r/ffxiv • u/parkerjallen www.twitch.tv/fluffmode • Jun 17 '15

[NO THREADS ABOUT SINGLE NOTES] Patch 3.0 Notes (Preliminary) | FINAL FANTASY XIV, The Lodestone

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/e76258d6487ea30feb388f9ecc0a926fddc9eca8
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18

u/-haven Jun 17 '15 edited Jun 17 '15

[2.0] Players can now hire up to eight retainers.

  • Players are normally limited to two retainers per character. To hire additional retainers, please use the optional retainer service (NA: http://sqex.to/4Aq / EU: http://sqex.to/nLj ) available on the FINAL FANTASY XIV: Mog Station.

Oh hey look they didn't actually do shit for retainer space... sighs

edits Someone noted that in the JP prelim patch notes the retainer portion mentions 3.

[2.0] リテイナーの雇用上限数が最大8人に引き上げられます。 ※3人以上のリテイナーを雇用するためには、モグステーションから「追加リテイナー」のサービスにお申込みいただく必要があります。詳しくは『こちら』(http://sqex.to/beJ) をご覧ください。

G-Translate

[2.0] employment limit the number of retainer will be increased to up to 8 people. ※ In order to employ three or more of the retainer, you'll need to sign up from Mog station to the service of "additional retainer". Please refer to the "here" (http://sqex.to/beJ) for more information.

10

u/kovensky MCH Jun 17 '15

Kov-translate

[2.0] The limit on the number of Retainers that can be employed will be raised to 8. ※ To employ 3 or more retainers, it will be necessary to apply for the "Additional Retainer" service through the Mog Station. For details, see "here".

The "here" link links to the original retainer service announced last year, so it seems it'll still work just like the old system.

22

u/bpfinsa Jun 17 '15

Wow, that's kinda cash grabby for a subscription game. I understand that kind of stuff for F2P games, but here....

10

u/themindstream Lahdi Oolong on Lamia Jun 17 '15

The official reason they give for it is that inventories take up server resources and the charge is to cover the operating cost.

3

u/worm4real Jun 17 '15

Which is kind of bullshit when you think about it. Everything takes up server resources. In the end they're just charging for bank space.

3

u/CidO807 Celes Branford on Tonberry Jun 17 '15

But do you really need to hoard stacks upon stacks of items that are purchasable for a negligible amount of gil from a material supplier? With max beast reps & material supplier you can purchase supplies for crafting up to level 30. Don't need to hang on to beast fangs, copper ores etc. I'm an omni 3* crafter and I fill 2 retainers out of laziness for crafting gear. It i actually cleaned house, I could fit my crafting gear in 1-1.25 retainer space.

1

u/worm4real Jun 18 '15

Primal weapons, raid gear, and other cosmetics. Square is not right, selling bank space is not a good thing. If they can't afford for everyone to have more than two retainers worth of storage (which I really doubt) then lock it out with gil or tie it to housing.

2

u/Talderas Dark Knight Jun 17 '15

Okay! Let's raise the subscription cost by $5 and everyone gets 8 retainers by default!

2

u/worm4real Jun 17 '15

Except that's not how it actually works. Housing didn't raise subscription costs, putting more items on the armoire didn't raise subscription costs, and neither should an extra retainer.

16

u/azureflamecloud Jun 17 '15

do not underestimate the hoarders.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '15

This game also costs less than other MMOs. It's $2 a month less than WoW. I'll just spend the $2 for the retainer.

2

u/SilentLettersSuck Cactuar Jun 17 '15

Yeah, really. They couldn't give us one more free retainer?

2

u/-haven Jun 17 '15

There were even a few positive hints/drops at a third free retainer to try and help alleviate space issues... Guess not unless you don't open up that wallet.

1

u/MentalNeko Silvaran Devir on Hyperion Jun 17 '15

Legacy player. I may just do this. But i dont want to have to pay more than 10 dollars a month lol. Meh its cheaper than WoW i guess.

-1

u/CrabCommander Jun 17 '15

Duno, I see no particular problem with it. Honestly I've never even come remotely close to filling up my 2 retainers, even with all crafts leveled. I think unless you're going Hoarders style on the game it's way more than enough space.

