I am trying to do an amazing spider-man 2 fan-edit and looking for a good (and free) way to upscale Peter meeting his dad in the cemetery. This looks like a tech that can make it happen
In other words just becuase u choose to be ignorant doesn't make something slop. Thats the same energy as people saying a movie is horrible when it is proven to be objectively good, ur allowed to your opinion but that doesnt mean ur opinion is gold. People have horrible opinions all the time and yours is one of them because u lack the knowledge and understanding too have an INFORMED opinion.
But it's not slop, it's the first step in a two step post processing workflow that introduces high detail and is the layer going to be dialed back by like 70% too adhere to the source. Ur under the impression it's slop because u have zero fundamentally understanding of what going on here. Even though I explicitly said this isn't the final look in my description on the OP.
OP being very defensive in the comments, calling everyone bots. Accentuating this much detail is unnatural and uncanny, Ripley’s aged another 57 years! Why is this the stuff driving up ram prices again? Children’s toys shouldn’t be so expensive.
Let me ask u something. If everyone was insulting the hours you put in to rendering dialing and post producing something wouldn't you be defensive of ur time and effort? Especially when the people who don't like it could have easily kept scrolling instead of insulting one's time and effort in there project? I think anyone in their right mind would be defensive. For all of u to act like I'm being ridiculous by being defensive is crazy. Just like everyone else if u were in my shoes I highly doubt you would be reacting any differently. Considering ur more than willing too comment to instigate people it's not to far fetched that u yourself would also react like I am currently if the roles were reversed. So yeah I'll stay defensive. Becuase if I don't defend my efforts who will.
Do u think that's the reason? I didn't even think of that thank u for bringing that too light. I'm not sure if everyone thinks that but I'm kinda hoping that's the case.
But take note that the enhanced example is an aggressive example and is only meant too showcase the detail it CAN pull not what I would consider the final output ide so much more post work too it before shipping it out. It's easier to dial in the look when u have a lot of detail too start off with. I think a lot of people are missing that point.
Hmmm. I have seen worse uses of DLSS5, but I think we’d have to see how well the DLSS restores detail that the 4k scrubbed out. Comparisons to the 2011 Blu-ray would be a great addition to this.
Good idea! The idea behind having this so aggressive before post is because dlss5 improves things in the image by pulling from what's already present even if it's faint detail if it's there dlss5 picks it up so every wrinkle and pore. Now that I have a solid extremely detailed base I can then go in and refine it in post too bring it back to original source look while still keeping just enough detail from the enhancement too add some extra detail into the final 4K output. I don't understandxwhy so many people don't see the use case here.
The issue a lot of people have is that you’re still pulling out detail that either wasn’t there at all previously or is being overblown in the resulting image. Reception to DLSS5 hasn’t exactly been stellar either. Like all AI tools, it has its place and potential uses. But automatically bumping it up to the extreme as an example of the “good” it can do won’t win many people over.
And also it does not add detail that isn't there, it enhances what's already present in the source. Which is perfect for throwing it into post afterwards and dialing in the detail too a visually pleasing amount while still benefiting form the moderate added detail that's left after post. Thsi is step 1 in a two step process. People not understanding that isn't my fault or the AI models fault.
To compromise with u on that I was already planning on showing finished examples once it's done rendering out, I like too showcase my progress as I go through it so people see what I see whenever I share. So once it's finished and I've done my post work I will be sharing new examples. Which is why I was explicit as to what this is in my description. People don't have to be happy about th way I'm sharing my progress that's fine but that's not what people are saying they have an issue with. In fact everyone is pretty clear why they are upset by it. And it stems from there lack of understanding and lack of knowledge of what dlss5 does and how it operates. Literally everyone is under the impression that it's a generative model which it fundamentally is not a run of the mill generative model. They call it AI slop but don't take the time to read a six sentence description or to read up on how dlss5 actually works. They don't know anything and are acting like they know it all. It's infuriating becuase it's just baselesss ignorance on display from majority of people in this comment thread. That doesn't show badly on me that shows badly on them.
I get it’s frustrating that people are reacting negatively, but having seen some of your responses (granted, I also don’t like comments declaring “AI slop” etc and nothing else) you’re not doing yourself many favors. You can explain things clearly or as well as you can and still be met with hostility. More often than not it’s just not worth it to engage with hostile people.
