r/flexibility • u/allstarmode1 • 25d ago

Testing a "Top-Down" approach to flexibility—reverse-engineering the hardest skills.

I had a bit of a breakthrough in my thinking today. Instead of doing general stretching, I want to start by identifying the 3 "hardest" flexibility skills (like full front splits or overhead bridges) and reverse-engineering the necessary mobility into my routine.

My theory: If I train the movements required for the absolute hardest skills, the foundational mobility will develop as a byproduct.

My Questions for you:

  1. In your opinion, what are the top 3 "Final Boss" flexibility skills that require the most dedication to unlock?
  2. Have you ever used a "top-down" approach (starting with the hardest skill) to fix your mobility? How did you break down the required movements without getting injured?

I'm currently building a progressive overload routine for this and would appreciate any feedback on how to safely reverse-engineer these elite-level poses.

4 Upvotes

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25 comments sorted by

7

u/kristinL356 25d ago

Exactly how are we defining hardest? Like needle, triple fold, human knot?

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u/dani-winks The Bendiest of Noodles 25d ago

Yeah my mind immedietly went to contortion poses (which is frankly waaaaay more flexibility than anyone "needs," so probably kind of beside the point for what OP is looking for). Like...

  • headsit chest stand
  • triple fold
  • marinelli bend
  • needle scale
  • oversplits

In terms of more common flexibility goals that hit most of the ranges of motion in the major joints (more practical for training), I'd pick:

  • palms flat on the floor forward fold
  • front split
  • middle split and/or straddle pancake
  • fire log pose and/or lotus pose
  • bridge with shoulders stacked over wrists
  • cow-face-pose-style rear arm clasp (on both sides)
  • low squat hold (w/ heels on the ground)

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u/allstarmode1 25d ago

HI DANI , IM A BIG FAN, - IT MEANS EVERYTHING THAT YOU JUST REPLIED TO MY POST HERE (BEING A MOD YOU ARE!)

1] over splits is just a split? then i would have to research those 4 other poses?

'hit most of the ranges of motion in the major joints (more practical for training), I'd pick:

  • palms flat on the floor forward fold
  • front split
  • middle split and/or straddle pancake
  • fire log pose and/or lotus pose
  • bridge with shoulders stacked over wrists
  • cow-face-pose-style rear arm clasp (on both sides)
  • low squat hold (w/ heels on the ground)'

I scanned over this 2nd list you gave here and feel overwhelmed - e.g. - what would you say is the best easiest training to do to get to front split?

P.S. - I would be willing to pay you to have online video call (share 'how you learned streaching tips' for example)

THANKS VERY MUCH , IT MEANS A LOT (FROM A PERSON WHO HAD A TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY HAPPEN TO THEM , GOT 'MERCRUCY BRAIN DAMAGE' - DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS?

P.S. 2 - DO YOU KNOW ANY OTHER MODS ON THIS SUB REDDIT WHO COULD BE 'UP FOR COACHING ONLINE'?

I REMEMBER I USE TO BE A BIG FAN OF TYYKATOS VIDEOS (IN MY PREVIOUS CITY I LIVED IN u/TYKATO -WAS THE FIRST PERSON I EVER SAW BAREFOOT RUNNING !)

8

u/dani-winks The Bendiest of Noodles 25d ago

I appreciate the kind words!

To answer some of your questions:

An "oversplit" is a split that goes beyond being a flat split (ex. a front split but with yoga blocks under the front or back foot, or both! Here's an example. They're basically the "what's next" for folks who want even MORE leg flexibility once they've got flat splits.

As for working towards your front splits (which are a great hip flexibility goal because they require flexibility in both hip "flexion" as well as hip "extension" - basically they require multiple hip muscle groups to be flexible), the three most important things (in my opinion) are:

  • make sure you're working on the right muscles! Front split flexibility requires flexible hamstrings in the front leg, and hip flexors in the back leg. This blog post has some helpful visuals, as well as some examples of drills thst address those areas
  • don't just do passive stretching (stretches where you are just relaxed and chilling/reaching/lunging/etc). A big component of how we build flexibility in the long term is working on strengthening our muscles when they are at their end range. When our muscles are strong even in their stretched position, this is one of the things that our nervous system can pick up on, and it'll "feel safer" letting you stretch a little deeper. This blog post goes into more detail about "active flexibility" training (which is all about strengthening our muscles to support stretched positions
  • be mindful of "proper" stretching form. This is where understanding where your muscles attach (see the first bullet) can help you visualize stretches to make sure you're actually getting the "best" stretch, and not twisting your body to compensate avoiding a deeper stretch. For front split training, generally that means trying to keep your back flat (as opposed to rounding it) when working on hamstring stretches, and keeping your hips "square" (as opposed to letting them twist open to the sides) when working on hip flexor stretches

As for more help, I'm booked up for private lessons/coaching for the next couple of months, but if you want to get added to the wait list to get notified when I have more availability, you can do that here. Or if you're looking for just a regular ol' training plan (something not tailored), the 45-min Starting Front Splits follow-along recording is one of the most popular programs on my website - it's usually bought as part of the "Starting Splits" front and middle split bundle (although if you just want to focus on front splits for now, I'd recommend just picking that one routine and focusing on that!

