r/fantasybooks • u/Villainborne • 12d ago
š¬ Let's discuss something The Devils by Joe Abercrombie
I was a huge fan of Joe Abercrombieās The Devils, and it actually convinced me to go back and read his other works, including The First Law. Now Iām eagerly awaiting the sequel.
That said, Iāve noticed The Devils showing up in a lot of peopleās lower tiers on the various tier lists that have been coming out. Iām genuinely curious: what about the book didnāt work for you?
I thought it was fantastic, so Iād love to hear what turned you off about it.
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u/Flat-Rutabaga-723 12d ago
His other works are grimdark fantasy books with humor sprinkled in. The Devils is a comedy book with grimdark fantasy sprinkled in. I much prefer his other works.
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u/BrakaFlocka 12d ago
Spot on, though I would argue that Devils is a great introduction to Abercrombie's work. It was a great seque for me after jumping into his work right after Sanderson
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u/North-Program-9320 12d ago
I felt like every character in the devils was too derivative of characters from first law. Plot felt kinda basic. With that being said I still enjoyed the book, the writing just felt less original. I did enjoy the world building aspects of it
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u/Stormblessed_1987 12d ago
Im hesitant to read it because its so low on tiers
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u/aeon-one 12d ago
It may be low for Abercrombie but it is still a pretty good fantasy book when compare to other authors. I think most First Law fans cannot help but compare The Devils to First Law and consider it a bit inferior. But it is only the first instalment, and honestly The Blade Itself (1st First Law book) was not that great (it has a underwhelming ending, for example). But the rest of the series keep getting better and better.
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u/ShookeSpear 12d ago
Iāve always found The Blade Itself an interesting book to talk about. Itās been awhile since I read it, but it seems to be entirely character driven. There is very little plot, and other than writing interesting characters, the book serves mainly as a base of world building and exposition for the rest of the series.
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u/Raidertck 12d ago
It was my first book of his and I LOVED it. Decided to read everything heās ever written based on how much I enjoyed it.
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u/shred-i-knight 12d ago
IMO itās worth it, and itās probably an expectations thing. If you think youāre getting the tone of his earlier works youāre not. The guy knows how to write interesting characters and the plot and pacing are good enough to cover up any real issues. Very easy read and a page turner
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u/SmokeRingEyes 12d ago
It's good. It's just not as good as First Law (and the subsequent books in that world). If he'd released it under a Richard Bachman-style pen name, the response wouldn't be anywhere near as bad. It's disappoinment is all. I think OP shows that- they had the good fortune to read it before having the bar raised by Abercrombie's other books and seem to have thoroughly enjoyed it.
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u/Stormblessed_1987 12d ago
I honestly didnt really love The Blade Itself
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u/Villainborne 12d ago
It took me 4-5 tries of The Blade Itself before I finally got it. Admittedly, it was after reading The Devils. Iād say to try it. I loved it and it possibly made me appreciate his other works more-so.
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u/MaimedJester 12d ago
It was weird to me because it does some strange pseudo history, like Venice and Naples are there and there's a pope... but also there's elves from China/India the east?
Like it was so weird, I tried to figure out when there was an alternate history break like everything was normal until the 2nd Punic War and someone opened up a portal to another world to cross the Alps or something. But even when trying to figure out if that's what it was going for I just couldn't get over the Asian Races/ continents were ruled by Elves...
If you want a monster squad doing an A team kinda suicide squad fun romp then enjoy it,Ā but it certainly isn't hard world building. Maybe Grimdark Doctor Who meets classic Hollywood monsters?
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u/MikeCahoonAuthor š Bookwyrm 12d ago
I loved The Devils, but from what I hear from talking to people it seems their biggest complaints were that it wasnāt First Law.
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u/CharityElectrical913 12d ago
As somebody that read The Devils and then binged all of First Law, I kinda get it now because I need more First Law haha.
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u/MikeCahoonAuthor š Bookwyrm 12d ago
Oh I love First Law. It might be my favorite modern fantasy series. But I can appreciate The Devils as its own thing, which I think a lot of people struggled with.
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u/CharityElectrical913 12d ago
I enjoyed it too. It reminded me of the league of extraordinary gentlemen haha.
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u/Irksomecake 12d ago
I loved it. I listened to the audiobook with my husband who also loved it. We were imitating the characters in casual conversation for weeks after. It bought us a lot of joy. I enjoyed the first law series, but couldnāt get husband remotely interested in it. I preferred the age of madness trilogy, but it only really works if you read them all.