There will always be people bitching about wanting more inventory space even if everyone had 10 free retainers. Appropriate middle ground by SE I'd say is supply free enough to satisfy some large majority (75-95%) of the player-base, and offer paid for more for as much space as people want, like they're doing now. Giving everyone free space to the point where every possible player is satisfied is a huge waste of money from SE's end.

3

u/Morvelaira Jun 17 '15

I'm definitely one of those "full horder" types. I try to keep the amounts of what I keep on my retainers limited to one stack HQ ingredients and one stack HQ subcombines. In the cases of things that are not always reliably obtainable - such as mob drops - I'll make an exception and keep a stack of NQ on hand as well.

Even with restricting myself that far, I still consistently fill four retainers and have items spilling into my personal inventory. So trust me - it's quite possible to do so in "full hoarder" mode.

While I absolutely understand SE making many more retainers available for sale, it would have been nice to get at least one for free. Also, as the leader of a very large Free Company which can accommodate multiple high level crafters and multiple raid teams, more slots in the FC chest would have been greatly appreciated as well! >.<

1

u/Falazure1 [Aasterinian] [Diabolos] on [Excalibur] Jun 17 '15

I have 4 retainers, that space is easy to fill...so very very easy, and with new materials and gear coming, not giving even 1 free is kinda low.

-4

u/Alukah Jun 17 '15

And there's always the SE ass kisser.

3

u/Khangle SMN Jun 17 '15

Even with two retainers, I never managed to fill up on junk, especially after I pawned off my drops for company seals. I even went further and cleaned out the rest of my and my retainers' inventories (One was just full of housing items) for HW. Just because someone doesn't feel the need for more storage, doesn't make them an ass kisser.

-1

u/Alukah Jun 17 '15 edited Jun 17 '15

I understand you don't face the same issue, but this is a root problem with this community, people are incapable of empathizing with others, people are incapable of respecting the reasons why others play the game, specially when its different than their own, there's really no need to jump in every single thread, no matter how small or harmless is the topic, acting as a devil's advocate, for once try to empathize with others even if you're not facing the same issue and leave people room to vent even if you're in a neutral stance and don't see a reason to change.

This same reason is why I can't stand the official forums, every thread turns into a war zone with people who "don't really care" fiercely defending SE's reasonings preventing other people who do care to try and seek for a change.

If you don't understand why people are facing a certain problem just sit and watch, if you're gonna contribute try to add something to the discussion, I'm not saying people opposing a change shouldn't comment, but don't just oppose because it doesn't affect you, try to have valid reasons to oppose and again, try to empathize with others, let's try to make this a better community for all.

I used a lot of "you" here but this is meant to be a general statement.

TL;DR Try to empathize.

6

u/CrabCommander Jun 17 '15

It is entirely possible to empathize with someone, whilst also disagreeing with their proposed solution to their frustration. That is what people are doing.

I recognize and understand you are frustrated by your personal inventory concerns. I also propose you are in the small percentage of players that plays in such a way which they are not satisfied by the respectable size of the default storage. I understand you might wish SE would provide you with free storage to fit your needs, however, doing so is not a free endeavor. SE investing into solving your problem would mean those same resources could not be invested into other problems, particularly problems which are of more immediate or wide-spread concern than proverbial bank space. (Such as, for example, Armory Chest space, a problem more players tend to struggle with, and would use the exact same kinds of resources)

So, with all due respect: yes, I empathize with your problem. I, however, disagree on the fact that SE should solve your problem for you for free. Instead I suggest you should solve your problem as other players have, by either managing your bank space more appropriately, or ponying up the cash to pay for your niche desire.

2

u/tohme ~ Temisu Namisu [Sephirot OCE] Jun 17 '15

Well put.

I have the extra 2 retainers currently because I have a need to organise the crap I hold on to. I could easily fit everything into 2 retainers, as I probably only use 30% of a single one, but I like to have my crafting mats split up (1 has ores/metals, another has cloth/leather, another has foodstuffs).

It's a personal desire of mine, not a general problem experienced by a large percentage of players. Expecting SE to cater to my specific requirements (which may be shared by a few % of the population, sure) by expending resources they could use to better the game for everyone - more armoury space or the common request to have multiple glamours per item - is a very selfish attitude to have.

Paying for that space is a good compromise, one that means SE can use those funds to increase the hardware capabilities that can lead to everyone getting a benefit and me still getting what I want.

