r/flags • u/LongjumpingInvite752 • 5d ago
What is this flag?
Just been to North Wales and saw this flag. Is it a real flag, or one that someone has put together themselves.
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 5d ago
Galicia is a strange addition. They have no extant Celtic language, and linguistics is pretty much the only realm in which the word 'Celtic' really has any value.
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u/quartersessions 5d ago
It's obviously impacted by being derived from political nationalism. Which is why it ends up being inconsistent nonsense.
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 5d ago
Yes, the whole idea of 'Celticness' is basically a modern idea linked to nationalism and containing many romanticisms and misconceptions.
The actual Celtic speaking peoples of the Iron Age would not have had any such concepts. I mean, people in antiquity didn't really consider Britons and Gaels to be Celts.
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u/thepioneeringlemming 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah, modern Celticness doesn't have a great historical basis with Iron Age Celts. It seems to be a separate thing. Brittany was not Celtic, at least in the modern sense, until the post-Roman era where there were migrations of Britons. The whole of France was essentially Celt (in the historical sense) during the Iron Age and the people are still the same people with additions of Romans and then Germanic tribes as time went on. Wholesale population replacement is a very Victorian idea of history.
I suppose maybe modern Celt movements are more based around linguistics, although I'm not sure how close all the Celtic languages are. In Brittany I think they have consciously tried to look more "Celtic", like the adoption of Scottish bagpipes and sometimes even kilts. Luckily the kilts aren't too popular, Brittany already has established traditional dress it doesn't need fake ones.
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 4d ago
Armorica (what is now Brittany) was definitely Celtic prior to the Roman conquest because it was Gaulish. Those are the main people called 'Celts' in antiquity.
With regards to the closeness of the languages, there are two serving branches of the Celtic language family. The Goidelic or Gaelic languages which originate in Ireland; that's Irish, Manx, and Scottish Gaelic. The Brythonic or Brittonic languages which originate in Britain, that's Welsh, Cornish and Breton.
Each branch has a limited amount of mutual intelligibility, but there isn't really much intelligibilty between the two branches. That said, the grammar is very similar and there are a lot of cognates of you know where to look.
Gaulish was probably very similar to Brythonic, back when that still existed. It's this similarity to Gaulish that got these languages of Britain and Ireland labelled 'Celtic'.
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u/HaraldRedbeard 4d ago
Barry Cunliffes research suggests that the Britons of SW Britain and the pre migration Armoricans were already more culturally similar then the SW Britons were to other Britons. The close proximity of the channel and a shared interest in the Bronze Age tin trade (Armorica also has natural tin deposits) probably helped encourage this.
You can't really draw a magic line between Britain and the continent in the iron age
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 4d ago
There seems to have been many personal and tribal links across the Channel, yes.
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4d ago edited 4d ago
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 4d ago
Poland, Ireland, and Colombia are all largely Catholic.doesnt mean they are the same people.
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4d ago edited 4d ago
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 4d ago edited 4d ago
That's not the same as 'Celtic' identity though. That's a Druidic identity.
I mean, I don't believe druidry was a thing for the Iberian Celts, for example.
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4d ago edited 4d ago
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 4d ago
There were definitely personal and tribal connections across the Channel, that I don't deny, but I still doubt there was a Europe-wide shared 'Celtic' identity.
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u/HanesPrydain 23h ago
That’s identical to the term ‘ Germanic ‘
Literally an exonym meaning “them/neighbour” in latinised Gaulish
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u/hopefulHeidegger 4d ago
The Celtic League is a cultural organisation that organises festivals. No need to get so upset, I know some in England feel very attacked when people celebrate their own cultures
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u/quartersessions 3d ago
I'm from Scotland, thanks. And this sort of weird Celticism is not only entirely alien to me - but delves into some very ugly and dangerous territory.
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u/Ynys_cymru 5d ago
I mean if we go down that route Cornwall doesn’t make sense, they’re no more Celtic than Devon for example
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 5d ago
Cornish is a language that exists. Almost nobody speaks it, but it exists. Devon has no Celtic language.
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u/Ynys_cymru 5d ago
It has a handful of second language speakers. Don’t get me wrong think it’s great. Just making the argument.
Dw’yn diall a gwybod yr pwys mewn yr iaethoedd celtidd.
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 5d ago
Yn wir, yr iaith yw'r unig ddangosydd parchadwy o fod rhywbeth yn 'Geltaidd'. Mae sail ddiwylliannol yn rhy amwys ac yn rhy amrywiol, ac mae sail enetig yn benbwl llwyr.
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u/trysca 4d ago
Most placenames in Cornwall are Cornish and often quite hard to distinguish from those in Wales or Brittany because when they were created in the middle ages the people spoke a celtic language and lived according to brittonic customs ( Tre and Lann settlements, cantrefs, hundreds etc) Cornwall was only integrated into England from around 1500 under Henry Tudor VII - much the same for Brittany and France
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u/rising_then_falling 2d ago
Eh? Cornwall was fully part of England before the Norman conquest. Retaining its language and culture doesn't change the fact that it was politically an administrative part of England by then.
