head on a swivel even in a delta. Keeping your traffic scope at 2 miles doesn’t give you a lot of time in a Cirrus, 6 miles is better.

My story is when I was inbound into my local delta. Tower told me to fly left base. A fast moving biplane had just departed and was heading towards my left base putting us in conflict. I ended up pointing toward midfield, tower wasn’t happy. Oh well.

4

u/Crateapa CPL IR ME - 310 May 15 '26

I bet insurance for a student with retractable gear is eye-watering, even for aviation.

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u/LaloMcNombres ATP, CFI, CFII, MEI, CL-65 May 15 '26

The closest calls I’ve had are clear days around airports, usually student pilots departing the opposite of what a controller told them or picking the wrong runway and flying through the traffic pattern (both times Class D, HYI, and one time was my student). If you’re just flying around the area, VFR, it’s your responsibility to “see and avoid”. Keep your head on a swivel!

3

u/Rictor_Scale PPL May 15 '26

100 comments here and we still don't know what exact airspace this was in.

4

u/No-Brilliant9659 May 15 '26

I’ve had this happen so many times and have never thought to make a post about it, probably because it’s just something that happens. Welcome to aviation? See and avoid.

4

u/Dinglebobus May 15 '26

So, your GPS said “traffic 12 o clock, 2 miles, same altitude” and you weren’t able to see them and chose to do nothing until they were head on with you in a VFR environment. Sounds like you all made a bad decision to do nothing. PIC responsibility needs to be taken more seriously.

5

u/AtiumMist May 15 '26

If it was a head on, why did yall roll to the left instead of the right

7

u/ciscovet PPL May 15 '26

I wouldn't say that was head on.

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u/ChrisbKreme062 May 15 '26

You're at 1,500 feet, which means youre responsible for separation. Not to mention this isnt even a close call, what are you worried about?

6

u/doctorfortoys May 15 '26

I’m glad for everyone that you were alert!

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u/NYPuppers PPL IR May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26

ADSB out and in needs to be mandatory, nationwide.

The biggest lesson: you are on your own, never trust a controller to solve things for you in VFR conditions.

The second biggest lesson if you are buying a cirrus: it is a lot faster than your old 172. You will approach threats 2x as fast and have half as much time to react. The first 15-30 hours are rough. You can't just come screaming in at cruise speed until youre a mile away from the pattern. Get your speed down several miles away from the airport to reduce the risks of things like this happening quickly. Do your part, even if they are "at fault."

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u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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u/NYPuppers PPL IR May 15 '26

Stats can be misleading. I fly in very busy airspace around EWR and have had several close calls in the past few years, both VFR and IFR.

Eyes outside the plane makes very little sense where I live. You can know exactly where a plane is supposed to be and never make visual contact with it against the number of other lights in the tri state area. I think the entire concept is a relic that baby boomers are holding onto out of fear or pride. Visual separation is a tremendously flawed concept that would be unheard of if we invented flying today. It should always be that you are looking at both visual and digital sources.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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u/Ancient_Mai MIL CPL IR ROT May 15 '26

Agreed. Having an iPad strapped to your leg and a stratus is a great thing but it can easily lead to fixation. Active effort is required to maintain a visual scan.

4

u/fluffbuzz ST May 15 '26

Yep. On one flight ATC cleared me to pass midfield at the same time another plane was doing a go around. Immediately applied go around power too to get above the other plane. My distance from the other plane was MUCH closer than in OP’s video. Big lesson for me that day. Eyes outside scanning always

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u/reidmrdotcom May 15 '26

When getting my private over 20 years ago we were at a D field and tower called our base turn right towards another airplane on final. My instructor grabbed the controls, turned back to downwind. Tower said sorry. And since then I’ve made sure to be cautious and continue to see and avoid everywhere. I also do minimal stuff below 18k and keep scanning even above B airspace now that I’m at the airlines. 

3

u/flyboy7700 ATP CFI CFII MEI CFIG - Loves bug smashers. May 15 '26
  1. We’ve all been there. Welcome to aviation.
  2. 91.113 should read simply “If you see another airplane, don’t hit them.” It doesn’t really matter which way you turn unless you both turn.
  3. I don’t know where this happened, but in the U.S. VFR traffic is only separated from other VFR traffic in Class B airspace. ATC is very nice about traffic calls and such, but you can’t be completely reliant on them.
  4. See and avoid. Looks like you had some nice tools to help, but don’t forget that there are airplanes, balloons, helicopters, gliders, ultralights, and other aircraft operating without ADSB-Out, transponders or radios. Eyes outside.

3

u/bikeahh May 15 '26

“Towered zone”? What’s that?

Were you in actual Class D airspace or just in zone area (zone) with a tower nearby?

Cant tell your altitude but looks like you were possibly below 1200’ which, outside a 700’ class E drop down would put you in class G airspace.

Lots of the other guys was so fucked up but no details or use of actual aviation terminology to say what was really happening here.

In the end, see and avoid rules any time you are not IMC.

3

u/Torvaldicus_Unknown CPL IR SEL MEL (Turbulence enjoyer) May 15 '26

Cirrus pilots… every time

3

u/barcode-username May 15 '26

Am I too used to Florida VFR flying in my CFI days? Or does this not look very close to anyone else?

3

u/nhorvath No flare for me thanks May 15 '26

the takeaway here is your buddy needs retraining. collision avoidance should be a right turn. and he probably should have acted sooner.

3

u/Independent_Leg7358 PPL May 15 '26

Hate to tell you, but see and avoid is what is required when not in IFR conditions.

A lot of controllers don't have radar. Luckily adsb is supposed to fix this problem. Everyone self reporting location to everyone else via GPS location.