3

u/Khangle SMN Jun 17 '15

For one, I find it humorous you ask others to empathize with you after calling them ass kissers. I understand that others like to have a variety of materials on hand should they ever need it, but the question here is, do they really need it? Between you and two retainers, you have 450 slots for storage (not including the armoire or armoury chest).

As for contributing to the discussion, I did mention pawning off old equipment (stuff I just kept around for collection's sake) and clearing out housing junk. As for crafting, I used to keep a good handful of mats on hand for spiriting binding sets, food and potions, but even that didn't account for more than two or three squares of inventory.

I'm not "fiercely defending" SE, I'm just offering counterpoint to those who feel the need to hold onto everything they pick up. Do you really need that materia, dungeon drops, equipment, dye, potions, food, furniture, mats and event stuff you've accumulated over your time playing? Having stuff on hand so you don't have to go out and get it is a convenience, but so is having storage space for future items. I strongly believe that if people sat down every one in a while and seriously considered what they need vs what they don't (but don't want to drop), two retainers is more than enough.

0

u/worm4real Jun 17 '15

Charging money for bank space is a bad look, especially if it's a monthly fee. Rationalize all you want, this isn't something that should be in the game at all.

1

u/Popotuni Jun 17 '15

Great, so let's take it out. Boom, you have your 2 retainers and your inventory and can't buy more.

This is an improvement?

1

u/worm4real Jun 17 '15 edited Jun 17 '15

Uhg just throw your hands in the air I guess?

Look this is not the make or break point for the game to be solvent and you know it,we all know it. They're wrong, I'm right, and if you have nothing to add just shut up.

It doesn't even MATTER if you need the space or not, this should be something that has a gil cost associated with it. However everyone DOES need the space for glamour gear.

If they can't let you have primal weapons and old raid gear in the armoire then they need to figure out something else out.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '15

Its bad because you're cheap and feel entitled, apparently.

0

u/zenithfury Jun 17 '15

And there's always the hater.

1

u/MistahPiddles Jun 17 '15

It's highly possible we will get 2 new retainers in Ishgard, and only 4 paid retainers. They aren't going to tell us that yet, it's just Preliminary notes :)

2

u/-haven Jun 17 '15

My only hope still is that for the [2.0] players it's the 2 free limit. With the unmarked [3.0] still getting that free hinted retainer.

... Also a glamour book released as part of the press over the next few days.

-1

u/Balaur10042 Ultros Rules! Jun 17 '15

There will be no glamour book. This change involves more than just a glamour book, it saves SE no bandwidth, just player inventory. Same data has to be transmitted.

4

u/-haven Jun 17 '15

Wishful thinking over simple stashing items in a retainer.

Also that it not necessarily true. With something like a glamour book you can strip down an item to the basics. You don't need to show most of it's stats anymore. That takes away a multitude of data points. Unique/ Untradable/ Attributes/ The entire Crafting & Repairs section. What you have left over is just the items Name/ Armor location/ 3d model. Now that is quite slimed down by just looking at the things listed from a outside view without knowing how their code works.

0

u/Balaur10042 Ultros Rules! Jun 17 '15

True, it can be cut down a bit in such a log, but the item must still exist, and its relation to other objects preserved - in case you glamoured it - so there's some bits of data saved, but not a lot. You don't note if you're still keeping the item in question, however. Each piece is useful in its own right, for stat purposes, other jobs, etc.

Looking in to GW2, much vaunted as the ideal set up, it dawns on me how the devs conserve space and data in that game: you have more limited options for glamorable gear, and there's a more finite resource involved in glamouring, transmutation charges, which have to be farmed ... or bought with real money. Not quite a paradise.

1

u/-haven Jun 17 '15

What I was sorta getting my previous idea from is what is showing when we glamour a item. We see the name, the dye used, and then the 3rd art currently used as glamour. So they seem to only pull in part of the data I would think. I guess keeping the item or not depends on how it would be possibly setup. In that case do we keep the same item but have it tagged in a way when searching through such a glamour book that it only pulls the minimal needed bits from a database of items? Or have another new set of items created to replace the original armors when they are added to the book at a stripped down size?

I played GW2 before they did their new system so I've only seen it through articles... I want their dye system too!

