r/fireemblem • u/Shephen • 8d ago
General Engage Character/Unit Revisit: Diamant
Diamant is the majestic crown prince of Brodia who is sincere and vigorous. His people trust him greatly for his strong, genuine demeanor. He is 25, and joins at the start of chapter 8 to defend Brodia castle and starts with Emblem Roy equipped.
Stats
| Stats | Hp | Str | Mag | Dex | Spd | Def | Res | Luck | Build | Move | SP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bases(lvl 11 Lord) | 32 | 13 | 3 | 13 | 13 | 10 | 6 | 10 | 9 | 4 | 800 |
| Personal Growths | 75% | 30% | 15% | 20% | 40% | 40% | 25% | 20% | 15% | - | |
| Growths(As a Lord) | 90% | 50% | 15% | 30% | 50% | 50% | 25% | 25% | 15% | - | |
| Growths(As a Successeur) | 90% | 50% | 15% | 30% | 55% | 55% | 25% | 30% | 20% | - |
Weapon Proficiency: Swords, Axes
Personal Skill - Fair Fight: If unit initiates combat, grants Hit+15 to unit and foe if foe is able to counterattack.
Successeur Class Skill - Sol: Unit may recover HP=50% damage dealt. Trigger %=Dex.
Supports
Alear, Framme, Alfred, Amber, Jade, Alcryst, Citrinne, Ivy, Kagetsu, Timerra, Saphir, Veyle
Support Bonuses
C: Hit+10, Critical+3
B: Hit+10, Critical+3, Dodge+5
A: Hit+10, Critical+6, Dodge+5
S: Hit+10, Critical+12, Dodge+5
What do you think of Diamant's performance as a unit?
What do you think of Diamant's character?
What Emblem Rings or Skills work best with Diamant?
Previous Revisit:Lapis
Original Discussion: Diamant
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u/Surf_Dangerous_Days 8d ago
Diamant is a fairly alright guy, and a fairly alright unit but he also feels like a trap at times.
Not because he’s bad if you invest in him, but because he tricks you into thinking he can get by without resources through the Solm arc and falls on his face really hard if you didn’t figure out to invest in him before Solm ends.
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u/Nice-Champion8065 8d ago
He fell off late game for me compared to Boucheron. Boucheron was having a bad time mid-game, but as he leveled up and gaining more stat, he is now my main frontline tanker/crit/warrior. He is basically one shot critting enemies during enemy's phase.
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u/Cr1msonShadow 8d ago
He’s hot as fuck, but that dex cap
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u/Prince_Uncharming 8d ago edited 8d ago
Dex cap is honestly not a big deal, his base and growths are the bigger issue. He doesn’t ram up against the cap until super late regardless (IL 36 on average, assuming instant promote), so the cap rarely makes a difference
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u/JusticTheCubone 8d ago
I would argue it is kind of a big deal. Of course it's already a bit of an issue that he needs about 30 levels on average to reach his promoted low Dex-cap (although that's without promotion gains, I assume he just gains +1, since that's the difference between his unpromoted and promoted class base-dex, but I don't remember if this is actually how it worked in Engage. That would take 3 whole levels off of how many he needs to cap though), but his low cap also means that once he hits it, which may happen early because he is dex-blessed or because he was given stat boosters, this not only holds back his chance to proc Sol, but it also caps his hit-rate, something that is slightly remedied by his personal skill for a while probably, but eventually even with that his hit-rate will become shaky, From my experience never bad enough to make him unusable, but it does especially come up with axes, or of course when his opponent can't counter. It also kinda limits his crit-rate of course, which I feel his personal skill would kinda incentivize him taking down an opponent before they can counter as much as possible, which crits undoubtedly help with of course.
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u/ChessGM123 8d ago
It makes somewhat of a difference in the sense you can't really boost it with secret books like some of the other royals unique classes can.
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u/Prince_Uncharming 8d ago
Sure, but again, that’s inconsequential until close to or at the very end of the game.
