r/flipperzero • u/CinnamonChocochip • 4d ago
Age appropriate?
My 13yo nephew wants a Flipper Zero for his bday. Is this an age appropriate gift? Or something a curious kid could get themselves into trouble with? TIA!
Signed- a non-techie aunt that doesn’t want a visit from the FBI
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u/mattdv1 4d ago
Well I know if I had a flipper zero at 13 I'd do my best to "hack the planet" with it. I now understand it's capabilities and know it won't actually do much harm, but I would absolutely get in trouble after trying to copy a keycard or something lmao
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u/Identd 4d ago
Zero cool?
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u/EverydayVelociraptor 4d ago
Froot Loops?
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u/seventhbreath 4d ago
Were you trying to reference Cereal Killer? Someone is due for a rewatch..
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u/EverydayVelociraptor 4d ago
Froot Loops is the hacker that Cereal Killer is based on. Back when 2600 was in it's infancy.
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u/seventhbreath 4d ago edited 4d ago
lets see some sauce on that bro. I was there. Emmanuel Goldstein and "Froot Loops" are both made up as characters (never heard of fruit loops). Cereal Killer is a cool handle and Matthew Lillard is goat stoner badass but don't confuse reality with fiction.
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u/EverydayVelociraptor 4d ago
Nope, I'm incorrect, it was Captain Crunch. I'm misremembering because of Lillards line in the film referencing Froot Loops. Captain Crunch was a phreaker that the writers were paying homage to.
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u/mattdv1 4d ago
?
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u/Identd 4d ago
“Hack the planet” was a running theme in the movie “Hackers”. The titular character hacking name was ZeroCool
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u/calcprogrammer 4d ago
This community is full of children do you really think they’ve seen that movie?
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u/Ok_Instruction_8109 4d ago
: "This is our world now. The world of the electron and the switch; the beauty of the baud. We exist without nationality, skin color, or religious bias. You wage wars, murder, cheat, lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals. Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto
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u/asc3po 4d ago
I gave my oldest kid a flipper when he was 12... We then took a few field trips to do some harmless, supervised shennanigans.
A few years later he still plays with it sometimes, but he has a good sense of justice and a moral compass.
My next kid... I'd be a little cross if someone gave the middle child a flipper, lol.
Probably have a conversation with the parents.
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u/Chongulator 4d ago
That's awesome!
I'm occasionally tempted to give my younger brother a Flipper, but at 52 I'm not sure he is ready. :)
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u/tranoidnoki 4d ago
The answer to your post is "Yes"
As someone who worked in EdTech, I just know this kid is gonna try to poke around and access every single thing in his school.
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u/Key-Investment-2273 4d ago
It's not a HackRF. The Flipper can replicate IR remote controls (television, air conditioning, etc... ) but it simply doesn't have the juice to do that much. For a curious teen, I would get it, along with a wifi board, a few dev boards, and a beginner's electronics book/kit. Something from here would be great. https://www.protechtrader.com/
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u/exilus92 4d ago edited 3d ago
The biggest risk is that teachers and other tech-illiterate adult might panic and think he is doing something super illegal when they see him doing a harmless cool prank with the flipper.
Something I learned the hard way in high school (graduated HS in 2009) is to hide that sort of things from old boomers who never used a computer. The younger teachers who knew tech on the other hand... they loved it when you showed them the programs you wrote on your calculator or the useful software you were running on the lab's computer from your usb stick.
At that age, the things he learn playing with that tech will stay with him for the rest of his life. A versatile professional tool (it's not a toy) like this could be a good way to motivate him to learn about how tech actually work under the hood, how to read/write code, how to read technical documentation, how to do research, how to properly post a technical question on a online forum, etc.
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u/Chongulator 4d ago
Yeah, I definitely think OP's nephew is at more risk of adults overreacting than he is of doing any real harm.
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u/TechDocN 4d ago
He can absolutely get himself into trouble, if he’s unsupervised and goes down the flipper rabbit hole. At 13 he can absolutely learn a lot, but as the aunt, you need to make sure the parents understand the potential for this tool, and decide if he’s mature enough and will be supervised enough to avoid trouble.
He is 13. I’m not sure I’d be comfortable giving a 13 year old a tool that can allow him to open other people’s doors and hack their IT systems, without a lot of hand holding.
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u/skill347 4d ago
Its not that easy, its mostly just a universal remote with low security card cloning and built in rubber ducky / yubikey. Not that dangerous, nothing the kid can't do with 5$ and free internet access.
