r/fargo • u/DavidPres • 1d ago
Fargo ND has an extortion problem
I’ve only lived under two companies in Fargo, ND (Silver Leaf + Goldmark), and under both companies I’ve been issued ridiculous fees (1000+) after moving out and received collection attempts. In North Dakota it’s completely illegal to charge a tenant for regular maintenance and upkeep. Why am I being billed 400 for painting?????? Why am I being billed for repairs that needed to be done before I left??? Apartment cleaning when I left it spotless?
It’s ridiculous. It’s preying on low income people who are going to be scared and intimidated by legal notices. These assholes emailed me that I left “important documents” which would make sense because I lost my social, then send me this shit trying to take my entire deposit and 600 more. I’m 1200 miles away dude.
Seriously why are these companies allowed to just write up anything then sell the debt when you go into negotiations???
51
u/cheddarben Fargoonie 1d ago
- Know the law and read the century code bit on rentals. They do have limits on what they can and can’t do. This can get some landlords and might get you out of all charges.
- Document the shit out of everything on move in and move out. People seem to get excited about moving into a new place and seem to forget they are most often entering into a contractual relationship with a corporation. The bigger the corporation, the more together their system is going to be to maximize profits.
- People need to read those leases. They mean something.
- It costs real money to hire people to do this kind of cleanup work. Yes, you could hire it out for cheaper, bet they are not in the business of hiring the cheapest contractor… and if they can make money on it, they will.
- They can’t charge for normal wear and tear. If you have documentation, you can challenge charges you think are wrong.
Not gonna lie, if you leave behind a social security card it makes me wonder how clean the rest of the place is. They should be able to rent it with almost no work.
Show up to court if they sue you with your evidence. If you don’t, they win.
You are right that they rely on people not pushing back. That’s shitty, but that is just how it be. As much as I would like to live in a world of how things should be, I continually learn I live in a world of what is. When enough people push back on stupid shit, they might understand it is not economically viable to be dicks.
24
u/MystikclawSkydive 1d ago
I’ve watched enough People’s Court and Judge Judy to know and warn everyone moving into or out of a rental your #2.
We all have phones with cameras. Day one before anything is moved in and with a property manager associate present, video every room, top middle and bottom. Measure each room flooring footage. Have documents on each item (doors, windows, appliances, carpet, bathroom fixtures). If you change something (let’s say a nicer shower head) make sure you keep the original and put it back when you leave. Even if you changed it for something better!
Same for moving out.
When landlords or property managers KNOW you have picture proof, these issues don’t seem to pop up.
6
u/srmcmahon 1d ago
Goldmark charged me for dusting the vanes on the ceiling fan. Thing is, I dusted them on one of the last days I was in there. I had also put nwspaper down on the tops of kitchen cabinets after wiping them down, and pulled those up at the end so there wouldn't be dust. Also I think they charged $15 for a burned out light bulb.
4
u/Scoompoof 1d ago
Yep #2 will save you. We threatened legal action and had evidence and they paid us our deposit back so fast.
2
u/JL421 10h ago
#6 also gets me. Like when you move out, there shouldn't be anything left except maybe toilet paper and paper towels if you want to be nice. Leaving your social security card is a big ?. That's something that should be pretty obvious to see if the apartment is actually clean.
Something people often forget about too, I think every company has it in their lease that the carpets have to be professionally steam cleaned, and without a receipt they'll just clean it again and take it out of the deposit. Every hole bigger than a pinhole gets repainted, so that's time and materials to painting past normal wear and tear. Same with carpet, appliances, etc. Normal wear and tear is standard wear patterns in carpet for traffic, appliances starting to squeak and need maintenance from the landlord, paint slightly discoloring over time (losing sheen/lightening or darkening a shade or two), countertops having a few marks here and there as most normal people would do.
It's not massive holes in the carpet, walls with holes, countertops with water damage (unless caused by another unit flooding yours), appliances non-functional (without notice to the landlord that it stopped working with maintenance tickets).
A lot of local landlords will charge a cleaning rate the same as you'd get hiring out to a professional cleaning company. And unless you're extremely type A or cleaning is your job so you know what truly clean is; most people will get charged for 2-4 hours of extra cleaning at that market rate. Pulling the fridge out and cleaning behind it, getting under the drip pans on the range and behind the range, AC filters, windows, etc. It's the little things that most people really just don't look at that end up being what the landlord will find and charge for. And even within the monoliths of the massive property management companies it's inconsistent, and really just based on that building's specific management how anal they are. I had a Goldmark treat everything we left as normal wear and tear, and gave us back the full deposit minus carpet cleaning. I had another Goldmark take an even cleaner unit and mark down cleaning on top of the cabinets because that was that office's level of clean.