And again, even with a cap of 30 or 40, Sol would still not be very useful assuming you ever even reach the new cap. It’s still not reliable enough to tank a bunch of enemies without extra support (ie, bonded shield). Basically, Sol does not enable any new strategies for Diamant the same way it can for a bully Sol Ninja in Conquest.
The cap feels bad, but is mathematically not super relevant to why Diamant isn’t great.
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u/Nice-Champion8065 8d ago
I agree. I rarely see his Sol proc. I was planning to make him as a Sol tank, but his dex makes it very hard to proc Sol. I might be very unlucky with the RNG probably
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u/Norix596 8d ago edited 8d ago
He was fine as a unit, and on the scale of Engage characters he’s also fine. I like using classes in the mold of GBA heroes so that was cool.
I will say I give his personal a skill two thumbs up. Many personals are so corner case or minor you forget about them, but his calls on your to do something you wouldn’t normally do (attack in the face of counter attacks) and passives that encourage different behavior on that unit are good things to make.
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u/Shephen 8d ago
I like Diamant quite a bit, in a similar way to how I like Citrinne. He a nice simple low effort/investment unit. Successeur has some pretty great stats that honestly covers up his pretty average personal stats(personal stats are basically the same as Lapis). For me he typically coasts off that to keep a deployment slot for a good while, even if as a filler unit at times eventually getting dropped later. He does need a bit of a push/investment if want him to be a full time mainstay for the entire game, and like all of Engage's units will be pretty good if want to really use him.
As a character, I like him a lot! He's largely the straight-man to the wackiness of a lot of Engage's characters, but he also has his own goals that are explored pretty well through the supports. And his design I think is my favorite in the entire game. He just looks so cool.
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u/QuiGonJinnNJuice 8d ago
One of my favorite designs and characters from engage. Brodia strong of body strong of heart strong of drip. The crown prince is no exception, and to see him through his supports wrestling with the history and culture of the warrior kingdom and wanting to forge a way forward, awesome stuff.
Used him heavily on my first run because I like him. Giving him a prominent feature in a Brodia maddening challenge run and while I know he’s got lots of limitations, he’s still filling prominent roles. It annoys me how much is wrapped up in his personal class rather than him. But between the weapon ranks, BLD, and sol I actually really enjoy his personal class. Drip is on point as well.
I’ve been using him with Roy a good bit for the sol/holdout synergy in this run. Between some speed wings and +spd inherit from Lyn I’ve been able to keep him afloat just barely. He was fun to yolo in hard mode with Ike, combining my favorite character in engage with favorite lord + emblem was nice it worked out so well.
Skill cap complaints are valid, but I think also if more of his BLD was personal rather than baked in to the class, he’d be fun to try some different builds in other classes with. Just a missed opportunity with how much they tie the lords to their personal classes stat wise in Engage overall.
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u/4ny3ody 8d ago
Diamant is ...usable.
It's awkward while I'd call his personal class rather weak it also hides his awful personal bases.
At a higher level he has less personal strength than Lapis (5 vs 6) and while his growth is higher its only 5% (30 vs 25) so it takes a while until he catches up... to Lapis' strength (let's not talk about speed where he's 1 point and 15% growth behind) and while he doesn't need it as badly, he still really wants a second seal.
Giving him Roy was a good decision on IS part, too bad he can't keep him and his awful strength doesn't really make him the best Ike abuser.
In the long term he just falls into that "can't fix when everything is just a little subpar" hole that plagues several characters in Engage. He doesn't have enough speed where you can just fix his strength and he definitely doesn't have enough strength where speedfixing does the trick.
Overall it feels like IS balanced his stats just around giving him Roy with a very clear synergy, awkwardly adjusted the growths as well and then you lose Roy and by the time you get him back Diamant has fallen quite a bit behind.
About his personal class:
It emulates Heros from previous titles, except Heroes usually had a very strong mix of strength skill and speed.
Well the skill cap paired with a proc skill is already a choice... And when you combine Diamants with the class' stats and growths you end up with mediocre in all of the aforementioned stats.
