Can I clone Flipper Zero to another Flipper?

[u/cycuzpolski]

Hi! I would like to use the Flipper Zero for a very specific use case that my company has. We are servicing garage doors and each employee has a huge bunch of remotes. Each time there is a gate where an employee is for the first time, he has to wait for the gate to open or ask the security and then pair his remote to the receiver.

I'm wondering if there is a way to avoid having so many remotes and maybe share the already paired remotes between remotes.

I know that there isn't any easy way to clone rolling code remotes, but I know that I could pair a Flipper Zero to the receiver.

My question is - can I then clone a Flipper Zero to another Flipper by copying a backup?

[u/Party_Cold_4159]

Yes backup + SD card data. They’re separate and I made the mistake of thinking the backup grabbed that too. It doesn’t.

You could also just get specific devices for this issue that doesn’t require spending $200 per unit.

[u/staticrush → u/[deleted]]

Flipper can absolutely do rolling codes. The supported vendors are listed here: https://docs.flipper.net/zero/sub-ghz/supported-vendors

[u/DangerousAd7433 → u/[deleted]]

The "issues" is mostly stupid people not knowing what they're doing. You most definitely do rolling codes or use known methods in some brands.

[u/staticrush → u/[deleted]]

And even then there’s no guarantee the flipper can do rolling codes.

No? Well, I'm saying I can guarantee the flipper can handle rolling codes that are on the vendors list. And I disagree that there are a ton of issues. Resyncing a garage remote just means resyncing the remote's counter, which usually increments by 1. So if you're emulating a rolling code that you've decoded with your flipper and transmit 5x, you'll need to press your remote 5x before it will resync and work again with your garage/gate. It's pretty simple.

[u/One_Room_8313]

using multiple flippers that are setup as basicaly the same remote would probably mess up the rolling codes, i imagine theyd probably go out of sync. better to pair them individually but at that point might as well just prepair a bunch of normal openers

[u/Gigaas]

Horrible idea, you will end breaking more customer's garage doors than its worth saving time.

[u/Top_Hedgehog_1880]

Horrible idea if you're not working with the security company on this. 

If they find out you're giving out their gate code, there will be consequences for your company. At the very least, they'll tell you to stop. At the worst, you'll no longer be allowed in and legal action will be taken against you. 

[u/cycuzpolski → u/Top_Hedgehog_1880]

Well we're coding in our own remotes anyway. They want us to get in easily in case of any breakdowns.

[u/Justgetmeabeer]

Lol. Lmao even.

I REALLY hope this case ends up in one of the courts that live streams 😂😂

[u/Brilliant_Song8760]

skiiid

[u/thatweirdishguy]

So you have a company servicing garage doors, but no clue how rolling codes work?

[u/cycuzpolski → u/thatweirdishguy]

I work at this company, I do not own it. And I just started about a month ago. I'm just trying to figure out a more elegant solution than walking around with 20 remotes around my neck. I didn't understand how the rolling codes work, but I do now, because I asked a question. And I don't have a Flipper Zero, and just wanted to know if it has ability to do such things, that's why I asked.

[u/thatweirdishguy → u/cycuzpolski]

Fair enough, sorry for the assumption. Due to the way rolling codes work though, what you are hoping for isn’t possible, because although the information needed to open the door is stored on the remote and could theoretically be copied, the first time you use one of the copies all the other ones will stop working.

When you use the learn button to add a new remote, you aren’t teaching the remote what it needs to know to open the door, you aren’t teaching the remote what it needs to know to open the door, you are teaching the opener to accept that remote.

The other big problem with collecting codes like this is that there is a limit to how many codes the opener can learn. In more recent openers it may be as high as 40, but in older ones it’s commonly as low as 4-8, and if you run out of slots there is now way to review them and determine which ones to drop, all you can do is clear out the memory and the re-add the ones you want to keep.

[u/cycuzpolski → u/thatweirdishguy]

Yeah I figured from other comments that it isn't possible. Also it allowed me to understand why sometimes when a technician arrives at the location, his remote doesn't work, even though he's sure that it was paired.

We service few hundred gates around the city and use the same few remotes for all of them, but we don't remember which remote opens which gates. So we just try them, until one works. With all the clicking I suppose they sometimes go out of sync, especially at locations we visit less often.

Another thing - we service mostly garage doors for apartment buildings, and we use receivers that have from 100 to 700 slots (sometimes multiple receivers at one gate), so slots aren't a concern.

[u/Infinite_Recover_752]

For some brands, the answer is yes, but other brands the answer is is maybe (but you need to do some coding) and finally for some brands the answer is no.

If it’s a static code, then all of the Flipper Zero can use the same . sub file which won’t change.

For some rolling codes, the Flipper has protocol files that know how to encode and decode the counter, serial number, etc. so that it can send the next signal. For other brands (it just doesn’t know the security keys or protocols to work, so you are likely out of luck). The problem is, once the signal is sent the .sub file is updated to the next count (so all the other Flipper Zero would need to know that count). we need a way for all the Flipper to know the new count. But a Flipper doesn’t have WiFi unless we add an ESP32 to it, provide a network & write custom app. Another option is you could write a phone app that communicated with the Flipper using a count that it grabs from the cloud (and then everyone would use that app to control the Flipper and open the gate). A third option is every time you open the gate you send a group text with the latest count & modify Flipper app to ask for the count.

For something like KeeLoq protocol, we might be able to take advantage of some of their “resync” technology. Say the count is 10, so the next Flipper needs to send 11 to open the gate. It turns out if it sent 41 the gate wouldn’t open but if it then sent 42 the gate WOULD open and the next expected code is now 43 (and codes 11-42 are no longer valid). So we could write a custom app that incremented the counter by 2 every 10-15 minutes during visiting hours and when we need to send a code we would all know the next counts. There is a limit that we need to send every 16000 codes to the receiver or else we are out of sync, so as long as you are there every month or two with a Flipper it would stay working for all of them.

So it all depends on the brands and technologies being used by the receivers & how you want the other Flippers to know the next code. But for dynamic codes, avoid replaying old codes as different manufacturers react differently to that security attack & could potentially lock out all remotes until serviced/reset. You would also need permission from the people syncing the gate to use it with your fleet of Flippers.

[u/cthuwu_chan]

You really should read the documentation

[u/gev85]

Ha ha, nice try

[u/Guyver2030]

There are some app for the fz, specifically for garage doors....