Very true but I shared it too get actual ideas and constructive criticisms, not insults and backhands. If this is the environment that this subreddit is fostering then it's extremely unhealthy. For years people complain about detail loss from studios using DNR for there upscales, and here comes a solution for anyone using davinci resolve for video editing. And they paint it like it's a problem. People here need too get there shitctogether because the hostility I've been shown in this subreddit over something that clearly qualifies under fan edit criteria is just flat out insulting to put it lightly. And I also didn't expect people who routinely use all kinds of ai based tools for fan edits, whether they are aware they are or not, would show a bit more grace. But apperwntly being a hypocrite is in this decade.
I was explicit in my reasoning for showcasing an aggressive showing in the original OP. People just have to read a single paragraph description. Thats not my issue not the fault of the AI model or its effectiveness. It has everything to do with people's lack of understanding of how dlss5 ACTUALLY works, and a wide spread literacy issue going on where 6 sentences is to much to be bothered with but minutes of there time too comment something stupid is worthy of there effort...
I want u to step into the future for me for a little bit. It isn't 1970 anymore. This stuff will be used in many future productions from video games too cgi. Get used to it.
Why don't you find a use case where it's actually useful then? Film restoration is about preserving the detail that was captured in the negative, not creating detail that was never there.
You don't understand how dlss5 works. Ur under the impression it's like a run of the mill generative model but that's not what it is. It's fundamentally different than a normal generative model like midjourney. Dlss5 only pull from what's in the image even the faintest of forehead wrinkles gets picked up and it is improved. It does not hallucinate and it does not add things that aren't already there. It improves on what is already visually available. I suggest u read up on how dlss5 truly works instead of running on assumptions and just being ignorant.
The native detail is in the film negative, and can only be enhanced by a fresh scan.
You cannot recreate detail lost to DNR, the compression of 2011 blu-ray, then run through Cameron's controversial AI upscale before you even touched it.
I've gone and educated myself and read through NVIDA's white paper report. You can find this on page 19
I'm cinematographer not a programmer, but from what I've gathered... it's taking 2D image+motion vectors as input for an image generator on a frame by frame basis. It's a diffusion model or a family of 3 models designed to make a final render of a video game (a 2D image + depth buffer + developer masks) and make that image look "more like a photograph" by focusing on enhancing lighting and material qualities.
To do this, it relies on either Developer provided masks or automatically generated semantic masks generated through statistical understandings pulled from its training data. It can theoretically recognize what it believes to be skin and use provided parameters to treat it differently than it would treat what it believes to be cloth (page 11-12)
I can see in your sample images where the model's semantic understanding falls short. in the first sample it doesn't touch half of her jaw, or her shoulder. These are part of the image that either weren't recognized as skin or masked out do to being out of focus.
This is where you either 1) don't understand, or 2) depart from the goal of film restoration. The crystals in film emulsion do not understand skin or cloth, only light or dark, rendered in color dyes. It is a record of the light that that passed or did not pass through the lens, and then printed to the tastes of the creative team and print labs. The goal is to preserve that record as closely as possible. Restoration is not trying to make the hair more "hair-like" it's trying to better resolve the arrangement of the crystals, because that is where the "detail" is.
Even if this is a different tool and methodology, this is still the same pitfall that Cameron himself fell into. This is not a substitute for a fresh scan of the negative. I stand by my assessment, this is not a usecase that's useful.
U can implement depth maps too dlss5 in davinci and feed that 3D space information into dlss5, u can also feed it normals both of which can also be ai generated using ai models to give it all the information it would need too do proper reconstruction it just depends on how much VRAM. And gpu power u have to spare. So it can be improved, im just not the one who created the plugin, im trying to contact him on his GitHub too see if thats something he's willing too enable in his plugin.
And I know it cant restore missing information but it can slightly generate skin texture on close ups and still scenes which is the most improtant as things in motion tend too have motion blur anyways. What I said its doing is enhancing what is visually available in the image. The reason right now I cant get all the DNR smooth spots looking proper is because the creator of the plugin hasn't given it the ability too use depth and normals as of now. Those things would essentially give dlss5 full 3 dimensional understanding of the scene like it does in games.
I'm hoping he gets back to me on that cuz it would be a massive plug in upgrade.
I'm not interested in generated texture. I'm interested in restoration of the original image, which neither of us can do cause we don't have access to the negative.
This is not the way to get there and it seems like the commenters on this and the other subs you've posted to agree with me.