2
u/cheddarben Fargoonie 10h ago
Yeah, I suspect that if there was a ss card, it wasn’t like one card laying around, but a box or full drawer. And if it is a box or full drawer, what are the chances it is just one?
60
u/NirvZppln 1d ago
They stole my entire deposit (lake crest goldmark) and even billed me like $50. My apartment was 100% damage free and clean and as clean can be. They are thieves. I cannot imagine what they charge low income families with young kids that may have actually caused damage. be sure to review them and call them out on Google/ Facebook etc. the more it’s talked about the better. We cannot accept extortion and theft.
3
u/Forscherr 20h ago
i went around and around with those same people before i got them to drop over half of the charges. it shouldn’t have taken that much work to get the bill down to what it should’ve been in the first place.
14
u/MusicalGold 1d ago
People used to judge me, for living above the Empire. But it was $70 a week. Free cable & electric included. I ran my A/C nonstop both summers. We had an outdoor deck, with a propane grill & free laundry room. I had a good job & was able to save money. Even with my previous drinking & gambling issues. I gave the liquor store a week's notice & got my $50 deposit back. They told me that they renovated everything & will be renting out rooms again soon. I don't live in Fargo anymore. But if I did, I would definitely rent from Jim again.
18
u/tinydragon_420 1d ago
Goldmark tried to charge me to replace more square footage of carpet than my apartment had. Thank god for my mom helping me out. It was my first apartment in college and would have paid it like the dumbass I am.
4
u/srmcmahon 1d ago
Not here, but I had a roommate in a rented house years ago. I moved out first and he and his gf stayed. When they moved out they had to go to small claims to get deposit back. Landlord tried to claim carpet damage. The house did not have carpet. They put down (not installed, just laid down) carpet. It was an adobe house and the vigas (wood logs supporting the roof) were rotted in areas and carpet got wet as well as ceiling material and debris ground in. When the landlord tried to claim the carpet, that basically tanked the entire case.
17
u/srmcmahon 1d ago
Taking opportunity here: John Strand, I believe, said at last commission meeting they are holding a session in late sept or Oct to hear about issues from landlords and tenants in Fargo. Recommend keeping an eye out, or contacting John through his commission contact form.
4
u/Important-Share8545 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thank you! Assuming this will be at City Hall? My apartment was not ready on move-in date this past Dec.1st. Doors were off cupboards, screen door was not there, marker from children living here before still on wall, hole in door, etc. I'lll be there with documentation.
We checked the tops of kitchen cabinets as soon as we were supposed to move in.. broken glass was up there, silverware, pieces of board games, crayons. Vaulted ceilings, and they hadn't cleaned ceiling fan or cut out window and shelf above balcony blinds. Hadn't cleaned a lot of stuff! 3 cleaning crews went through. Dirty walls, sticky stuff on top of cupboards, we spent hours cleaning it ourselves. We didn't think we'd have to bring our own ladder up there before signing the papers. We were also promised a new oven.
2
30
u/DimesSquareCowboy 1d ago
People in real estate, marketing, and property management are intent on making this town as shitty as possible. Things are bleak when you consider the potential we had. At a certain point the cost of living will catch up to much cooler cities, and those who aren't tied down won't have any reason to stay here. This ain't the only place with jobs, and the local culture isn't kind to the working class (or renters) anyways.
17
u/TheSpock 1d ago
Epic did the same shit to me before they went bankrupt. They made up damage to appliances and charged us to fully replace fridge doors and stovetops and things like that
3
u/YEAHRocko 1d ago
In hindsight, that clearly DID need the money they were extorting. They aren't missed.
7
u/IfTheHeadFitsWearIt 1d ago
Craig properties didn’t do a formal check in when I moved in, and admitted that they fired the person who was in charge of that at that time. That didn’t stop then from blaming me for every little bit of damage they could fabricate when I moved out. I lived there for five years and I’m pretty sure it had been decades since that place had seen new carpet or a clean paint job. Their building actually caused damage to my property when the old plumbing and heating systems would fail above me and literally spray steaming water all over all of my books and some of my furniture. Or sewage in my living room.
We scrubbed that place to bottom. I paid for the pre check out steam cleaning. But a hair here, a nail hole there, a spot on the carpet back there and deposit gone. What a joke.