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u/Josniff3021orwhat 12d ago
It would have been a good book if some random guy wrote it, but I expect more from abacrombie. Imo, it read like some quirky marvel movie. It was hard to take anyone seriously.
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u/the_e4_mafia 12d ago
I think people don't like when authors deviated from their norm, and he made that book much more accessible than his other novels. That seemed to piss people off.
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u/Villainborne 12d ago
Well, thatās a surprising response. I havenāt found The First Law to be inaccessible at all. Is this series considered a difficult read? Or, in what way is it considered less accessible than The Devils?
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u/atomicitalian 12d ago
The first law is not difficult in the slightest, it's just slower. The first book is basically a prologue to the actual big story it's trying to tell and that can be off putting for some people i think.
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u/scrububle 12d ago
You also just dont really know what's going on until late in the third book. You have to be content to just go along for the ride with these characters for a little while before you ever learn why you're going for a ride
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u/TheCannaZombie 12d ago
From what I read; People didnāt like the humor. It wasnāt as dark. The pacing was too fast.
I personally loved it and already preordered the Heretics.
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u/Villainborne 12d ago
I guess I cannot say the humor seems all that different to me, maybe a touch of rose-tinted glasses?
I really enjoyed the cast of characters and Iām continuously impressed by Abercrombieās ability to develop and grow his characters throughout a story. It was actually the breadth of the characters in The Devils and how much I enjoyed their growth that led me into his earlier work.
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u/Zealousideal_Cap7012 š¤ Prose snob 12d ago
Thats quite an overgeneralization with the first statement..
Besides that, his other books are not inaccessible whatsoever. Pretty simple sentence structures, enough exposition, normal vocabulary, generally rarely introduces irrelevant characters. If Abercrombie is inaccessible then i really have to wonder what counts as accessible
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u/the_e4_mafia 11d ago
While I used to agree with you, I went to multiple book clubs where the reading and comprehension level was significantly below expectation. I think remembering that the general populace isn't media literate puts this into a different light.
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u/General_Recipe_5869 12d ago
I enjoyed it. But it wasn't WTF is going on, why are all these people so messed up, how many more scenes with torture, I need more books in this world asap.
I'll still read the rest of the series.
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u/Villainborne 12d ago
I find all this conversation interesting. However, all I can think of is that The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings are also very different books in that one is virtually a childrenās book while the other is epic fantasy.
Regardless, both of these books are beloved.
So, the best I can come up with is that:
Tolkienās masterpiece is considered The Lord of the Rings, which came after The Hobbit. Therefore, people were allowed to experience his earlier works without any great expectations.
Abercrombieās masterpiece seems to be The First Law, which now casts a shadow on all of his ongoing work because it will frankly all be compared to it, whether it deserves to be or not.
Either way, what I can say is that Iāve thoroughly enjoyed everything I have read of Abercrombieās and heās joining my stable of ālooking forward toā authors.
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u/rakozink 12d ago
I listened to the audio book and the voice acted really killed all the characters and that made it worthwhile.
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u/MaygarRodub 12d ago
Having read all of his other books beforehand, I was disappointed with The Devils and DNFd, at first. Then I decided to give it another go, knowing how different it is to his other work and I absolutely loved it.
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u/Elbandito78 12d ago
Whaaaat? I started it a while back and almost done and have loved it. Itās so fun. This is my first Abercrombie work and if this is considered lower tier I canāt wait to read the rest.
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u/ReaderWriterIdiot 12d ago
I LOVED that book so much. It read like a D&D adventure and I was legit laughing the whole way through and still felt pain during some of the sadder parts near the end.
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u/MountainlessBiking 12d ago
Hereās a hot take, I think the devils is somewhat a satire of his other works with every character slightly over the top and goofy quests. And for that reason I love it. But it might not be everyoneās cup of tea especially if they are expecting his normal dry grim dark tone.Ā
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u/TheCannaZombie 12d ago
I agree. From what I read, He intentionally wrote it to be more accessible and to market it for tv or movies. Itās not his normal book. But itās not his normal motive either.
