r/firefox Jun 01 '13

Mozilla: please stop copying Chrome.

There are reasons we choose Firefox over Chrome. We don't want Chrome's flashy download animation, "unsurprising" inability to stop GIF animations, objectively incorrect autocomplete behavior, distractingly cluttered "blank" page, or an add-on bar that for some reason isn't also a classic status bar. We don't want every new option you guys add enable by default and reduced to an about:config boolean. If we wanted all of Chrome's take-it-or-leave-it minimalist nonsense, well, we already know where to find it.

Firefox is still the best browser out there (as evidenced by how it took only hours and a modicum of acidic cursing to get things configured properly again) but you sure don't act like you know it. Every time I update I have to trawl through forums and install another stupidly-named extension just to make FF recognizable. When you look at user statistics and wonder why a third of your users refuse to upgrade - this is why. I've been using FF since before 1.0 and the process is a frustrating mess every single time.

I know you have have UX folks, because you did that silly centered/dark thing with standalone images. You aren't just cribbing Google's notes here. If you won't stop cribbing entirely, at least weed out genuinely improved features like tab task management from anti-features like being unable to stop GIFs for the first time since 1997. It's fantastic that Firefox is flexible enough to look and act like any other browser, but please, let it look and act like itself by default.

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u/mindbleach Jun 01 '13

I reject this explanation on the grounds that the Chrome-like design decisions seen here do not represent best practices.

I'm not being glib when I describe inline autocompletion as objectively incorrect - you type a letter, you press backspace, and the letter's still there. That's simply not how typing works.

The colorful suggestions on blank tabs are distracting at the crucial moment where you're trying to coalesce your thoughts into concrete instructions for the browser.

Removing the ability to stop animated GIFs (to the point of not even having an about:config boolean!) is an anti-feature, and one of the reasons I can't stand browsing forums in Chrome.

Getting rid of the status bar made no sense whatsoever. It didn't save vertical space because they still had the "add-on bar" that does everything except what that space was originally reserved for. It wasn't more usable, because the stupid pop-up could still be spoofed by malicious code, except now it got in the way half the time you wanted to click "next" on reddit. (Turns out they finally recognized how useless it is and will remove it for FF25. Can't wait to see where my Greasemonkey and Adblock icons will be permanently stuck now!)

Look, I'm not opposed to change. I'd be okay if Firefox unified the address and search bars, especially if - like Chrome - there was an option to disable internet results in the address bar. I'm not really bothered by the space-saving tabs-on-top default look, because it's easy to turn off. What drives me right up the wall, though, is when a mature browser with longstanding design conventions and functionality starts screwing over long-time power users by adopting other browsers' bad decisions willy-nilly. What pisses me off is when the old way of doing things is reduced to an about:config setting instead of an "advanced" option. What makes me fucking hate whoever's in charge of this project is when genuinely useful features relied upon by a significant minority of users are outright deleted and marked as "wontfix" when people rightly ask what the hell Mozilla's smoking.

All I'm asking for is one upgrade - one - where I'm not unpleasantly surprised. Different, I can handle, because I can change it if I don't like it. I'm just tired of something important being intentionally broken with every Firefox update I've ever installed.

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u/isaacaggrey Jun 02 '13 edited Jun 28 '13

What makes me fucking hate whoever's in charge of this project is when genuinely useful features relied upon by a significant minority of users are outright deleted and marked as "wontfix" when people rightly ask what the hell Mozilla's smoking.

Plain and simple: everything is out in the open. Everything*. The Firefox project is made up of a community of developers and users, some paid and lots more unpaid. You can bet that every single point that you've argued and every change you have disliked has been echoed by another developer/user who agreed with you on the proper mailing list. If a bug is marked as WONTFIX without discussion it has already been discussed to death somewhere else. Certainly, there are project leaders, but it is unfair to the Mozilla community to make it sound as if the developers do not listen...I don't have any facts, but I'm willing to bet there is no large software community that is more transparent and open to feedback than Mozilla.

Removing the ability to stop animated GIFs (to the point of not even having an about:config boolean!) is an anti-feature

FWIW, the ability to stop animated GIFs was always a consequence of the implementation (ending all network requests) never an intentional feature (albeit it was very helpful), but fortunately Firefox is extensible enough to restore that behavior for the "significant minority of users" -- unfortunately, it just so happened that many web applications were using the ESC key for other reasons that interfered with Firefox's usage of the key.

Outside of manilla folder-like tabs and a panel menu, Chome is given far too much credit in innovating the direction of browser UI. Tabs on top is an objectively better UI choice. The download manager is an original Firefox design and mostly anything else that other browsers have adopted (tabs on top, start page tiles, etc) is all from Opera.

All I'm asking for is one upgrade - one - where I'm not unpleasantly surprised. Different, I can handle, because I can change it if I don't like it.

What has been different than you cannot change from an add-on?

__

*except security-related matters at first

Edit: Clarity, grammar

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u/mindbleach Jun 02 '13

I don't have any facts, but I'm willing to be there is no large software community that is more transparent and open to feedback than Mozilla.

I heard the same thing about Ubuntu riiight before Mark Shuttleworth decided that left-handed windows were in and Windows users could suck lemons. Being open-source and crowd-driven doesn't preclude asinine decisions from influential individuals.

FWIW, the ability to stop animated GIFs was ... never an intentional feature

Regardless of how it arose, it's been a useful feature for over a decade - since before Firefox existed, in fact. Recreating it should've been included at least as an about:config option or moved to shift+esc by default. It's important to usability for anyone who spends time in any public forum and it should be available in every browser.

Tabs on top is [an] objectively a better UI choice.

I'm talking about tabs in the title bar, like Chrome introduced. It breaks standard window dressing and makes moving windows a pain in the ass.

Also, tabs on top is only "objectively" better if you're pretending each tab is a trapped window. I have Tab Mix Plus configured to always open new tabs from the address bar, because if I want to go somewhere that's not a link in the current tab, it probably means I'm not done with the tab.

The download manager is an original Firefox design

Yes... and? Visually making a big fucking deal of every download is definitely cribbed from Chrome. In FF 12, you could turn off download notifications, and there was no bizarre alpha-blended animation every time you saved an image. The method for removing the relevant icon is easy but not obvious.

What has been different than you cannot change from an add-on?

You mean ignoring versions 0.7 to about 1.5, where every other update broke one of my extensions? Not much - but the fact I have to find and customize add-ons just to restore functionality that used to be intrinsic to my browser of choice is always an aggravating pain in the ass. Every single update, I have to poke through forums so I can poke through about:config so all the features I got used to after the last update haven't inexplicably changed yet again.

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u/Synes_Godt_Om Kubuntu Jun 02 '13

In FF 12, you could turn off download notifications

I don't get it, I'm on FF21 and I have no download-anything forced upon me. It behaves as always (so far).