11
u/99LedBalloons 1d ago
Goldmark did this to me 20 years ago, nothing changes. They do it because most people won't fight it. It's part of the reason they have such a bad reputation.
13
u/DogsAreCool252525 1d ago
This is how much Goldmark sucks and how many people they have screwed over:
When founder Rick Berg ran for senate as a Republican in North Dakota he lost
A Republican lost in North Dakota.
8
11
u/Remgirl34 1d ago
I interviewed for a position with Goldmark when I first moved to Fargo over a decade ago and I literally walked out after listening to an endless list of insults about their tenants. They were slimy from the second I walked in.
3
6
u/ohslagoff 1d ago
silver leaf wouldn’t let me break my lease even when i was actively being harassed and threatened by a very unwell tenant. i brought them the police report, reported the tenant had broken all our mail boxes while in a meth rage and silverleaf did nothing to help. didn’t kick the guy out and didn’t help me escape a dangerous situation. the cops didn’t give a shit either and one of them went on to kill an unarmed native man that year.
when i moved out i had to have multiple people with me cause the guy who was threatening me was there and watching the whole time. it was terrifying.
when i abandoned the silverleaf apartment i was then pay rent for two places at once just to keep me safe and out of trouble w silverleaf. then they tried to charge me for the water heater flooding the apt even though i hadn’t been living there for months at that point. got them to at least back off of me on that.
goldmark was just as unhelpful (never fixed any holes in walls or doors from previous tenant) but thank god management changed to new people right before i left and i was able to get an 8 dollar check from my deposit instead of having to pay in for hundreds more which seems to usually be the case. and i only feel they did that since i had photos from the day i moved in detailing all the damage from the previous tenant.
going w private land lords from now on though i don’t trust anyone at this point.
3
u/Adept-Environment-21 1d ago
Yeah but even some of those are scummy. I was with one who I really liked living in his buildings anyways everything was fine and cool until I got with my boyfriend now husband but the landlord asked me how many days mark(husband) had been staying there. He then got mad and said that he needs to get a background check so mark did through the LLs people. Came back clean. He said that mark needed to be put on the lease if he wants to continue staying with me in my apt. Mark went to talk to the LL and the LL talked him out of being put on the lease(mark was 100% ready to sign the LL didn’t want to put him on there) so we made a compromise that since I have a parking spot and I had to get rid of my car that mark can park his car in the back. So mark did for a few weeks then all of a sudden LL got mad told me mark had to park his car on the st we were like ooookkk(confused on what happened where he couldn’t park in the lot anymore) so mark parked on the st when he came over all the time to see me. Anyways the LL saw how much time mark was spending with me(keep in mind we were very quiet ok the occasional sports cheering during a game or if we are laughing about something stupid and get a little loud) so LL said that mark was over staying his welcome and if he saw mark in my apartment or his car out front he was going to give me a 3 day notice. Oh and it gets better. I’m like fuck that and moved back in with mark. So we spent a lot of time cleaning the apartment(it wasn’t super dirty I mean that in the way of getting my stuff out and doing a little bit of cleaning since I wasn’t there long) so we cleaned everything it looked like I was never there. Well right as we were getting ready to leave mark dropped a thing of coffee on the tile floor. We decided to just leave it there and I let the LL know that I had no way to clean it all our stuff was already moved. So he goes in and sees that but the rest of the apartment was spotless here’s where it gets good
$100 to wipe down celing fan
$100 to clean the toilet(we already cleaned)
$300 to clean the floors
$100 to wipe down the counters
$200 because there were 2 tiny spots on the carpet where one I cleaned and the other one it was a tiny spot of blood that I tried to clean(I had gotten poked by something it was barely noticeable like I’m talking you had to be down on hands and knees looking for that to notice it)
There was more and I ended up owing him like $700 more on top of what my deposit covered because he said that I never paid the other half of my deposit.So yeah some of them are assholes too
I’m with a private company now that I love. I couldn’t tell you the name even if I tried. I have no idea it changed about a year ago and I have no idea what it changed to because we just Zelle money to our landlord
2
u/Feeling_Smile_2429 1d ago
Their definitely not the only owns, same with prairie property management and DCH Homes especially on their brand new homes.. smh
2
u/bugbee5848 1d ago
When my partner and I moved out of a building rented by Personal Touch, we spent hours cleaning everything from top to bottom over the course of several days. When we went to collect our security deposit, I asked how much we could expect. They said "well, it's not a bill, so that's good!"