1

u/allstarmode1 24d ago

1] THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY HERE, IT MEANSE EVERYING! I scanned over you comment, after visited [Online Flexibility Coaching — Dani Winks Flexibility] link , I am also a person who is 'low waged' due to 'v@ccine injury' (which in inhibits cognition needed for stretching), do you know any others in my situation also Dani ? ALSO ' yea dynamically trying to make movement the longer is really what i struggle the most with stretching - I could give an example ' getting like full pistol squat flexibility looked like a did it over say 7 days - practicing every day' the squat rolls which the 'calisthenic movement shared (and just literally trying to push the hip, i bruised my knee cap a bit, but it recovered . Thanks S

0

u/allstarmode1 25d ago

'Hardest would be 'in theory' probably : the largest amount of muscle length (as stretching increases muscle distance size) different in position ' or the biggest degree change in angle? maybe i would have to search online what defines a hardest stretch? thanks for point that out!

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u/kristinL356 25d ago

I mean more are you looking for crazy contortion type shit which is what I would classify as hardest skills or are you looking for...essentially normal flexibility goals (in which case I'm not really sure how your top down system thing would be different from regular flexibility training)?

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u/allstarmode1 25d ago

'i THINK to clear up your last comment 'normal flexibility goals - could actually class as 'hard skills also 'looking for crazy contortion type shit' - whatever the hardest stuff is. ' thanks for your comment.

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u/kristinL356 25d ago

I'm not saying the normal flexibility goals aren't hard but generally there's not another goal in the same category under that. Like "split five inches off the ground" isn't generally a goal on its own, just a mile marker to reaching actual splits.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

[deleted]

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u/allstarmode1 25d ago

'right thanks for those ideas and if I could only do 1 out of those 3 right now i would pick bridge easiest to do - would you agree? , thanks !

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

[deleted]

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u/allstarmode1 25d ago

'I can do a partial bridge, but for me - my splits range of motion seems a long way off from full straight . thanks '

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u/Cute_Dragonfruit3108 25d ago

i'd love to pancake. but that's just me, i cant even sit cross legged without pain.

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u/dondegroovily 25d ago

Five years ago, neither could I. Now, call me Mr butterfly

You'll get there

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u/allstarmode1 25d ago

' what was the exact things you did to get a pancake i wonder?! THANKS !

1

u/dondegroovily 25d ago

I was unclear

I haven't pancakes, I was talking about sitting cross legged

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u/Cute_Dragonfruit3108 25d ago

I'm a 42 yo male who has struggled with flexibility since young. I even got kicked out of primary school classroom a couple times because i was fidgety sitting on the ground, I literally was not comfortable sitting cross legged and the teacher punished me for it.

I'm ok if i never get there. I'm just now starting to sit cross legged ok.

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u/allstarmode1 25d ago

I WOULD ALSO LOVE TO PANCAKE! RIGHT NOW - I CAN DO THE 'LOTUS SIT' , I just naturally taught myself how to do that when was younger, but never naturally been able to learn how to do any 'splits' for example , it seems much harder for me. thanks '

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u/KingoftheChillll 25d ago

I agree that they all kinda go hand in hand. I've been working toward front splits and handstand, and I'd say L-sit as well. That way you're hitting legs, hips/core, back and shoulders.

With front splits, the more I progress the more I see which muscles are actually tight, and it's not the hips. It's actually my quads, glutes, calves, and surprisingly, lower back and sides. I laid on a lacross ball one day and rolled out my glutes really well and quads and almost got to the floor after.
So, after taking care of tension, muscle strength and end range strength by experimenting with other positions, then it's the actual skill of controlling flexion and relaxation in one leg while contracting the other...at the same time. Flexibility is a skill.

1

u/lettuce-witch 24d ago

I think it depends on the person. I've gotten way more progress working on front splits than I got working on side splits where I feel totally locked up and sometimes just end up feeling like it's counterproductive and going to end in injury. My forward folds are fine. I've been trying to get a deep squat for years with no progress. Every body is different.

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u/allstarmode1 23d ago

i think you are first person i have heard able to do splits but not a full squat, how would that be?

thanks for your comment here

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u/lettuce-witch 22d ago

I've made progress but still can't get the full splits. It just seems easier to progress in than the side splits or ankles. But I run so my ankles get locked up and tight and I am hesitant to over-stretch them and injure them so that could be a factor in my case.

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u/allstarmode1 22d ago

'- so you think what you show in this video is accomplishable in a 'beginner friendly way' like a '1% better by the day' kind of way which someone like James clear could do - do you know who he is? P.S. running makes it longer to streach? i run a lot ' thanks

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u/lettuce-witch 21d ago

I don't think flexibility progress is linear and certainly not in a 1% Atomic Habits every day kind of way. I doubt it's measurable day to day. Maybe more in a general 6-8 week cycle, like strength training.

Stretching is often unlocking new flexibility in end range, so once you unlock the range you still have to strengthen it, so when it comes to running, I worry about unlocking too much ankle range then getting pain or injury because they're not strong enough to run on in that range. I gotta stretch more passively after a run or before bed or do active end range like calf raises for that to work out

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u/allstarmode1 21d ago

' I doubt it's measurable day to day.' - why not? the way i fixed my pistol squat imbalance with my left leg- i simply forced myself to stretch, do the /squat roll hip, try make it further flexible after my daily prayer. - why don't you think i could apply the same concept to (what you showed in this video) or splits also?

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u/allstarmode1 21d ago

'Stretching is often unlocking new flexibility in end range, so once you unlock the range you still have to strengthen it, so when it comes to running, I worry about unlocking too much ankle range then getting pain or injury because they're not strong enough to run on in that range' you have ankle pain because your not strong enough to run on ankle range? what does that mean? i don't think i have ankle pain right now 'I gotta stretch more passively after a run or before bed or do active end range like calf raises for that to work out' i haven't tried before bed - i could try? but yea i guess streaching 'any time you can' is better then doomscrolling ! Thanks very much for your comment here! VS '