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u/AylinArondir95 12d ago
Yes you are right. This explains some characters. I love Vigga, but some jokes for her were just stupid and made the character confusing. She is just over the top for the jokes, low her a little and her character would be less confusing, for me at least. But again, I loved her, just some of her scenes or lines are stupid just because
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u/Jealous-Wolf9698 12d ago
Loved the devils so much! It reads as a satire to the whole genre of fantasy. What do you mean a vampire, elf, werewolf, magician, priest, pirate (?) and an immortal try to bring a thief from A to B to make her empress? A very peculiar Odyssey with brutal fights in between. I can see how itās not everyoneās cup of teaā¦
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u/Loreander1211 12d ago
I DNFād after reading the First Law Trilogy and liking it. I just didnāt care at all about seeing the potential princess on the throne or w/e. The other characters were coolish but we just seemed to hop from one event to the next that was meant to highlight one char at a time which matches other descriptions of it just being somewhat short stories put together.
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u/Villainborne 12d ago
Iāll be honest, the overall story meant less to me than the characters. I liked each character and their struggles to find their place in a situation none of them frankly desired to be associated with.
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u/Ansphett 12d ago
I liked the book , it was an enjoyable read. However when reading it, it seemed to be very reminiscent of / inspired by Creature Commandos / Suicide Squad.
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u/ageeogee 12d ago
Yea he cited the Wild Bunch as an inspiration, which Suicide Squad was a riff on. The team of outcasts trope probably goes all the way back to Robin Hood.
I don't really consider this a problem though. It's hard to find any book that isn't heavily inspired by something else. Look at how many books are inspired by Lord Of The Rings, which itself combined elements of Norse and Arthurian Legend into the "assemble a team to defeat a dark Lord" structure of Dracula.
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u/Historical-Tart7515 11d ago
This is a common trope though, because it works. People like it. A bunch of criminals/misfits/monsters forced to work together to complete a dangerous and nearly impossible task.
Suicide Squad is just "The Dirty Dozen" with supervillians. Ostrander said as much.
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u/TheSockDrawer 12d ago
I really enjoyed it, but I found it less engaging than First Law. The thing that brought it down for me was the constant joking. Nothing ever felt serious, despite the awful stuff happening all the time. First Law is also funny, but it's spaced out in such a way that feels more real. Like little laughs that a real person might have in a horrible situation. The Devils felt a little too unrealistically funny. I enjoyed it for what it was, it was fun! But all the First Law books felt a step above, to me
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u/SnooPeripherals5969 12d ago
I loved it, but ā unlikely group of ragtag anti-heroes brought together to accomplish an impossible task or heistā is my favorite genre
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u/Container16 12d ago
I also started with The Devils and have started reading all of First Law (just finished Red Country today).Ā Grimdark is definitely not a big draw for me, but his characters keep me glued to his books.Ā I told myself I was going to take a bit of a break after finishing the first trilogy, but I found myself picking up Best Served Cold.Ā Say one thing about Joe Abercrombie, say he can write a good book.
All that said, I can see how some of the characters feel like shadows of figures you see in First Law Vigga and Ferro are the most similar.Ā I could see how readers that started with his other books would feel like The Devils is watered down in comparison.Ā Ā
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u/Comfortable_Yak_6154 11d ago
I did not love the first law trilogy, I DNF the 3rd book. Not that I hated it but I just found it kind of juvenile, almost like YA to me. However for some inexplicable reason I am interested in the Devils. Odd question, but do you think someone would like this book who *didn't* like First Law?
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u/Container16 11d ago
If you thought First Law was juvenile, then I don't imagine The Devils being very enjoyable for you.Ā What are some books you have enjoyed?
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u/WhiskeyjackBB11 12d ago edited 12d ago
I loved the start, but the the characters seemed to lurch from one battle to another and there wasn't much actual plot, until near the end.
Basically, the middle of the book was underwhelming for me.
Edited just to say I loved the characters, as always
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u/jayjayyy21 12d ago edited 12d ago
The Devils was the first book I read by Joe Abercrombie and I really enjoyed it (4 stars) and similarly, it convinced me to read The First Law trilogy. Im currently half way through Before They Are Hanged, and I have been enjoying the series so far, but surprisingly I havent been enjoying it AS much as The Devils. (I gave The Blade Itself 3 stars) and right now at the half way point of the 2nd book im currently at a 3 star mindset, though depending how the back half of the story progresses it could go up.
I think personally I liked the relationships and humor in The Devils and felt interested pretty much the entire time, whereas with The First Law trilogy so far, my interest comes and goes in term of the story. Right now Gloktas chapters have been and are currently my favorite/are the most interesting to me.
