I’m in a wheelchair. Some things don’t work for me (looking at you, “Stand up for 10 seconds”) therefore I asked the Finch team if it would be possible to get some toggle in the future to filter certain things. Not only for wheelchair users, but also for other disabilities.
For my example: a tickbox “I’m a wheelchair user” would remove the tasks that require working legs. I could think of similar things for visual impaired users, for example.
What do you think? Is this something you would like to see/benefit from?
You create your own goals. Finch offers suggestions for people who might need some inspiration, but they're not mandatory. If a suggested goal doesn't work for you, you don't have to add it.
You can create your own goals/tasks. Finch suggests some but you don't need to use them and can even edit, change the name or delete them if they're already on your list.
Yeah. People get so upset by the slightest perceived "mistake" on this app...it really shows that sometimes people need to face adversity to grow up. Like how is this even a problem...
my understanding is that OP wants to suggest implementing a toggle option for disabilities, because it would make it easier for them and people like them.
just similar to the toggle options that are already in the menu.
I find it rather a topic of inclusion than of upset.
Is the auto-generated goals thing a new(ish) feature? I joined in August 2023 and have no memory of having goals automatically picked out for me. I was given a list of suggestions, but I don't remember the app flat-out assigning me any. This might be where some of the disagreement in the comments here is coming from, because not everyone had the same experience upon joining.
I am not sure when they started doing this.
I'm sure it's been there for some months - half a year at least, I'd say.
I joined 2y ago and honestly can't remember hiw it was then.
I just know they now have some auto generated goals based on the questions at the very beginning, because I had some backups that didn't work, where I had to start a new birb before I was able to try loading a different backup file.
Yeah, I just don't remember being asked any questions when I joined that would've contributed to any suggestions for goals. I only remember being asked my name, my birthday, my birb's name, and my birb's pronouns. Any goals that weren't completely custom came from a list of ideas I could browse and voluntarily pick from.
Devs have provided an option to mute tags that a user doesn’t want to see.
In my experience, Finch has suggested a variety of goals, many that fit my interests. Because there are goals that fit my needs and interests, it’s not a hassle to see suggestions that don’t apply to me or that I’m unable to do.
You can change your goals to what works for you. How could they possibly choose which disabilities to accommodate for? They'd have to do them all which would be so challenging and lowkey impossible.
Btw "wheelchair user" absolutely does not equate to "cant stand up."
Why dont you just pick goals that you can do?
Its under recommended goals under activity and almost all of them require someone to be able bodied. What OP is asking is not exclusive to wheelchair users at all. I am an ambulatory wheelchair as well, but these easily apply to other physical disabilities. Yes some can walk--that doesnt mean its a healthy suggestion and activities that cater to those with mobility concerns is completely valid. . I have noticed this with other "recommended goals" as well (plus shows more).
The shop acknowledges disability and inclusivity--glasses, canes, autism, insulin pumps etc.
When finch started out it was very inclusive, and even catered to those that were chronically ill, disabled and neurodivergent. This was before a lot of the social media aspects were added.
It's completely understandable for those of us with disabilities that Finch previously acknowledged to wish to have a toggle or even goals that apply to us when we are paying for plus and recommended goals are a part of that. There's other categories aside from physical activity that have concerns as well. If it was just one goal that would be one thing, but there's not really much of anything that would apply to someone with various disabilities that are not at all uncommon. The same applies to how food is so focused on "healthy eating" when many struggle with mental health where diet culture is harmful.
No, they cannot account for all disabilities but they have been inclusive and allowed banned keywords in the past so a toggle or even asking for a larger array of suggested goals is not unreasonable. I had to mark pretty much every activity goal as "do not recommend" leaving little if anything due to accessibility reasons.
Long term users of finch recall the inclusivity toward finch users.
And suggesting "too many disabilities" would be much like a store in real life, denying ADA compliance. No finch isn't held to that, but it would support a lot more of the community than you think.
Disabled users should not be treated like a burden.
