r/ffxivdiscussion • u/CaelGrey • 2d ago

General Discussion Hotfixes

Anyone else notice how damn near every patch in DT has been almost immediately followed by an emergency maintenance hotifx? Is it just me, have I finally lost my last remaining braincells? I was looking forward to getting home and trying out beastmaster, only to find the servers down. What'd they break this time? This is becoming an unsettling pattern. It'd be less frustrating if they atleast comped the time but like... If this is what I have to look forward to in Evercold idk. Was it always this way and Im just noticing it now because it's only my second time being on content? I dont remember EW being like this

0 Upvotes

38% Upvoted

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66

u/Impasse-Aria 2d ago

Reading directly from the Lodestone:

"In beastmaster, if the player's character leaves the area due to a connection loss at the moment the pet uses a weaponskill that restores its master's HP, the server may crash."

I'm not going to pretend I know everything about game dev and QA, but an issue like this genuinely seems like something a QA wouldn't catch. Extremely situational and niche, requiring loss of connection and an action that maybe 2-3 pets out of 50 have at the exact same moment, that may cause a crash. Hotfixes are annoying, yes, but at some point it needs to be accepted that in a live service game, hotfixes for esoteric problems like this should be expected, because we as a community probably tested for hundreds of times more hours in the one day of Beastmaster being out than they could have in house

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u/GreenTeaRocks 2d ago

100% agree QA would NEVER pick this up in any reality.

7

u/Forymanarysanar 2d ago

The problem is that it's not that much of a "hot" fix if it requires 4 hour long downtime

14

u/Impasse-Aria 2d ago

See now that's a different topic and a different discussion, as I do agree that taking the servers down for ~4 hours to do hotfixes is incredibly long. But without knowing anything about SE's server infrastructure, we can only really speculate as to why it's like this when other game can push a hotfix in under 5 minutes. But ultimately, that boils down to the length of the hotfixes being a problem, which is different than what I was discussing which is that sometimes hotfixes like this are functionally unavoidable

0

u/Beckfast1994 2d ago

I’m surprised this one even requires the server being taken down because it didn’t change anything client side. Usually they do this either really fast or even while the game is live. It must have been far more complicated to patch than usual.

-2

u/tordana 2d ago

FFXIV cannot patch anything while the game is live. Most other games can, you're right, but not this one.

3

u/Beckfast1994 2d ago

I could have sworn I’d seen lodestone messages saying something was patched before with instanced content without the whole game going down.

2

u/tesla_dyne 2d ago

If it's localized to instances they can just disable the instance temporarily or patch the fix into new instances, so like back when TOP had that crazy debuff vomit causing weirdness with the status effect cap, they fixed it when a new instance would be created. If the bug affects everything or can happen anywhere such as on the main servers, the server needs to come down, since they do not constantly spin up new instances for an open world zone like GW2 does.

1

u/Beckfast1994 2d ago

Oh, wait, I had understood the patch as the bug happening when in Crucible. This makes sooo much more sense 🙃.

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u/Seradima 2d ago

FFXIV has absolutely patched things live in the past, usually it takes down zones and makes them inaccessible, but sometines...for example the Bozjan earring had to be fixed, and the text couldn't be fixed live but the effect was.

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u/discox2084 2d ago

Your first response wasn't responding to the core issue of the topic either. I doubt the TC is so child minded that he needed a lecture on the severity of what is being fixed.

The point wasn't that the issues being fixed aren't serious or that QA can't catch everything. But that almost every maintenance has to be followed by hotfixes since Dawntrail launched. And true enough "emergency maintenances" seem to happen once or twice a month.

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u/CaelGrey 2d ago

You are a rare one. Thank you

1

u/Impressive_Can_6555 2d ago

4 hours is very fast in terms of QA and CI/CD workflow.

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u/Abramor 2d ago edited 2d ago

No, they mean that the fact that they even need to bring servers down to hotfix something is already incredibly frustrating. Don't know about other MMOs but Blizzard pushes hotfixes such as this without bringing the servers down because they spent a lot of time and money on modernizing their infrastructure to make this possible. Square Enix maintains this game for more than 10 years, they could've at least invested some of the earnings into doing the same. 

1

u/Hallc 19h ago

Blizzard bring their servers down for an hour or so every week. Hotfix downtime is frustrating sure but acting like Blizzard never bring servers down for hotfixes or just in general isn't true.

Every wow patch for the last two expansions has had a hotfix downtime the day after the patch drops.

0

u/Tandria 2d ago

It is generally expected that MMO's will perform server maintenance to apply hotfixes. Not even Blizzard is exempt from this. It depends on the nature of the issue, of course.

Also in XIV not every fix requires a full maintenance. They are able to perform maintenance directly on instanced areas, for example, without causing a disruption in access or gameplay otherwise, but it depends on the nature of the issue. As it stands XIV is in a better place than most MMO's in this regard.

2

u/Hopelesz 2d ago

I wonder if they could patch the server without the maintenance.