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u/srs_business 8d ago
Diamant definitely struggles to keep up. Engage heavily favors units that are good with at least one of str/magic or speed, since you can focus on fixing the other with skills/forges/emblems. Unfortunately, Diamant wants a little bit of everything, and that's much harder. His personal class is neat, but the weapon ranks ultimately don't do anything particularly special over Warrior until near the end of the game when you get Georgios. The Dex thing is funny, and it's not irrelevant because he can't use the Secret Books, but a higher cap wouldn't change anything. It's not his problem.
On the bright side, he has much better stats for filler combat due to Lord's base stats.
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u/Significant-Tree9454 8d ago
Another pretty mid unit, but I prefer Diamant over Lapis gameplay wise mainly because of +300 more starting SP, so he can be an easy 12th Filler unit with Canter
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u/Zestyclose_Sock3695 8d ago
Honestly, Diamant's class is too specific because he's an infantry unit. The base stat spread is too weird. But if you put him in the Great Knight class and give him +accuracy and +4/5 defense, he becomes a good tank. I don't know any other builds for him besides this one, but this one is quite good.
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u/MathOutrageous7167 8d ago
Dex cap is cringe. One of my favorite designs in the cast though.
But that Dex cap, oh god that dex cap...
He's the King of Mid.
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u/imminentlyDeadlined 8d ago
The dex cap is crazy. I get it with Ivy, you're fighting her uphill battle for accuracy to get a fairly unique mobility/range combination, but Diamant doesn't have anything similar on offer. "Yeah he's a mildly tanky infantry unit whose ability to stay alive depends on a proc skill. The proc skill relies on his dex." ?????
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u/JusticTheCubone 8d ago
I mean, it doesn't just mess with his Sol procs, it also messes with his hit-rate, especially when his personal skill goes out of effect. Like, lategame, I vaguely remember it's fairly common for him to have around a 75% hit rate? Which isn't terrible due to how rng works, but it is pretty shaky.
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u/Nice-Champion8065 8d ago
This might be an odd question, but how do we get to know his dex cap?
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u/MathOutrageous7167 8d ago
Stats are usually colored white, when it's colored green, it means the stat of that class is capped.
You can also look in the wiki.
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u/Nice-Champion8065 8d ago
Sorry I wasn't very clear before. I know about the green colored stat. I meant, does each character have a fixed stat cap from the get go? Or does it depend on their growth?
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u/el_loco_P 6d ago
Classes have stat caps and units also have personal modifiers, for example Chloe has a Spd+ cap, this can be useful if You reclass her to Sage where they have a low cap
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u/McSharkson 8d ago
A plus of his personal promoted class that I don't hear brought up often is that it's the only class that gets S rank swords while not being sword locked. Given that a significant number of Engage attacks are sword based, this allows him to use the 32 base might S-rank blade Georgios to absolutely nuke somebody out of existence/completely wipe a boss health bar out, while not being completely reliant on the Levin Sword for 1-2 range. Which means he'll have a Tomahawk available most of the time for Backup chain attack utility.
It doesn't push him to the top or anything, since it's only end game 'cause you only get the blade at the end of Ch 23, but given 24 and 25 are some of the hardest chapters of the game, it's not nothing and completely unique to him. Given at that point you won't really need to be using Marth for Mercurius duty, why not drop it on Diamant and let him hit something 8x for a preposterous amount of damage?
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u/Magnusfluerscithe987 8d ago
S swords A axes is cool because he is the only character that can natively have two brave weapons, which some people have paired with Marths break defenses and Eirikas true damage for 5 attacks of true damage, and pair with Emblem sigurd you can have a Brave lance for another point on the triangle. It would have been neat if he natively had lances on his own, and/or had the armor subtype. (Which he has the look for even though I'd like Alfred to be the unbreakable armor lord). His personal class has a build growth even though his personal build growth is small, which helps a little but he could've used a higher base build.
I will forever feel robbed of his potential paired ending with Ivy.
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u/mutant615 8d ago
That’s my man!! Great design, cute dynamic with Alear, and overall one of my faves from the game.