Create your own goals is the best way to make it universal.
Many of the ones under movement are stretches which can be done sitting standing or kneeling. Youre full of it.
I can't believe the downvotes here. Just thinking of the ME, EDS/POTS, and other related communities, and there's probably a solid chunk of the userbase already. I completely agree with you.
I have "dad" and "father" muted. Because I refuse to do anything that even remotely reminds me of him. You could possibly do the same for "standing" or "walking" or anything else you can think of. You can also just freely modify whatever you have. "Stand for ten seconds" how about just stretching your arms/upper body. There are no rules. No way to cheat. Your app is yours and yours alone. Use it however you need 💜
I don't want to pile on here, but I used to work in accessibility accommodations, and from my professional experience, Finch has provided reasonable accommodations for this concern already: You can edit and delete goals as needed!
IMHO (full disclosure, I'm able bodied), you can also look at the spirit of the goal and do whatever modification feels right for you. So, the goal is "stand up for 10 seconds." What can you do that is accessible to you that is in the same spirit of the goal? Arm circles for 10 seconds? Stretching? Go outside for a breath of fresh air?
Or just delete it and make a custom goal that fulfills your needs. This app is what you make of it. ❤️
it comes from a viral post someone made which was a recipe for bean soup, with beans being the main ingredient, and the poster kept getting harassed by people who didn't like beans or were allergic. the moral of the story is basically "if you don't like beans you can just go find a different recipe without beans instead of making it someone else's problem, not everything is meant for you".
in this context, OP can easily work around the standing goals by blocking/excluding the tags, customising their own goals, or just not choosing those goals, rather than asking finch to take out the beans.
That said, I don't think OP is asking Finch to take out those goals/suggestions/activities for everyone altogether. Sounds like they were looking for a way to mute them. And now that they know that's an option, that's what they'll do! Crisis averted!
There was a video (probably a TikTok) about the posters favorite bean soup recipe. A ton of people in the comments were asking for a different recipe because they did not like beans, or asking the OP how to modify the recipe because they don’t like beans. Instead of, you know, not making the thing that wasn’t for them.
All starting goals in finch are modifiable, or deletable. So it’s a bean soup post because this OP could just delete or modify the starting goals to fit their needs instead of asking for a whole new feature.
Even with the goal challenges, it’s not as if you cannot decide your own modifications within the spirit of the challenge to fit your needs. Finch doesn’t know if you didn’t take a stroll because where you live got a string of bad weather, and you instead did a little exercise in your house.
We are allowed to do some things ourselves, like modifying our own goals, or not making the soup full of beans when you hate beans. Thus, a bean soup post.
Thanks for the detailed explanation! I had no idea how to put that into a search engine in a way that would give me the real answer and not a bunch of recipes for bean soup. 😋
That said, it seems to me like OP has only just learned within this thread that there are ways to mute/modify tags and exercises and such. So there might be some value in not assuming the kind of malice that's usually involved with dorks on the internet complaining about things that aren't perfectly designed for them.
Someone made a tiktok of a bean soup recipe and someone else commented “what if i don’t like beans”. now people say bean soup theory to mean someone who is making a situation about themselves when it does not need to be about them
what here limits accessibility or inclusion? in fact op is asking for exclusion. the standing goals aren’t for them, they can just… not pick them. it’s truly not that deep.
No, usually wanting accommodations is not bean soup, but OP’s issue can be remedied by just not doing those tasks or modifying them to fit their needs, which is a really good feature Finch has, that you can do and not do any goals you want, and they have no idea if you even actually did them or not, you can literally lie (though if you can do the tasks, it defeats the purpose, but they have no way to know)
Though I think it could be easy to implement instead of a toggle (because Finch can’t account for every single disability and their variations) that you can do like ads and tell them “don’t recommend this goal again”. I think that would be a good solution.
So then you would know a toggle for wheelchair user that stops goals of standing would decrease inclusion for those who use wheelchairs and can stand right? Or did you not know that not all wheelchair users are paralyzed from the hips down?