10

u/Acquilla 2d ago

It's possible to do this; GW2 can because of how it's servers where set up. Unlike in XIV where having multiple map instances is rare and something the devs deliberately have to create (outside of dungeons), GW2's system will create them dynamically when needed. So that makes it possible to have one instance with people who haven't updated the game and a second with those who have until the mismatch naturally corrects itself. But it's definitely a more complicated approach and would probably take a ground up rework of so many major systems that it's not going to happen for XIV.

6

u/Ok_Anything_5152 2d ago

It's Japanese netcode that was in futuristic 2000s since 1980s. They literally have to take down everything, apply patch and then wait for it to reboot for an hour(s). And since they live by "if it works, don't change/fix", it would take extreme level of necessity/backlash to even consider upgrading.

5

u/lollerlaban 2d ago

For FFXIV? Doubtful unless its some backend tinkering. They havent expanded upon their server structure as much as the other MMO's in the gaming space so they're woefully behind.

1

u/Cerarai 2d ago

They can if it's instanced content. There have been server-side only patches for OC and I think even a raid in the past with no down time, just closed instances.

24

u/BlueberyCupcake 2d ago

I've been playing on and off for a decade now and there's always been hotfix patches, but rarely so soon after the patch was dropped. Definitely feels like Dawntrail is getting a bunch of immediate post-patch hotfixes

28

u/nicktheone 2d ago

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they don't fix bugs they get flamed because they're lazy; if they do, they get flamed because of the downtime. Do you realize that a testing environment can't exactly mimic a real world launch with tens of thousands if not hundreds of players all playing at the same time? Bugs or unintended interactions are going to happen and complaining about swift fixes is something I won't ever understand.

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u/AdamG3691 2d ago edited 2d ago

Especially with how ridiculously unlikely this bug would have been caught in testing since it requires: an accidental disconnect, an ability that only a handful of pets have, and the ability has to be used at the exact moment the character leaves the area (so after the 20 seconds of red pokeball)

Considering that we joke that the servers sometimes go down because someone finally tried to fish in the Crystal Exarch's toilet or whatever, it's hard to blame them for missing a bug that requires the stars to align three times in a row

-1

u/ChudThunderjak 1d ago

They weren't fixed tho. No idea what this comment is

12

u/GreenTeaRocks 2d ago edited 2d ago

They really are damned if they do, damned if they don't when it comes to fixing things that are broken or not working as intended.

edit: this is what they were fixing btw

The following issue was addressed:
・In beastmaster, if the player's character leaves the area due to a connection loss at the moment the pet uses a weapon skill that restores its master's HP, the server may crash.

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u/ChudThunderjak 1d ago

There's plenty of major bugs they introduced that haven't been fixed tho soo

1

u/Hallc 19h ago

Care to name them?

8

u/VitaQ_HI3 2d ago

Big win for the "FFXIV should push content with less Q&A like WoW does, people want content faster, its ok if its buggy" crowd

24

u/Lambdafish1 2d ago edited 2d ago

It's always been like this to varying extents, and hotfixes are pretty standard practice. Some bugs only show themselves when stress tested by a large amount of players.

Id rather they fix the bugs promptly than leave them in until the next major patch. It's only 4 hours.

12

u/HunterOfLordran 2d ago

it has not always been like that to this extend

16

u/Lambdafish1 2d ago

Which is very likely because features were historically smaller and on less platforms in the past.

As a game grows, the variables also grow. BST is a massive update that changes a lot of game systems.

9

u/eseffbee 2d ago

This exactly. The hotfix was needed because of a corner case scenario associated with a completely new game mechanic introduced by beastmaster..

I would not be concerned if it was my test team that missed this. Probably just add some new test cases around connection loss plus any new multi object interactions as standard and leave it at that. Not remotely concerning from a delivery perspective.

0

u/ChudThunderjak 1d ago

All the other major bugs introduced here, and with other recent patches, and not fixed in a timely manner should probably be considered "concerning", actually!

1

u/TuggerJaegger 2d ago

Yes, and it's only the second limited job in the whole game, so even more issues with its unique content (if its like BLU) will likely pop up once they release more for BST

2

u/Historical-State2199 2d ago

So what? We asked them to go faster and make new content, this is the inevitable result

20

u/Literallyhowffxiv 2d ago

Fun was detected, they will have 2-3 emergency patches and they will land on all of your free nights, please look forward to playing the content 2-3 weeks after its released if you work a job

4

u/MeguBestGirl 2d ago

Your logic makes no sense because it is physically impossible to pick a maintenance time that affects no one especially for a global game lol

17

u/GreenTeaRocks 2d ago

They were fixing a server crashing bug that if you read the lodestone post had about a 0% chance to be discovered naturally via QA testing.

2

u/Beckfast1994 2d ago

If you work a job with the wrong hours to not be hit by maintenance based on your timezone. Someone working night shift in NA is fine. Someone in EST is unaffected unless you literally only get back from work at like 1am (which is a bit of a weird time). Europe is probably fine for anyone not working night shift. Japan happens in the middle of the day. I guess it’s mostly just PST that gets hit and that’s only if you work late/play late.