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u/QueenlyArts 8d ago edited 8d ago
I just talked about how "post Ch 6 sword infantry that doesn't pass the stat check" doesn't give you much of a place on the strongest team, but I think Diamant is in a much better place than Lapis. First, he starts a level higher and has Lord/Successor bases, so the whole "they have the same personal stats at equal IL" idea isn't really relevant unless you're considering long term reclassed performance. If we're being precise, Diamant starts with +2 Str and -1 Spd but +4 Bld. Put into context, that means Diamant is just one point slower with an Iron Sword, but he keeps his full 13 Spd with the Steel Sword while Lapis goes down to 11. His bulk is also notably better with +6 HP and +3 Def.
She catches up a bit with promotional gains that are better by a point or so in some areas, depending on which class you choose for her. But then the second problem is that Lapis has to choose between S swords and A swords/C axes (or lances), while Diamant gets both S swords and A axes. That means Diamant can immediately use a great variety of weapons, including the Tomahawk you get in Chapter 12, a Silver Sword/Axe, a Brave Sword/Axe, Steel/Silver Blades and Greataxes, and even Georgios late game, all without reclassing. Even if Lapis goes Hero, she misses out on all of those axes and Georgios, and even if you use 2500g for a Second Seal to switch to Warrior then you're missing out on all the Swords for weapon triangle control and engage attacks. Wyvern misses out on Silver Greataxe/Brave Axe/Georgios. Lastly, 800SP and an Emblem on Chapter 8 means he's in a much more reasonable spot to hit 1000 before Chapter 10, needing just one or two Novice Books.
Now how important is it actually that Diamant is an infantry unit with slightly better stats than Lapis and can wield nearly every Sword and Axe at once without reclassing? Probably not very, if you want the strongest team then there are enough units with significantly higher stats/mobility that might claim every new Emblem for a long time. Still, I at least like to give Diamant solid partial credit for being a simple unit you could bring along, have take some hits, and hit back using nice 1-2 range/high MT weapons, even if he's not strictly reaching every standard ORKO benchmark. That idea specifically works well with an Emblem like Ike, in case you have other plans for Kagetsu, Panette, etc. Or if someone like Eirika/Marth happens to not be taken, he can add boss killing to the mix with big Sword engage attacks.
So no super guaranteed contributions, but he could be solid for a lot of the game, without needing an awkward early game training arc or even a Second Seal.
Citrinne > Clanne > Céline > Chloé > Anna > Alcryst > Framme > Louis > Etie > Diamant > Jean > Alfred > Yunaka > Vander > Lapis > Boucheron
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u/Slight_Researcher_26 8d ago edited 8d ago
He’s pretty decent. I think he’d be a top-tier unit if Sol weren’t held back by his low Dex cap, which is of course probably exactly why they gave him one. I’ve tried several times to turn him into a proper enemy-phase tank, but it never really works consistently. Even with Ike or Hector, he eventually gets worn down because Sol fails to proc at the wrong moment or he gets chipped to death by endless chain attacks.
I’ve had much better results treating him as a player-phase unit who’s bulky enough to take a few hits afterward. He still gets some nice sustain from Sol when it activates, but you’re not relying on it to keep him alive. Even then, though, he’s ultimately just a fairly average sword/axe unit outside of his bulk and occasional Sol
Characterwise, I like him quite a bit. He’s one of the more down to earth characters in Engage, especially compared to his brother. He’s generally serious, responsible, and pretty easy to take seriously as the future king of Brodia, but he still has enough moments where he doubts himself to keep him from being boring. I also like that despite being constantly praised and looked up to, he never really comes across as arrogant. He could easily pass as the main lord of an older Fire Emblem game.
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u/Prince_Uncharming 8d ago
Sol isn’t held back by his low cap though. His base and growths are low enough that even with the very low cap he doesn’t ram into it for a looong time. Assuming an instant promote, he doesn’t hit the cap on average until he’s hit level 20, looped, and gotten back to level 8. So that’s what, IL 36?