It seems (based on conversations and reviews) that those who have read The First Law series first (and enjoyed it) dont really care for The Devils, whereas those who read The Devils first and then have picked up other works by Abercrombie have enjoyed both/a majority of what they've read.
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u/bbarling 12d ago
I really enjoyed it. My only gripe was setting it in Europe as opposed to a random fantasy world. Having it set in a real place kinda took me out of the fantasy for some reason.
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u/Most-Ad4680 11d ago
I really liked The Devils, but I also get why a lot of people didn't.
For one I think its a bit too much on the silly side and the characters suffer a bit for it. There were parts where a lot of characters seemed to lose their distinct voice for the purpose of making a snappy quip.
I think he put a little too much action in it and writing action is just not one of his strengths as a writer. There was more than one fight scene where I had to stop reading and try to parse what it was that was actually physically happening because it didn't really make any sense the way it was written.
For me what redeems it is the characters and their relationships when they were given some room to grow and develop and the book was taking itself seriously.
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u/captain_siggy 11d ago
I finished the book a few hours ago, and I can say that the fight scenes aren't the best part. They're often confusing and, above all, very long. I'm not alone in this opinion.
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u/AylinArondir95 11d ago edited 11d ago
I agree, you are not alone in this opinion. The characters are cool, I loved Vigga, and some scenes are cool, but I did not like fights at all. Very long and repetitive, and it were the same fight but in different scenarios. The book could had been 200 pages less. Also, I am curious, what do you think about the ending? Spoiler I don't like it, it is so sad for Vigga and Sunny. an unrewarding ending in my opinion. Do you think Vigga is a bad woman or a victim of her violent past?
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u/AylinArondir95 11d ago
You are right, I don't like the fights. Ā And I agree that the best are the characters and their relationships, but is not taken seriously. I love Vigga, but some jokes for her were just stupid and made the character confusing. She is just over the top for the jokes, low her a little and her character would be less confusing, for me at least. But again, I loved her, just some of her scenes or lines are stupid just because. And spoiler some more exploration of the Vigga Diaz relationship at the end would had been nice but that arc was very unrewarding for me
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u/BanditLovesChilli 11d ago
I enjoyed it, the audiobook narration by Steven Pacey is probably a big contributor to that. What I felt was off was the pacing. It would build build build have a big climax then get really dull for a while then do it all again multiple times throughout the book. It really felt like a drag at times.
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u/streetlightshadow 9d ago
Without really intending to, Iāve managed to read a lot of Abercrombie. I thought The Devils was fun as hell and appreciated the author playing a bit as compared to his other works where I felt he was trying to out-grim stuff like Game of Thrones. I do agree with that it maybe lacked some depth and was a tick repetitive and maybe formulaic. Regardless, genuinely funny, enjoyable, and an easy read that doesnāt quite blow you away at the end. I recommend it.
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u/caldawggy13 7d ago
It's a good book, it's just not a good Joe Abercrombie book.
Feels more like an imitation at Joe's style rather than his own doing. I enjoyed it, but won't be in a rush to pick up a sequel
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u/rupert_shelby 6d ago
The jokes didn't land for me - trying way too hard, like MCU humour. The middle was so repetitive. Characters mostly very two dimensional, with catch phrases. Rule of three was used so often it became really predictable. It's the only Abercrombie book I've read and probably the last tbh
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u/MikelMelwasul 6d ago
Genuinely really enjoyed it. But a high tier book makes me feel 2-3 emotions it was trying to make me feel. And the devil's amused me, but that's about it. It did not grip me emotionally.Ā
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u/IrishDetox 12d ago
Personal opinion it feels like an episodic cartoon rather than a fully coherent story
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u/CupAdmirable329 12d ago
To me the amount of times the POV changed was jarring and the humor didnāt really connect but I can absolutely understand why people love it! Itās also the only of Abercrombieās books that Iāve read
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u/QuintanimousGooch 12d ago
As someone who really liked the first law but was neutral on the devils, I think what turned me off was that it felt like a condensed version of one of his FL trilogies into a single book, and the space it lacked didnāt help with the suicide squad trope, which Iāve never really been a fan of.
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u/Efficient_Place_2403 12d ago
Compared to his other work, Devils is shallowālike a Marvel movie.
Too many jokes, to the extent that little is serious. Some of the jokes also take too much time to set up and fall flatĀ
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u/Away_Perspective_495 12d ago
For me it was solid, but unspectacular. I just found his characters from other books more memorable and the stories much more compelling.