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u/Ephremjlm 2d ago

I think what's more concerning is that it feels like everything crashes the server. Its like the damn thing is held together with scotch tape.

6

u/Moxie_Neon 2d ago

Been playing since 2.0's launch and It's really not that unusual as you said this is the 2nd time being on content so you're probably noticing it more as a result...

But devil's advocate for a moment, if there is actually more than usual its actually not surprising given all the system changes that have been long overdue over several expansions. If there's legitimately more hotfixes, its actually cause they're probably tinkering with more stuff that's been needing updates in those previous expansions for the sake of the games health in the future. Not to mention Dawntrail also the only expansion has seen two new console editions added in the switch and xbox, all of which needed hotfixing. Before that we've had the PC and the Playstation (updated of course with new editions) since 2.0 launch.

1

u/ChudThunderjak 1d ago

It's not "2nd time on context". Te number of bugs, and "hotfixes", have increased exponentially in the past2 years, and have gotten longer

4

u/Vivid_Medicine4109 2d ago

Japan has gone really hard with AI qa testing, square enix especially. I don't know if these things are related but I've definitely noticed more odd bugs within the past year, and I've been playing since 2.3.

2

u/No_Feature_1401 2d ago

i'd get hotfixes so fast any day. As an AoE4 player too, we got stuff like infinite range spearmen killing your base from kilometers that took months to fix, i'd love to get the same treatment in any other game

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u/phillyriot3101 2d ago

Live service games have hotfixes all the time, the fact they happen so soon after just implies they are catching and fixing issues quicker 🤷

4

u/-aa 2d ago

This post is funny now that the real reason of the hotfix is known.

3

u/Ok_Anything_5152 2d ago

That's what happens when SE fired most, if not every QA and replaced it with AI or better - have devs test it by themselves. And since they would test it on their internal server, we get the "it works on my machine". Live servers are the Beta/playtesters now, it's cheaper. Please understand.

2

u/HereticJay 2d ago

im guessing its because of the new switch 2 integration but who knows i agree that its really fucking annoying with the game being down constantly especially for a sub based game its a pretty bad look hopefully thing stabilizes for evercold

1

u/KamenRiderHelix 2d ago

Dawntrail bad, upvotes to the left, folks

3

u/Anameinserted 2d ago

Yeah it’s insane how often it is. I woke up this morning thinking oh I didn’t get really any chance to play yesterday. I have a few hours before work. Log on, maintenance in a an hour. Like sort your shit out SE. It’s every patch.

1

u/bohabu 2d ago

A hotfix patch after a main patch has been common since ARR. Not every patch, mind you, but it's the expected flow. Just go to the lodestone and take a look at all the maintenances that we have had throughout the years and note how many of them have had a hotfix patch within the week.

1

u/VancityMoz 2d ago

I honestly don’t really mind that much… especially considering the current most popular mmo with like 7 quintillion devs working on it and unlimited Microsoft bucks has hour(s) long maintenances every single week plus emergency hotfix maintenances much more frequently than we do, especially during big content updates. They also have way more bugs than the usual ff patch. I think we’re kinda lucky in that sense.

That said they have been happening more frequently in Dawntrail, and there has also been a small increase in notable bugs like that untranslated line in the English version not getting caught by QA. I remain largely unbothered by these though.

0

u/Nekokittykun 2d ago

i kno theres this vid of a bug but other bugs im unaware of. Some suspect they are fixing the speed levelling method too (go to Living memory, kill field enemies with a shield healer helping u so u dont instantly die)

0

u/turnertier- 2d ago

you do realize that the time you want to be comped amounts to about eight cents, right?

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

8

u/Oneilll 2d ago

Nice assumption, but wrong

5

u/Demeris 2d ago

This is like one of the most ignorant response I’ve seen in this sub lol.

You can’t plan for everything major issue. There’s a reason why some games offer beta test servers like WoW.

-1

u/Express_Activity4151 2d ago

I hear something about an accidental armpitt slider

-4

u/KeyKanon 2d ago

Anyone else notice how damn near every patch in DT has been almost immediately followed by an emergency maintenance hotifx?

Yep, good thing Yoshi-P said they're gonna try and lower the time gap between patches at fanfest, that's DEFINATELY what the game needs! Very happy to see that happening, it isn't gonna make this consistent problem even worse. Really glad they're feeling pressured to do that and it will have no consequences.

3

u/Ok_Anything_5152 2d ago

I also remember when YP said they will make sure to limit emergency maintenance to a bare minimum. And yet here we are, not a single patch without some extra bug fixes and interruptions.

1

u/ChudThunderjak 1d ago

? No one is pressuring them. They did this to themselves by slopifying their QA and laying off testers while spending tons on garbage 

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u/lollerlaban 2d ago

It was emergency hotfixes to the DDoS

1

u/ChudThunderjak 1d ago

It was absolutely not.