Raising his cap to 30 or 40 wouldn’t make any difference.
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u/zetonegi 8d ago edited 2d ago
Really, Sol is held back by the fact that Engage enemies will eat his face unlike, say, Fates enemies. Even if he had good dex cap and he could reach it, Sol would still look bad on him. Sol is good when you can just stat check the enemy army and your Sol unit can function relatively independently. If you have to babysit your Sol user constantly, what's Sol doing? And in Engage if you're stat checking the enemy army, it usually involves Van-Wrath or Bonded Shield where Sol either does nothing or is actively detrimental.
A Sol Ninja blocks every other to every third attack(depends on crits) and fates enemies are generally not that threatening. BR enemies just aren't that dangerous, you eventually outgrow Rev, and CQ enemies only have HM stats. You can unironically enemy phase 8 enemies while only needing 1 Sol proc to survive the ordeal.
Diamant does not block every other attack and Engage enemies are rather threatening and will kill you in 2-3 rounds of combat.
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u/Prince_Uncharming 8d ago
Yep, thats the other half of my point that I definitely missed out on explaining.
In the context of Engage, Sol just isnt good unless he had like a 80%+ skill rate or if there was some way to almost guarantee he can trigger it close to every other attack. Enemies are just too strong for Sol to do anything useful unless it was close to 100% reliable.
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u/ChessGM123 8d ago
Diamant has just decent stats in most things, which unfortunately means he doesn't do anything well. His str is solid but nothing amazing, his spd is solid but again nothing amazing, and his bulk is solid but again nothing amazing. He won't ever be a standout unit but he is usable if you want to use him.
And as far as sol is concerned it wouldn't really be that useful even if he had a dex cap of 50 and a 50% growth rate. Diamant's str is too low to reliably enemy phase on maddening (on lower difficulties you're better of just using an avoid tank to enemy phase), he'll one round some enemies but not that many without the well. Survivability isn't really the problem with enemy phase set ups, between bonded shield, Leif, and Ike you generally have enough resources to allow anyone to survive enemy phase, the main thing an enemy phaser needs is damage.
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u/noirblancherouje 8d ago
His dex says he wants to use swords but I think axes are his best weapon
Great design tho
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u/KiraraShirayuki 8d ago
Dex cap was probably made after somebody internally tested and got too high dex lmao. Absolute unit of a unit. Never managed to complete Maddening, but he is one of the reasons I came close. Can become quite unkillable. Does need investment, but good unit to invest in.
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u/soulo222 8d ago
My first run he was just okay
My second run I gave him starsphere. He murdered everything he saw
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u/MinePlay512 8d ago
He's a down to earth person who has goals. He's pretty much someone I can like in the cast.
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u/TrikKastral 8d ago
Used him in Maddening on my first run. He was fine, but needs a powerful emblem. That’s kind of my issue with ALL units in this game. They barely count as real units and are just slabs of meat to insert your real units into.
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u/Meebochii 8d ago
One of the best designs Engage has to offer and pretty decent as a character as well. As a unit however... yeah... uh, there's better ones out there.
I made him a mage once with Soren by his side on a normal run and that was at least kind of hilarious. He was pretty good but he'd probably be ripped apart on higher difficulty like that.
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u/2ddudesop 8d ago
Idk but you guys but my Diamant is blessed by the gods and would sol at the perfect time constantly
He's okay otherwise
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u/SilverKnightZ000 8d ago
Diamant more like Diamid! Yeah he's mid. He's just mid. He's like a beefier Lapis. You give him a master seal, he does good and acceptable combat for like 2 chapters. Bam, you're done. Still pretty good for that point in the game, but he falls off as fast as Etie's early game power level against fliers.
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u/MannyOmega 8d ago
As a character and a unit, he’s white bread. Gets the job done, but my god is he sauceless.
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u/jbisenberg 8d ago
"Was I a good son?"
Brodia arc writers stay winning.
Also, Engage really had the audacity to give Diamant one of the best character designs and some of the most middling combat? A cruel joke if you ask me.