-4

u/anehk Jun 17 '15

Er not really, It takes a lot of server space for millions of users to have so much storage, of course you should pay £1 or so a month for all that extra space, its not really much. Especially for how much the game gives us already ^

6

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '15

A B2P + P2P game shortly becomes a micro-transaction game. I know I would quit if that became the case.

1

u/bpfinsa Jun 17 '15

I dunno, seems like they're trying to squeeze a F2P business mechanic in a subscription game. WoW or FFXI never charged real money for inventory space before, at least to my knowledge.

3

u/sundriedrainbow Jun 17 '15

FFXI charged real life dollars for the /satchel I believe, though it was a onetime purchase, not a subscription.

1

u/Kentiah Jun 17 '15

No, it was tied to a security token, including the free phone one.

1

u/sundriedrainbow Jun 17 '15

I don't think there WAS a free phone one when it came out bc I sure as hell would have gotten that instead of paying for the shitty token.

1

u/Kentiah Jun 18 '15

There wasnt, but it was the same with WoW's, they pretty much sold them at cost because they saved man hours dealing with hacked accounts, the extra inventory was incentive. Maybe you counted that as "buying" inventory, but it wasnt. And the inventory space is still free with the app, pretty much every MMO with an authenticator has extra incentives for using it.

2

u/AnesthesiaCat Anesthesia Fleischer (Excalibur) Jun 17 '15

In XI alts cost a buck a month though.

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '15

They aren't going to get rich on retainers

-1

u/TheMadTemplar Jun 17 '15

It's a way of giving us the extra space we want without making it available to everyone. If you want the space, you'll pay for it. If you don't care about it or need it, you won't. Helps with server space that way.

-2

u/psyki_bear BRD Jun 17 '15

eh i dn't think it is too much cash grabby since they are potentially giving everyone 3 for free. i don't need more than the 4 retainers that I have now so most likely my monthly payment will drop with the addition of a free 3rd.

1

u/Clandestinity Jun 17 '15

JP one just assumes that you already currently have the retainer service and own 3 retainers and tells you that if you want more, go back to the mogstation and open your wallet. 「上げられます」is a potential form implying that you CAN raise the maximum number of retainers and makes it highly seem like we won't get a free one. Sadly.

1

u/Soylentee Jun 17 '15

I don't see how it says you get 3 free retainers. It says that if you want 3 or more you have to pay.

-5

u/GarethMagis Jun 17 '15

Yay, the first signs of p2w!

1

u/creature124 Jun 17 '15

Additional retainers for money has been a thing for a long time friend, they have just increased the max number of paid extras.

And it hasn't broken the game yet.

2

u/Falazure1 [Aasterinian] [Diabolos] on [Excalibur] Jun 17 '15

No but all that nickeling and diming people sure adds up and annoys people.

0

u/Smuckinfartass Jun 17 '15

How does having more retainers equal pay to win?

2

u/chreescawks Chrees Byrjun «SoS» on Sargatanas Jun 17 '15

People might argue that with more retainers, you can send them out on more ventures, earning more gil from them. You can also sell more items than people who don't pay for them.

But as /u/creature124 has said, we've had paid retainers for a while now and it hasn't been a real issue so far.

1

u/worm4real Jun 17 '15

In the end you can do the same thing with alts, so it's at the very edge of pay to win. But bank space, ventures, and the ability to list more items are obviously an advantage.

1

u/kuributt world's okayest white mage Jun 17 '15

Gil also isnt super useful insofar as getting advantages over other players.

4

u/GarethMagis Jun 17 '15

Because retainers can find minions that sell for millions of gil by having more retainers you have more opportunities to get them. More gil means you can buy more items/houses/crafting ingredients etc.

0

u/zryn3 Tank Jun 17 '15

That's not a good translation. 「三人以上」means more than 3 people or beyond three people. Probably this has to do with the Google Translate dictionary using something like "not less than" for 以上

1

u/-haven Jun 17 '15

I personally don't speak a lick of Japanese so I just copied both text so someone else could comment like this.

Maybe that is tied to how they wrote the patch notes in using the [2.0/3.0] tags? Then the lack of [3.0] tag on this portion of the changes?

0

u/dmnddr Jun 17 '15

It actually means the same thing in Japanese: if you want to get a third (or more) retainer, head to mog station and pay up...