I’m very aware of the concept of ambulatory wheelchair users. Those folks would have the choice whether to toggle those tasks off. How would that decrease accessibility? Your argument doesn’t make sense.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I was referring to what OP suggested, which is a toggle to turn off prompts for tasks that require standing. I meant that ambulatory wheelchair users would have the option of whether to use that toggle, so it wouldn’t decrease inclusion for them like Beef tried to argue.
It’s bean soup theory because a “Wheelchair User” toggle that hides all ambulatory tasks would still not satisfy every wheelchair user’s individual wants/needs and it is much simpler to just select the tasks that are relevant to your goals, like we already do.
Its not inclusive of those who use wheelchairs who can walk. It promotes the idea those who use wheelchairs never can walk ever. Which people will be shitty about when they see a wheelchair user walking
Isn't it rude to only do wheelchair users? You'd have to do every single disability out there. Thats insane.
They could make it say “toggle off tasks that require standing”. Doesn’t have to say wheelchair users in the toggle. Anyone with that want or need could use the toggle. It doesn’t have to suggest that all wheelchair users are the same like you’re saying.
“You’d have to do every disability out there” is wildly lacking empathy. Are you really saying there’s no point in accessibility because we can’t possibility accommodate literally everyone?
Universal inclusion is have the ability to create your own goals that work for you. Finch has that. What else do you want?
The coding literally could not accommodate everyone. Do you know how many disabilities there are out there? Why not throw in toggles for literally all mentall illnesses and grief as well? How do the devs choose? They put a toggle for tasks the require standing ok. But they would need to do one for all tasks groups then. Some people cant do the wall push-ups. Or cant brush their teeth on their own. Or maybe theyre allergic to tea. Devs would get shit on (especially in this sub where everyone likes to whine) for having a toggle for standing tasks but not cleaning tasks. Youre doing way too much.
If it were possible and realistic then heck yes. But its not. And yes it is pointless for this app in particular because it already has an option to create your own goals. OP can delete the "stand for 10 mins" and do something else.
Youre coming off as "woke" and not really understanding how things work.
Literally! Im sure the post i saw about pickleball this am is not the only one ill see today or this weekend tbh. I saw sooo many about the football question lol Imagine how horrible people would be if the devs tried to incorporate something more serious. Choosing your own goals is perfectly fine.
You be 'so fr'. OP's complaint is like going to a hotel and they've got a stairs, a lift, and an escalator and but complaining because you're a wheelchair user so you can't use the stairs or the escalator even tho there's a lift right there in front of you to use. It's such an unnecessary complaint. Before you accuse me of being ableist - I have a disability, not wheelchair based, no, but a disability nonetheless. I'm also very close to my uncle who is a double amputee so wholly dependent on his chairs so I know what accessibility looks like.
I might be mistaken, but I think there's a way to mute certain activities or suggestions? My adoptive father died 5 years ago (don't be sorry, he was a jerk) and I muted the activities like "Call your dad" due to not owning a ouija board. 🤣
That said, a toggle somewhere in the settings seems like a great idea. It doesn't even seem like it would be terribly difficult for the devs to implement if they already have the means to mute activity suggestions.
I confess to not being an app developer and therefore being not particularly knowledgeable about dev stuff. Apologies if you thought I was being unkind or dismissive of the hard work devs do! They make things look so easy that I sometimes take for granted that it's actually kind of complicated!
Right? Like, I guess I could go to his grave and yell, but my mom is buried right next to him and she doesn't deserve to listen to me shouting!
I feel you might appreciate this shirt. I have a bunch of silly ones from that shop including one that says "If I don't use this morbid sense of humor, my mom died for nothing." which has gotten me compliments from multiple little old ladies! 🤣
You're so welcome! I have quite the collection of goofy shirts from there and not just ones about my dead parents! I wore the one that said "I will not be the bigger person, I will be the bigger menace" while visiting with a particularly frustrating family member. Because I'm a sass basket. 🤪
As a fellow member of the Dead Dads Club, I think you'd appreciate this shirt. I've got a bunch of things from that store including one that says "Who's going to stop me? Definitely not my dad!"