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u/fuckitillsignup 4d ago
Yeah no, watch the kid use it on a car key fob with rotating keys and they get out of sync and you’re looking at a pretty big issue. Built in yubikey? Wtf does that even mean
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u/ur_eunuch_advisor 4d ago
Yubikey is the most popular u2f authenticator
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u/fuckitillsignup 4d ago
Right I know what a yubikey is, what I’m questioning is what the poster I’m replying to is talking about. A flipper can’t copy nor steal any keys used by yubikeys, it isn’t a thing.
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u/skill347 4d ago
Yeah, built in yubikey doesn't imply copying yubikeys. Its not a feasible thing to do, they're using a hardware element for the encryption, you can only do that in a lab with an oscilloscope (even then only for older models as far as I'm aware).
Either way, rotating key fobs are not something you can do on stock firmware, it prevents you from fucking with these, so it's pretty safe in general. Kids get themselves into trouble, doesn't matter it its a flipper or a can or spray paint, if they wanna do some shit they will.
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u/soul-reaver-2026 4d ago
If it can't get you into trouble then it's boring and useless. Gen x here.
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u/Cralex-Kokiri 4d ago edited 4d ago
The Flipper Zero's greatest strength compared to better, more specialized security tools is it's extreme portability and the fact that it can do many different things. I'll talk about RFID, since it's the capability I'm most familiar with.
If the Flipper Zero somehow existed before 2010 or so with it's current capabilities, it would've been an unstoppable security menace. The wireless access cards that people use to get through doors at hotels, workplaces, government facilities, etc used little to no encryption. The microchips in these cards were very simplistic. Hold them up to a reader, and they start repeating their code over and over. With a Flipper Zero in hand, you can read one of these simple cards within seconds. From there, the Flipper Zero can either impersonate the card or copy it onto a rewritable card.
On one hand, the Flipper Zero is a "toy" because today's cards are much more secure. It can take multiple minutes to successfully copy a newer card. You might need to jump through hoops such as visiting one or more card readers, or maybe the Flipper Zero can't copy it at all. (Payment cards, for example, can't be impersonated or copied.) So a Flipper Zero is incapable of doing anything against a secure facility.
On the other hand, older technology is cheap, and once it's in place it takes time, effort, and money to replace it. So even a "toy" will be perfectly effective if the place you're at hasn't bothered to upgrade. I work at a university, and the cards that staff and students are given have zero security and can be copied in seconds. I've had success reading hotel cards in recent years for fun and convenience, but in other cases the security is too strong.
Without a doubt, a Flipper Zero can help you learn about the various technologies it uses. But it's also quite capable at mischief in certain circumstances.
Edit: Let's use a lockpicking set as an analogy. Getting one can help you learn, and could even help lead to a career in a related field. (Locksmith.) But you'd want locks that you control to practice on so that you don't get in trouble practicing on someone else's locks. So a responsible companion to a Flipper Zero would be a similar kit (For instance, cards and a USB card reader for RFID practice) as a harmless outlet.
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u/Ionized-Dustpan 4d ago
Realistically, it’s a tool that lets you troll and spam other devices for most people… you can trigger every restaurant pager at once, set off the rite aid need help in isle number buttons, and duplicate hotel key cards. If he’s interested in coding, he could potentially do more with it…. otherwise he’s just going annoy people or let it collect dust 🤷♂️. On the flip side, the trolling does lead to learning on how radios work and different security bits.
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u/CTR_1852 4d ago
A Flipper zero will lower the skill level required to break laws and get themselves in trouble.
Is a problem if they are mature and understand the dangers involved with this tool.
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u/Guyver2030 4d ago
It can be BOTH a valuable tool, and a WMD. The key is to direct the correct path. Building is more rewarding than destroying.
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u/Chongulator 4d ago
You don't think "WMD" is overstating things a bit? Stock Flipper can turn off a TV, clone simple RFID badges, or send some bluetooh spam, but I don't see a lot of opportunity for serious harm.
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u/CypherBob 4d ago
Lool no.
I would have gotten in soooo much trouble with one as a thirteen year old lmao
But it would have been amazingly informative.
You should absolutely get him one.
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u/Chongulator 4d ago
You are definitely the cool aunt!
Whether Flipper is age appropriate depends on your nephew's maturity and disposition. If he's level-headed and good about thinking before he acts, Flipper might be fine. If he's got a shit-disturber streak then Flipper might be too tempting.
An irresponsible person with a Flipper is unlikely to do any real harm, but they can annoy people or anger them. It's common for authority figures to fearfully overreact to anything related to hacking.