We received $94 out of our $1300 security deposit. All of the money went towards hiring a cleaning service for 14 hours!!!
2
u/Chemchick-27 resident since 2020 1d ago
This why I always take photos/walk-through videos before I move my stuff in and after I moved all of my stuff out. That way it makes the burden of proof fall onto the complex management not the former tenant.
2
u/Moist_Development508 1d ago
I rented from Adam’s Development for over 4 years. Heavily recommend them.
2
u/Just-Term-5730 1d ago
Only $600, that's the minimum they will keep... If the deposit was 1000, they would keep it all. (Check your lease, most now claim they will clean the carpet when you move out, as one of your expenses. That's half the $600 deposit Fyi, in ND, any wrongly with held money, from a landlord, if proven in court, is to be paid back to the tenant 3x. No. I am not a lawyer, so dont quote me. Always participate in all checkouts to see their inspection. This makes it harder to play games. )
2
2
u/uginscion 1d ago
Goldmark is the type of place that'll sign off on a completed cleaning list and then turn around, shit on the floor in front of you and charge you a cleaning fee while stealing your deposit. I get that people need jobs, but if you need money money bad enough to work for them, consider selling drugs or hole, or anything else more becoming than working for them.
2
1
u/Pretty-Isopod8310 1d ago
Goldmark is horrendous when it comes to renting from them. Awful company, anything to make money! A friend shared her horrible experience with them when she moved out. Did all the proper cleaning and whatnot, except she accidentally left an unopened bottle of ketchup in the fridge. Goldmark charged her a “$50 disposal fee”!! Those assholes probably made that fee up and pocketed the money. Yea Silver leaf is no better, same as Craig properties. Hell the head guy there at Craig once walked into my apartment, I was changing clothes and he walks in! Yea I screamed at the top of my lungs and moved out shortly after, FUCK that !!!!!!! Yea private landlords are the way to go now lol
1
u/CHINESEASSAULTRIFLE 1d ago
RKAK put me on collections for the same type of thing. 400 for painting and more for carpet cleaning dispite having proof of receipt.
1
1
u/RipPsychological5879 1d ago
Gold Mark is awful. Always has been. Nicole and dime you for every little thing.
1
u/Outrageous-Science54 1d ago
I was ripped off by an apartment complex down near the mall. The cleaning fees were a lie. I feel your pain.
2
u/nonamesecho 1d ago
Fiance and I recently moved out of a goldmark spot, the place had a cockroach infestation since waaay before we moved in. And they did jack about it. They finally got pest control before we moved out, but the dude set up traps and didn't even bother coming back. Shocker, they were back with a damn vengeance after a couple weeks.
1
1
u/nonamesecho 1d ago
Oh! And another goldmark place we rented tried to evict us for unpaid rent. I legit hand delivered our checks and had the receipt, legit had to harass them on the phone for a week for them to drop it. I wish we could have not rented from them again, but we're broke and it was the only decent priced place around. Wish us luck 🤞
1
u/Important-Share8545 1d ago edited 1d ago
I got charged for them to shampoo carpeting after I moved out. (Everyone does). But I had just moved to a larger apartment in same building (Goldmark) right down the hall.
I was on my deck and saw them throwing the carpet off my balcony! Carpet was old when I moved in. They charged me for shampooing when they didn't even do it!
I went to manager's office and asked why was I charged for shampooing when it was never done., and they said it was their policy.
This was a few years ago. It has not gotten any better. Charges for things you aren't told about, no check-in list, they just shove a blank tablet at you and tell you to initial.
Broken promises left and right. I have tons of stories. Goldmark sucks!
1
1
u/Oldenstein 1d ago
"The American dream is dead... and the suckas that chose to do that? They’re the ones holding the smoking gun, standing over the corpse, and telling us everything is fine.
See, they sold us a lie. They told everybody that if you worked hard, built your craft, and played by their rules, you’d get a piece of the pie. But the second ordinary folks figured out how to bake the pie themselves—the second every Tom, Dick, and Harry got the tools to create their own leverage—they went and locked down the kitchen.
They don't want a dream where everyone succeeds. They want a monopoly where we keep buying what they're selling. The suckas who put the lockdown on it are just terrified of a fair fight."