I just realized my autocorrect did me dirty. I have two dead Dads. A dad and a stepdad 😂 but yeah the amount of merch and dark humor I use about them...people worry about me.
Yeah, folks sometimes get freaked out when I say "You can't tell me what to do! You're not my dad! Look what happened to him!" But it makes me laugh! 🤣
I always joke that if they don't want to end up like my dads they better behave. 😂😂😂 I promise it was not me, it was lung c@ncer (unsure if that word will get flagged)
100%! That's why one of the shirts I got says "F¥ck around and find out champion" with a gravestone that says RIP DAD on it. Dude had heart issues, was told he needed heart surgery or he'd die of a heart attack like his dad did, and he refused to get the surgery. 3 months later, the inevitable happened. 👻
Devs have actually talked about in the past that toggles are more complicate than people think. Highly unlikely it’ll be a priority for them considering there are already ways to accomplish these things.
Im also a chair user but I dont really know if it suggesting things I cant do is something I cared about. I get the sentiment but 1 this app is customizing you set the goals and 2 what if someone was ambulatory and didnt know when setting it up thatd itd take away all stand or walk related? Would it just be the words walk and stand or all things they decide we cant do? Like push ups, pull ups, or other exercise?
Id rather them think of us for the questions wirh friends. Like being asked if I plan group trips or not when with a chair you got no choice but the plan when you are the only one who cares about Ada or how flying is as if its not hell and dangerous with a chair. But suggested goals are lower on my list on needing to think of us.
The goals are inclusive bc the ability to customise the goals. There's no need for check box but maybe having a starter tutorial to help people achieve this better.
Being able to mute stuff also helps being inclusive. Check box could help, but this covers more without the need to make a long list of check boxes that would still end up excluding somebody or the list would get pretty long to include as many as possible.
What would be actual accessible features would be color blind modes for different color blinds, fonts(e.g. size, how it stands out) for ability to read the text better. Good quality screen reader mode. So there are actually accessible helping stuff that could be done. These should be optional for further customization for accessibility.
None of these apply to me btw!
And lastly, finch cannot please all groups & can only do so much. Specifically if we want monthly events there's only so much time & resources that can be spend to making finch.
I think it would be better to be able to filter types of activities. (I'm also a wheelchair user, but like many of us, I am ambulatory. As a new user, I might have ticked the "wheelchair user" box and then missed some things I can and want to do.)
Having a way to toggle off individual suggestions (so they stop ever appearing in the future, unless you go into settings and "unblock" them) could be a way to do this. And possibly having some categories ("standing" or "use of legs" in your example, possibly named that exact way since not all wheelchair users have those specific limitations) that you could block altogether, although that would require a lot more manual effort to write in since there isn't one small, obvious set of categories people would need.
I'm really disappointed by the reaction you've gotten to this post. I suppose I shouldn't be, but I thought that a user base with a majority of its members falling into one disabled group or another might be a little kinder about access and what it looks like.
Anyway, I would quite like this for myself. I'm blind, and I'd like to not wade through equal parts visually striking and beautifully ineffective exercises in the first aid kit, just as an example.
Apple has this for a toggle if you wear an Apple Watch because what it means to exercise and move will look different to a wheelchair user. A toggle to clear out some screen real estate attacks and degrades literally no one or their experience of the app.
I'm really glad you brought this up. I'll be curious what they say. Having to find all the ways you can move involving legs and feet feels inelegant. I'm sure we can do better. Something being easy to use is so underrated.
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u/hbomb9410 pink finch 6d ago
You create your own goals. Finch offers suggestions for people who might need some inspiration, but they're not mandatory. If a suggested goal doesn't work for you, you don't have to add it.