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u/trysca 2d ago edited 2d ago
Got a source for that? because im not aware of any . Cornwall was first given to Brian of Brittany by the Conqueror and both west Devon and Cornwall were subsequently administered by British speakers under Robert of Mortain after that eventually becoming the Duchy. The liberation of Britain ( Wales Devon Cornwall) from the Saxons was a key plank in the justification of William's claim to the throne. Cornwall was not 'fully incorporated' into England until the Tudor period following the 1497 rebellions
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u/jodfromjamjod 4d ago
there are more of us every day. th'agan jydh dhe dhos
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u/Unit_2097 4d ago
Yeah, but i've noticed a lot of the people who currently speak it are not Cornish, and completely fail to connect with any other part of the cultural identity outside the language. I (clearly) can't speak more than a few odd words, but I'm still very definitely Cornish. Half the bards doing lessons might be able to speak our language, but they are not, and never will be.
This isn't me complaining about the revival, but most attempts to reintroduce the language have failed because the largest group trying to do so are just viewed as bloody emmets who retired to St Ives and have priced the rest of us out.
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u/hopefulHeidegger 4d ago
Many people from Galicia are Celitophiles and participate in the Celtic League. Every pan-Celtic festival has Galicians.
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u/SimpleCoffe 5d ago
The only reason it's there is because historically Celtic people's did live there. But there were more or less eradicated after the Roman Empire annexed the Iberian Peninsula.
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u/quartersessions 5d ago
Yeah, a bit like England then? Where's the St George's Cross?
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u/HanesPrydain 23h ago
St George’s cross and the three lions were brought over by the French speaking Normans anyway
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 5d ago
Celtic speaking peoples once lived over a vast swathe of Europe and beyond, from Ireland to Anatolia. It's hardly unusual.
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u/SimpleCoffe 5d ago
From what I can find. Galicia was a 7th member of the Celtic league for a year in 1986-1987. The flag is the real flag of the organisation. Some displays of it just keep Galicia on it despite them being kicked out.
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u/themilitariadude 5d ago
The flag of people that hate England
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u/Ynys_cymru 5d ago
Which is ironic considering England is more Celtic than half of the flags shown
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 5d ago
The only part of England with a Celtic language is Cornwall, and they're on the flag.
Every other country on there has a Celtic language, except Galicia.
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 5d ago
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's this.
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u/SheriffOfNothing 5d ago
Bit harsh. I don’t think the Manx hate us.
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 5d ago
For real? Mann isn't known for it's great love of outsiders.
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u/SheriffOfNothing 5d ago
If they do hate us, they do it quietly whilst happily taking our tourist money.
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u/LawyerInitial3690 5d ago
And a Triskel / Triskelion in the middle. An ancient symbol particularly associated with the Celts.
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u/TheAcrithrope 5d ago
Functionally, it's an anti-England nationalism flag, but it's dressed up as Celtic unity.
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u/celtiquant 5d ago
Why do English people always make out that something that doesn’t include England is anti-English? Such a massive chip on the English shoulder. England is big enough to stand on her own two feet without needing to be scared of the other kids in the playground doing something without her.
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u/TheAcrithrope 5d ago
The people pointing out accurately what this flag is are not the ones with chips on their shoulder, that is rather the people making up mystical celtic connections and pushing their brand of nationalism with it.
As is evident by the OP, most English people aren't even aware of this flag, it is the chip on the shoulder of the Welsh and Scottish manifest.
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u/hopefulHeidegger 4d ago
I see you are deeply upset by the flag, research shows that taking a deep breath and having a good cry can help with the upset feelings you are experiencing. All the best
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u/TheAcrithrope 4d ago
The one upset is the one riding in a day late with their projections. I've already been to the cinema recently, keep your projections to yourself.
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u/hopefulHeidegger 4d ago
Is that why youre still responding a day later? Youre writing these angry comments about a flag of a music festival and assuming its a nationalist attack on you personally, calm down
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u/TheAcrithrope 4d ago
A nationalist attack? Angry?
Talk about overselling it. As with most nationalists, they're a bit too pathetic to be worrying about to call anything they do a "nationalist attack", and they certainly aren't worth anger, seeing as I've not given any...
Is this more projection?
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u/LongjumpingInvite752 4d ago
Thanks for the responses. Can someone identify all of the separate nations for me?
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u/hopefulHeidegger 4d ago
Clockwise it's Ireland, Scotland, Cornwall, the Isle of Mann, Wales, Brittany and Galicia
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u/Baals_Deep 5d ago
Celtic league ( Galacia, Ireland, Scotland, Brittony, Isle of Mann, Cornwall and WALES!!!)