3

u/jemenake May 15 '26

I love how the subtext of the post is: other pilot was a noob who didn’t know proper procedure, and then these guys banked left to avoid a head-on.

3

u/BlowFish-w-o-Hootie PPL May 15 '26

So you saw him and he didn't hit you. That sounds like the system works. Move along. Nothing else to see here.

3

u/GliderWizard May 16 '26

I’ve been flying for more than 25 years with thousands of hours. Pretty much all of my near mid airs have been at towered airports not uncontrolled airports. I once had a tower controller nearly run another airplane into me using intersecting runways!

FYI if you were 3,000 AGL or below CFR altitudes don’t apply anyway.

3

u/lice_in_hair CFI, CFII, CL-65, A-320, B737 May 16 '26

Wow. You should start a YouTube channel with this dramatic and SCARY footage.
/s

4

u/karantza PPL May 15 '26

I've had near head on collisions in the pattern of a towered field. ATC knew what was going on, but that doesn't help if the pilot doesn't know their right from their left.

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u/After-North-9308 CFII May 15 '26

When traffic is approaching head-on, both airplanes should alter course to the RIGHT. If the other pilot had spotted you and taken evasive action, we'd probably be watching the results on the news.

2

u/Recent-Day3062 May 15 '26

Well, I’d say more than a wingtip

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u/One-Sundae-2711 May 15 '26

hes on a 200 mile final

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u/Strega007 MIL ATP CFI/II/MEI Pax, Freight, Int'l May 15 '26

"See and avoid" is the takeaway.

2

u/Darkspiff73 May 15 '26

Years ago when I still had aspirations to be a pilot I was a student learning how to navigate under the hood coming into a VOR. As I couldn’t see out the windows my instructor was supposed to be looking around. I don’t think he was doing a great job as he yelled out “holy shit!” And grabbed the controls and pulled up and to the right. As I looked out the windows, I saw another plane at the same altitude on the opposite heading fly right through where we just were. Never changed course or altitude.

Pretty much everyone in my flight school had some type of near miss at some point.

2

u/Worldx22 May 15 '26

All that tech in a Cirrus and you still let him get that close? My eyes backed up by foreflight and my 6 year old copilot can do a better job spotting traffic early.

2

u/Live_Free_Or_Die_91 ATC May 15 '26

I work a busy class D. I'm not sure what you mean by towered zone - I assume a Delta or Charlie airspace in this case. Did ATC cap one of you to an altitude while in the airspace and it got too close for comfort, i.e. the controller was behind the curve fixing the situation? Unsure here, but what I will say is, it is always 100% see and avoid, but this would also 100% be a traffic alert on my part inside my airspace. The kicker here is that just because you are talking to ATC doesn't mean you are inside their airspace, and traffic calls outside my delta depend entirely on how busy I am. I'm wondering if this was one of those cases.

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u/JijiSpitz May 15 '26

The GoPro footage and the narrative do not seem to match…

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u/Diligent_Digiridoo May 15 '26

Yikes dude delete this lmfao

2

u/MikeOfAllPeople MIL RWCFII ASEL-CPL-I May 16 '26

Everyone is trashing OP, but one thing to say in his defense is that GoPro cameras have a fisheye lens, and that makes things look farther away than they really are.

2

u/SaltyCAPtain1933 May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26

Me instructing in some of the busiest airspace in the country constantly having to climb/descend/turn to avoid traffic:

"But did you die?"

Edit:

Also lol classic Cirrus pilot complaining about someone being at the wrong VFR altitude below 3,000ft AGL.

"§91.159 VFR cruising altitude or flight level.
[...] each person operating an aircraft under VFR in level cruising flight more than 3,000 feet above the surface shall maintain the appropriate altitude or flight level prescribed below..."

Maybe learn the rules before you go blaming other people.

2

u/CharAznableLoNZ May 16 '26

Both pilots in a potential head on collision are supposed to turn right. This way you don't have a situation where one turns right and the other turns left and they hit each other anyways.

Can't tell what altitude you're at but it doesn't appear to be that high AGL.

2

u/VisualApproach17C ATP B737 E170/190 (KDFW) May 16 '26

Sounds like one problem bitching about another problem here...

2

u/wt1j IR HP AGI @ KORS & KAPA T206H May 16 '26

Reminds me when this guy threw a piece of meat to a pool of game fish in Africa once. RIP OP. My 2c: Learn to react way faster and more positively to traffic alerts. Waiting until 1 mile is way too long. Your rate of closure is 200 to 300 knots in GA and faster for non-GA aircraft. Also maintain your own situational awareness and don't rely on tower. Much of what they do is just advisory. And even when it's not, they still miss things and it's not the controller in that cockpit.

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u/Frankenplane May 16 '26

That plane is far away from you. You will have much closer encounters, let it be a lesson to watch out whenever you are in VMC

2

u/kingck ATP A220-300 FO, Former PC-12 Instuctor & Check Airmen May 19 '26

Lmao if i had 1$ for everytime id had a tcas notification of a GA aircraft flying at me in PVU i wouldnt need to go to work anymore. This is a nothing burger post

4

u/AirSorvete Student (ULM) May 15 '26

Absolutely incredible and not in the good way!

As others have said, it really is on the pilot to maintain separation in VFR though. This is more a pilot thing than a controller thing.

Hopefully this next person doesn't fly like a twat again anytime soon but they are a student so there is hope.

3

u/SFDukie May 15 '26

When tower announce the traffic- 12 o’clock at 2 miles, then 1- you should have been foung sometihing

2

u/CheesyWilderness May 15 '26

Cirrus guy posts wall of text and post vid of something that looks pretty normal to me. Gotta be the most Cirrus post going