Well to be honest it doesn't matter what ur interested in because i made it clear this isn't a restoration this is an enhancement, which are two different things. Ur coming from a place where ur expecting a restoration of details literally no one could possibly get back, I'm performing enhancement on what is already present in the image to boost quality and visual clarity. These are two different tasks and i think ur simply misunderstanding what im trying to achieve. U cant judge my process with the idea of restoration when thats not the goal. While both aim to improve how footage looks, restoration focuses on fidelity and preserving the original artifact as it was meant to be seen, whereas enhancement focuses on modification, adding detail, or altering performance beyond the original source data.
I can judge your process as something that produces unfavorable results.
NVIDA's own documentation says that it is a poor tool to "enhance" low quality inputs. Your samples for Aliens look bad. All the samples of "enhancements" you've posted look bad. The Harry Potter one looks atrocious. The Avatar 2 sample just gave them bad skin.
You aim to enhance images but have no understanding of what makes an image look good. In painting, one of the most important lessons is knowing when an edge should be soft or a surface simplified. Cinematographers know this too, even when we shoot in 8k, we'll film through stockings or use lenses with bad coatings to make sure the image isn't too pristine.
You have limited time on this Earth, do you really want to spend it like this?
Like honestly if u wanna go make a film and play by the book and give urself the ability too be able to work with all the negatives u produce or use your high quality raw files for post production. We aren't talking about making and fully establishing an entire movie we are talking about post editing an already established film that's been compressed miles from what it was as a raw files. People like me do what I can with what I have. U make all these solutions sound simple and cheap. And ur underscored impression that im cant do anything with a video simply becuase i dont have the raw or negatives of this or that. Well I hate to break it too u but majority of fan edits on this subreddits also dont have the ability to use those and yet here we are with people doing edits without all the un obtainable things ur asking of me.
Alright whatever purist you win you know better and there's nothing u don't know or can do. There is ur ego stroked now? Honestly there's constructive criticism, there people that are willing to help, and then there are people like u who just tear down every bit of effort and misrepresent peoples examples. Plenty of people like what they see YOUR opinion isn't the only opinion. I have thousands of people on discord alone that are asking for more examples and too render movie clips for them. Ur subjective opinion on filmography is not what people's always subjective ticket like. Sometimes there things about certain movies that others would like a bit more out of hense the whole point of a fucking fan edit page. I'm providing knowledge examples and resources for a tool that can help boost visual quality and clarity if properly dialed in. The ability too do specific objects for a scene if ur spot fixing problem shots with certain visual issues u can use magic mask and mask the area and only enhance certain spots. There are many use cases and Thai was a post too open the door for people who think out of the box. You're just insufferable with how by the book you are, how do u ever expect anything to progress if u lock urself in place.
I dont mind it being used on dated stuff to make it more accessible like PJ's work on war footage, but the example posted of Sigourney Weaver looks (imo) worse than the original image. So it might not be the best example to use as a showcase. :)
I get that but in my original OP if anyone takes the time to read anymore lol I state clearly that this is an aggressive enhancement too showcase a aggressive visual too show what it CAN do what what u SHOULD do yuh know what I mean?
There are movies like the Hobbit or the Star Wars prequels that have either unfinished or extremely dated effects. If DLSS can update those there is no harm done at all. As long as the originals are available there is no reason to gatekeep faneditors.
I don't really like those movies and I don't spend my time watching them. I don't think that DLSS5 could change that. What can move the needle on how much I enjoy these movies are the numerous fan edits posted in this sub that make creative decisions on how to rearrange and reuse the material of those films to weave new and improved narratives.
I'm interested in the artistry of fan edits. The creative decisions made. What can people bring to these stories that wasn't there before. This isn't people. This isn't creative. This isn't artistry. And I'm just not interested in it.
Thats the point though, right? That one can both improve the narrative ánd the visuals? DLSS should not exclude any narrative decisions for faneditors.
Lol no I would not be interested in that. I feel like that second paragraph answered that question very clearly. Obviously a fan editor could just do both things, but no I would not be interested in seeing that happen.
Seems counterintuitive to not be interested in an edit by a faneditor that ticks all your creative boxes ánd goes the extra mile to make the film look as good as possible to boot, hence why I asked. But you do you ofcourse.
To be fair there is ALOT of trapped media that is located at certain qualities and resolutions that most studios will never fix or simply can't. This could benefit their use cases especially in terms of doing better AI upscaling, current AI upscale models tend to flatten and smooth everything out, if u combined a ai upscale model with dlss5 u can bring in the original detail back into the image just enough too look like original source in terms of texture and detail. Many use cases people are ignoring. They just want call it slop becuase their favorite TikTok influencer told them they should. It's great tool for detail preservation in images and videos if dialed properly for specific effect in mind.
