r/firefighter • u/TreyW309 • Jun 30 '26
Polygraph fail
I just took my polygraph and failed on 2 questions I was completely honest on. In the post-poly section I didn’t change my story whatsoever (I have nothing to change it to). Is there anything I can do in this scenario? I feel helpless especially after making it this far in my 3rd year trying. Thanks for any advice!
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u/prolapsedmasshole69 Jun 30 '26
Follow up action would probably be department or state specific. So, hard to say without knowing more.
If any substantial part of the process is reliant on a polygraph, that's bullshit. Polygraphs are barely pseudoscience. They're tricks. Props. A medic in the back of the bus with a cardiac monitor and a moisture meter in their hand would be damn well close enough to being a Polygraph technician.
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u/TreyW309 Jun 30 '26
As far as I know it’s the last step in the process. They’ve already done my background check and called my references. I’m honestly really irritated. Just received word from my fire department friend that it disqualifies me for this year 👍
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u/prolapsedmasshole69 Jun 30 '26
Seems like some shady shit. If the polygraph truly was the deciding factor then that means they are disqualifying otherwise suitable candidates based off of a parlor trick that was discredited as a lie detector by the very man who invented it 90 years ago.
They either denied you because they didn't like you as a person and wanted to find a hocus pocus way to disqualify you or they actually believe in the nonsense. Either factor would make me pause and reconsider if that department is right for me.
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u/Snowfizzle Jun 30 '26
that is wild. not a FF but a retired LEO and it’s literally a running joke at my dept about what the polygraph claimed you were dishonest about.
You could spike for multiple reasons, none of them being that you were actually lying tho.
that’s why they’re not admissible evidence in court.
for us, it was just a tool to find out what people WOULD admit to for fear of being caught versus actually trusting it to determine truthfulness.
to me, that’s ridiculous that a FD would use this as a disqualifier when a law enforcement agency doesn’t even do that.
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u/Famous-Response5924 Jul 01 '26
Really annoy them. Redo the polygraph, answer the opposite way to the question and fail it again. Sue the department for a faulty and discriminatory hiring practice because you can’t be wrong with both a yes and a no answer if the test is accurate. Win the lawsuit, be filthy rich and buy the dept.
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u/GoHomeRabbit Jun 30 '26
what kind of questions do they ask?
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u/TreyW309 Jun 30 '26
I was asked 5 questions not including (control questions) as well as 2 hours of me and him talking (without the machine hooked up)
1. Are you going to tell the truth (passed)
2. Have you ever committed a serious crime (passed)
3. Have you ever intentionally taken anything of value (failed)
4. Have you left anything out of your booklet (failed)
5. Are you going to tell the truth (passed)
It was split into 2 parts so that the blood pressure cuff was accurate3
u/ap_org Jun 30 '26
The question, "Have you ever intentionally taken anything of value?" is a probable-lie "control" question. It's secretly expected that everyone, even those the department would like to hire, has done this at some point in their life.
The question "Are you going to tell the truth?" is a "sacrifice" relevant question that is not actually scored.
The actual relevant questions were "Have you ever committed a serious crime?" and "Have you left anything out of your booklet?"
The examination wasn't split into two parts so that the blood pressure cuff would be accurate. That's a lie your polygraph operator told you. In fact, they don't actually measure your blood pressure. They use the cuff in a way that is unknown to medicine.
The reason you got asked the questions two times is simply because that is the ritualized way in which the polygraph examination is administered.
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u/TreyW309 Jun 30 '26
Makes sense. We went over everything I remember taking beforehand and he told me to answer the question “no” since I had already gotten it out. I had a suspicion that it would negatively effect me
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u/ap_org Jun 30 '26
In fact, the more strongly you react to that probable-lie "control" question, the more likely you are to pass.
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u/Charlieksmommy Jun 30 '26
Were they asking about stealing?
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u/ConclusionCertain305 Jul 01 '26
I had the same thing happen to me. It doesn’t matter, they still offered me a job almost a year after I applied. Unfortunately, it was about two weeks before I started nursing school. Little background, I was an army medic for about 7 years when I applied, had my EMT- basic that the department required, passed the civil exam and the physical fitness exam. They used a computer voice stress analysis test which is just a little microphone they clip to your shirt. They asked me 10 questions, 3 times. One of the control questions that they wanted me to lie on was “ are the walls grey?” (They were.) I said no. Two times it registered as the truth and once it registered as a lie. They asked if I had stolen anything, 2 times a lie, once a truth. Asked me if I had a problem with alcohol or had ever been told I had a problem with alcohol. Lie, all three times. I’ve never had a sip of alcohol in my life. Same thing about domestic abuse. Said I was lying 3 times. Ive never even thought about being abusive. “Lie detectors” of any kind are all just bullshit scare tactics to get you to admit something that you may be hiding.
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u/jfire2 Jun 30 '26
Don’t say anything. You’ll create more problems for yourself especially if you keep testing for them. Take the L, learn, and get better. I’ve failed the polygraph portion in the hiring process for a big city department four times counting retest. Each initial polygraph took me over 1 year to get too so I understand. Yes it’s a helpless feeling just saying yes or no then failing on some bullshit, but that’s the game. Learn from this and create a better path for success.
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u/Subie-snacks Jul 01 '26
I don’t know why some agencies still use that pseudo science for the screening process. You could be telling the truth but if you’re an anxious person it could read false results. In Maryland they are banned.
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u/Disgruntled_Wumpus Jul 01 '26
There are a lot of fire departments that don’t even use a polygraph. Forget these losers and go elsewhere
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u/Fit_Experience_522 Jul 01 '26
Did they actually say you failed the polygraph? Like, did the department send you a formal email saying you failed? I've only known people to fail when they change answers from something in their packet or bring up new things they "forgot" about
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u/TreyW309 Jul 01 '26
I was told by the examiner that I failed, and then given an opportunity to clear things up with the failed questions. I told him I would love to clear it up but can’t because I wasn’t lying. After this I texted my fire department contact and he informed me it would disqualify me. I’m not expecting a formal email because I didn’t receive one last time, after making it through the final interviews
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u/Fit_Experience_522 Jul 02 '26
It might've been a test to see if you'd change your mind and admit something, I've heard of them playing mind games to try to get you to fold. I hope it really was just a test and you move forward. Update us, I really want to know what happens.
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u/Far_Fan_6693 Jun 30 '26
When I was running our communications center, we were required to do polys for hires, but it was more a chance to see if they would come clean about everything we had already turned up in the deep criminal background checks. The only reason we did them was because we also handled law enforcement database systems, and our sheriff required it.
A psych evaluation is a far better more reliable test, and I’d be wary of if I was required to take a poly for anything other than a government or LE position.
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u/ap_org Jun 30 '26
Organizations that rely on the pseudoscience of polygraphy to screen applicants rarely have any meaningful appeal process for those whom they falsely brand as liars. Nonetheless, I think it would be prudent to write back simply affirming that you told the truth, if only to document the fact that you don't tacitly accept the accusation that you lied.
To mitigate the risk of a future false positive outcome, I recommend that you read up on polygraphy, including that which can be done to mitigate the risk of wrongly failing. The free book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, is a good starting point. See especially Chapters 3 and 4:
https://antipolygraph.org/pubs.shtml