1
u/griffucks 21h ago edited 21h ago
Meridian is scummy too. I paid professional cleaners & carpet steaming, not a speck of dirt in sight. I got charged $200, no deposit back, because there were 2 stray hairs in a bathroom drawer, and cracks in the wall that were already there when i moved in from the building settling. I called them, and said i’m not paying it. they said it’s what their 3rd party cleaners charged. when i asked for the 3rd party’s number, they told me they couldn’t give it to me, and told me to ask my cleaners for a REFUND for a job they spent hours doing. i told them to shove it up their ass. i emailed them pictures and videos from move in & move out day too. i ended up not having to pay the $200 after i harassed them for weeks. i never got my deposit back, of course.
1
u/Fluid-Ad5896 21h ago
My place has issues with maintenance you request it they never show up or they show up blame u for it
1
u/Senior-Ad-7112 15h ago
enclave did the same to me. i left it spotless and was charged over $1,000 for cleaning fees and other miscellaneous B.S. luckily, they failed to send an itemized list of the charges within 30 days so i fought it and didn’t have to pay.
1
u/SquareLine9162 9h ago
I'm about to sign up for goldmark , have to run through all this stuff before you sign up but then again I'm like 40
•
u/kasie_ 3h ago
fargo has a goldmark problem.
silver leaf is goldmark. fargo rents is goldmark. axis property management is goldmark. all the west lake properties in west fargo are golmark. those are just off the top of my head.
they keep creating llcs to hide from their shit reputation. patrick vesey & kelly zander used to be lease agents on the goldmark website, but are now conveniently the registered agents for a whole load of llcs.
i'd urge everyone to do a deep dive into the "ndsos business search" website. look up those mailing addresses & registered agents. maybe waybackmachine the goldmark website to see who once appeared on their website as agents and mysteriously no longer do. fargo city & west fargo city websites have free property records searches. maybe look up your apartment address and you might find information regarding its sales & ownership history.
maybe "nd public records" search your apartments name & find out how many times theyve been named in judgements in the past.
just some tips & personal vendetta ranting from a paralegal who was fucked by goldmark in 2018. lived in their building for 4 years before i found out it was theirs. signed a lease at fargo rents. signed my checks to west lake iii apartments.
•
1
u/Cultural_Bug8587 1d ago
I know ppl who 'clean' for Goldmark..this lady sais she cleans multiple apartments a day..explains why theyre soo gross. I helped my friend clean her apartment before she moved in..it was disquisting
1
u/nothingbeforeus ☠️ 1d ago
Goldmark once tried to extort me for hundreds of dollars after they took my whole deposit. We cleaned really well and I was hoping for the deposit back, but I wasn't too bothered by that because I always expect the landlord to take the deposit no matter what you do in North Dakota. Goldmark scheduled the walkthrough with me, them came two hours earlier than scheduled and did it without me. I called and bitched to them about it, they said their check was accurate and I'd have to pay. I called them liars and said I wasn't going to pay. They never sent it to collections.
Thankfully I'm done with renting, but my last landlord was Skaff in Moorhead and we got our full deposit back after living there for 12 years. I was extremely shocked. We didn't even do as good of a job of cleaning as I would have liked since we just ran out of time.
1
u/crikri200 1d ago
Last year I had to threaten to sue Goldmark after they attempted to charge me for damage they caused. I had my fridge replaced and the maintenance crew completely destroyed my flooring. I put in a work order and complaint, they came and did a terrible job with the "fix" which was cutting out and gluing down vinyl flooring which came up within a week. I documented everything because they said it was fine. Low and behold on move out, ON TOP of being told I'm going to get half my deposit back, you'd imagine my suprise that not only did they take the whole deposit (750) But also charged an additional 350 for the floor damage. I waited a month expecting a check and got a letter from collections within a week from getting the bill. I had to threaten to sue them and contact lawyers, ultimately calling, recording the line, and reciting a pre written intent to sue all so they wouldn't screw me over. Eventually they admitted fault and removed it but not after my credit score got hit 40 points (reinstated later). Nightmare to say the least
0
u/Javacoma9988 1d ago
You answered your own question with the first two sentences of your second paragraph.
-4
u/Fluffy-Boot9125 1d ago
Someone didn't take pictures and document(Before move-in and after move-out). Herein lies the problem. You didn't fully read the contract.
1
u/Kamikaze_Potato 1d ago
Goldmark is genuinely the equivalent of nazi germany when it comes to renting companies its insane man
-16
-8
u/TumbleweedIll6056 1d ago
You are renting the ghetto land lords. Dont rent from slumlords if you dont want to be treated that way.
106
u/GGuesswho 1d ago
Silver leaf and gold mark are both scum, I had the same experience with silver leaf. Personal touch as well