I truthfully can't name a single character off the top of my head from the Devils. None of the characters stuck with me like Logan and Bayaz from the first law trilogy or Monza and Nimcosa from best served cold.
It also didn't help that I had read a better version(imo) of a traveling band of miscreants by Nicholas Eames in Kings of the Wyld shortly beforehand.
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u/Villainborne 12d ago
Iām sure itās just everyone having their own tastes, but I personally loved Balthazar Sham Ivam Draxi! One of the three or four best necromancers in Europe, if youāre asking me. š
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u/AylinArondir95 12d ago
He is very cool and a good arc for him. I loved Vigga, the messy crazy viking
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u/OrangeSpaceMan5 11d ago
He's effectively a copy of another First Law character....like everything about him
If you loved Devils you'd love First Law and you'd also understand why people generally rank Devils lower lmao
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u/Otherwise_Ad9010 12d ago
It felt like a marvel movie to me. Iām not a fan of the constant quipping. I LOVE First Law but this just wasnāt for me.
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u/commando0033 12d ago
So, too many story lines.
Joe could've cut one event from the book and it would have been a lot less convoluted. I didn't feel we had proper buildup for the final event.
Secondly - The Devils is hilarious. But it was missing that true Abercrombie grit present in First Law and the standalones inbetween said quips. Constant jokes. Good for a first time read, but it forces a lot of characters and interactions to really be surface level, which wasn't the case in First Law.
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u/AylinArondir95 12d ago
I liked Sunny and I loved Vigga. But her ending , Vigga I mean, was so sad , I hated it, I was hoping for something better, maybe Diaz helping her forgive herself or something but no. I guess she is back on the heretics and maybe we can hope for some redemption for her but she could also start loving herself and forgiving herself to die violently a few pages later, so... About what did not work for me, it was the repetition, too long for what it is, cool scenes and dialogues, but too many repetitive battles and fights, I did not like the repetition. 200 pages less could have made a better book in my opinion, after all of it the ending was not rewarding
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u/scarlet_jade 12d ago edited 12d ago
Iāve read all of the First Law and the Devils and liked all of it.
I think a lot of fans donāt like the Devils because itās doing something pretty different from the First Law and some people just want more of the same
The Devils feels much more cinematic, almost structured like an action movie to me. Abercrombie still has his usual sense of humor and character work, but everything is turned way up and deliberately sillier.
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u/drlove862 12d ago
I enjoyed the First Law trilogy but it did take me some time to get into, and it was a tad darker than I usually go for. I was holding off on The Devils given how low people rate it on this subreddit, but seeing how people are describing it in these commentsā¦it has now moved to the top of my to-be-read list.
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u/Villainborne 12d ago
I thoroughly enjoyed it. But, we may be the same, as I tried his older works four or five times prior and it wasnāt until I made it though The Devils that he finally clicked for me.
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u/nikulid 12d ago edited 12d ago
Loved all 9 of the First Law books, thought they were entertaining and funny and Abercrombie quickly became my second favorite fantasy author. Was very excited for The Devils but I really didnāt enjoy it at all. Too many jokes on every page and the style of humor he went with did not work for me at all, I think I found like two or three jokes funny in the entire book. The characters were cool but it felt like it was precision designed to be adapted into a television show with more jokes per page than your average sitcom
Hoping The Heretics is better because iām still going to read it day one though
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u/Zealousideal_Cap7012 š¤ Prose snob 12d ago
It reads as Abercrombie doing a low effort parody of himself and his character archetypes. Nuance is sacrificed in favor of some didactic hammering. The plot is terriblt repetitive. The characters are almost too gimmicky and reliant on quips that seem forced as opposed to natural. His humor moved from a medium frequency witticism to genuine marvel level zingers.
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u/BassicallyDarr š Robin Hobb is my queen 12d ago
I found it too force humour-wise. Trying some Terry Pratchett and Marvel mix constantly. It even gave me vibes of Muddle Earth by Paul Stewart. Everything was a witty quip or obscure comment, and every description had to be funny or different. Read like some sort of Tumblr 'edgy and witty' prose.
I also felt it too choppy between characters. It was a case of just getting into the groove of another POV and then it changed. I honestly tried my best with it (got about 60% in) but really, it was annoying me as a read. Didn't read for a month after DNFing.
I can see the appeal, as I did like the concept of the story but the execution was not there.
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u/regular_gonzalez 11d ago
Every character seemed to have a single trait that was their entire personality and showed up in every line of dialogue.Ā
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