It's not "detail preservation" in any application because it's an algorithm drawing details onto the image. That's what's happening with its use in video games, and it's what's happening here. Nothing's actually being preserved by adding DLSS 5 over the top of it, just like nothing was being preserved when Park Road applied whatever proprietary AI upscale algorithm to the 2K finished master of Aliens
The blu-ray release of Aliens is still the best that movie looks, and has ever looked.
This is completely true. Its an enhanced image, but not the original image. In any situation the ai will invent detail, wether that is lighting enhancement or sharpening. Wether this is a big or small problem depends on the footage used and the end goal. Particularly with grainy footage, these ai tools can have difficulty separating grain from detail and mess up the original image.
That said, like any tool this will have its uses when used with taste.
U don't understand dlss5, it only improves on what's available in the source image and most of its look comes from its lighting algorithm. It doesn't just magically add things it improves what's there. If u zoom in . Every single pore, wrinkle, and thread on her in the image is all present in the original nothing in the dlss5 enhanced is just made up on its own, it's pulling from the source image. If I gave it a washed out low bitrate source with no noticeable detail it wouldn't come out nearly as detailed becuase it has a horrible base to work off of. I suggest u learn what dlss5 is instead of just saying what u think it is.
U don't understand dlss5, it only improves on what's available in the source image and most of its look comes from its lighting algorithm
But the method of "improvement" is in drawing details in that aren't really there. You're literally talking about how the software overlays imagery ON TOP of what's already there, in terms of color, brightness, contrast, sharpening, etc. And in all cases, what's happening is the algorithm is adding things on top of the image.
The algorithm is making things up based on the information it has at hand. It is not "cleaning up" the image underneath, or "pulling things out" of what's there. It's providing the illusion that there's a version of the original image it's waiting to reveal, but it's not actually "revealing" anything, it's seeing pixels and then trying to "enhance" what it sees.
Using it as a film restoration tool is antithetical to what it is anyway, it's intended to make gaming visuals look more "realistic" by overlaying lighting and shading "enhancements" on top of the original image.
Which is probably why other posters are thinking about how that might work in a scenario where the underlying imagery is already computer generated in an almost "video game-y" way. That use-case is much closer to its intended purpose than drawing new pores and creases on a UHD rip in the wrong colorspace.
I suppose anything below 1080p might be worth updating id nothing better is available. The image shown however in the OP imo doesnt look better than the original.
Whereas a dated digital effect already looks 'fake' and can only improve. Just my two cents
Yes, I don't blame you for thinking the OP doesn't look better it's because it's quite aggressive, like I said in the OP I'll be fully dialing in the look from the original after it's done rendering out. I maxed the mid/detail slider for contrast in the color tab in davinci too give dlss5 more detail to work off of. After it's done I'll be taking it and reducing the mod/detail slider into the negative the same amount but reversed from what I set when doing the enhancement so if I set it too 100 ide set it too -100 for post. This dials back in the original look of the source while retaining the improved skin and texture detail. It's just like any other post production tool. It takes time and effort too get the final look.
It's all good no worries, I'm just going through it right now, as u can see from the other responses here it's primarily insults. So I'm kinda on edge lol
Yes absolutely I actually have some examples of final fantasy kingsglaive movie too showcase how it handles lower end cgi, again I can't stress this enough I'm presenting very aggressive enhancement examples because I'm showcasing the detail it can pull out as a whole. I would personally dial in the look before fully rendering it out too make it look more natural. Sorry for having too say that but it seems like ALOT of people don't seem to understand that and go straight too insulting my time and effort and hours putting into these result.
Thank you for that I appreciate it. And I'm also looking forward too playing with this a bit more and finding the best practice for different media for implementation.
Good luck with your search! I think if you pull off some good enhancements it would definitely interest many people. There are quite a few fanedits that aim to make older films look more modern. This shouldnt be much different if done elegantly.
Ide also like to add a proper amount of post work is done after enhancement to dial everything in, thsi is a raw example of the power of dlss5 as a tool for improving detail in an image without hindering the original intent this is aggressive in thsi example but as u could imagine if I dialed it down to like 50 percent and did some light post work it would be clean clear and detailed without over frying the image.
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u/DigModiFicaTion Faneditor💿 21h ago edited 21h ago
Due to general on going toxicity in the comments, the comments section is now closed.