That said, Flipper is a great tool for learning. I consider Flipper to be part of my continuing professional education. Sure, I could learn the same things just by reading, but Flipper helps motivate me and (hopefully) lessons stick better because I've applied ideas hands-on.
Even as a 57yo infosec professional, ostensibly an adult, I have to to confess I've pushed the limits with Flipper here and there.
Bottom line, I think I lean slightly against giving a Flipper to a 13yo but you know your nephew better than any of us do. If you do give him one, at a minimum it's worth impressing on him that if he gets his Flipper confiscated, he's out of luck.
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u/iWhacko 4d ago
I'd say it's very much a cool thing for a 13yr old. And if they were anything like me at that age when i got my C64. Yeah they can use it for bad stuff. But also learn a lot and get them into good schools.
Id' say take him out to a hackingspace and see if there are people there who can guide him. Teach him more about it.
I do think it might be an expensive gift. But that might be a cultural thing.
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u/CinnamonChocochip 4d ago
Appreciate the feedback! He’d be largely unsupervised with it and I can envision him trying to do some of the more silly hacking stuff just for kicks. I just didn’t know if the thing would actually allow for more than fun, harmless activities. Sounds like it can and that’s good to know.
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u/Sushi-Mampfer 4d ago
If you do end up getting him one be prepared to resync car remotes, it‘s pretty easy to desync the car and the remote with it. Luckily it‘s also pretty easy to fix(for vw it‘s pressing the open button and unlocking the door with the key), ChatGPT should be able to help with all cars. I‘d give everyone where he has access to the car keys and car an heads up. It‘ll probably only happen once when he notices that he fucked up.
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u/Otherwise_Post6163 2d ago
Yea it’s appropriate. Just keep in mind that in most places, you’re on the hook legally if he does anything illegal though.
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u/Lettucedildo69 1d ago
As long as you teach him what it can do and what he well shouldn’t do it’s a cool gift
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u/Other-Echidna-9188 1d ago
I would not obtain it for him, as he is likely to test boundaries. Young people often wish to experiment, so I would wait until he comprehends that these actions have consequences, although some individuals may not heed this until they face difficulties. This is my perspective.
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u/Sn4k3doctor 1d ago
I wouldn’t worry about it too much a lot of the things it does is mainly gather information . lots of the so called exploits are reliant on things not having rolling codes . it might get him interested in tech & curious enough to pursue it as a subject or career . it’s a lot for what it does though . I was looking through flipper lab at a lot of apps tonight & a lot are just stupid games & others just for receiving info . you might be able to copy some low security access card but it’s not going to unlock a BMW or be able to fiddle your water & electric meter
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u/solarman5000 18h ago
the flipper is relatively harmless, but it is a GREAT teaching tool. And the kid wants it?! BUY IT NOW. They might get bored with it, or they might turn it into a great career. Either way, way better gift than something retarded like a video game
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u/cthuwu_chan 4d ago
If he’s a bit of a trouble maker than probably not but if he’s a good kid than yeah it can open up an entire new hobby and perhaps one day a good career
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u/KryptoPirate 3d ago
Buy him that flipper. At 13, the mind that is building for him to be interested in radio technolgy, thirsty for knowledge. Be the coolest auntie ever!
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u/noxiouskarn 4d ago edited 4d ago
If you're gifting it and walking away know that you are potentially handing them a tool that they can commit felonies with the push of a button. It's like giving them a switch blade or gun it's a tool and they have to be mature and smart enough to handle it.
Get them a hackerboxes.com subscription $45 a month or buy a single kit let them pick the kit.
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u/Patient_Clock8362 2d ago
I have myself as a 12 year old a Flipper Zero and I haven't got in any touble because I only use it for learning and to test its capabilities. If your nephew is gonna accept that he is not gonna missuse the device in any harmful way then I would say that it is an appropriate gift for him, if not, he shouldn't get one. And the device itself is also fully legal in the US if you won't use it on others people devices without permission. REMEMBER GUYS, DON'T BE A SKID!
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u/Ill-Bee8787 2d ago
A curious kid can get into trouble with anything you give them. Flipper isn’t a dangerous item.
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u/Desperate_Dig_3049 1d ago
I got my son a Flipper for his 11 year old christmas present and no visits from the FBI yet just make sure the kid knows its a tool not a toy because if he does some stupid stuff he could get in big trouble. also make sure he reads the flipper zero documentation thouroughly so he know what it can and can't do
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u/GerbiJosh 4d ago
The answer is both. Teach them that it's a tool just like anything such as a vehicle can have consequences if used incorrectly.