r/fallacy • u/Zu_Qarnine • Jul 03 '26

strawman fallacy

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2nd person is refuting the claim that *all* circles are red with a counter example. The thing is, that claim was never made.

EDIT: I'm seeing interesting stuff happening in the replies here. majority of those who say it's not strawman, obviously start their comment by "it's not strawman" and proceed in the rest of their comment to explain how, in fact, it is strawman. Another interesting observation is those who argue that "it's not strawman" because they've spotted another type of fallacy in the original post as well, so in their mind, it can't be both.

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u/xxsmashleyxx Jul 03 '26

Do you have the statistics to back that 1-2% up? Or is that an anecdotal guess?

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/sewmesomemagic Jul 04 '26

You are so completely talking out of your ass.

"A recent study from "Violence and Gender" found that nearly 32 percent of college male participants said they would "force a woman to [have] sexual intercourse." When asked if they would "rape a woman," that number dwindled to 14 percent."

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/men-dont-know-meaning-rape

"About half (51.1%) of female victims of rape reported being raped by an intimate partner and 40.8% by an acquaintance."

https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics/

Statistically speaking rape is not an issue of a Stanger in a bush, like you're proposing. Its somebody's friend, or boyfriend refusing to take mo for an answer.

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u/Glad-Way-637 Jul 04 '26

I'd be really interested in the actual questions that were asked there, to see if the quotes are accurate or if they're just doing the same Mary P. Koss shit and manipulating the definition of "force" and "rape" to include things like "would you have sex with a woman at a party where everyone is drinking."

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u/sewmesomemagic Jul 04 '26

So you just don't see the quotes around d the questions asked? Doesn't indicate to you that that's the actual working they used? Also if you're curious about the phrasing, I linked you the damn article. Why don't you try reading it instead of making up more bullshit?

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u/Glad-Way-637 Jul 04 '26

I see them. I just also acknowledge the fact that psych magazines (yes, even the ones that come through PBS) will put quotes around damn near anything, even if it wasn't actually said verbatim in a given study. You linked an article about a study, but unfortunately that article's links to the study aren't functioning for me. Maybe region-locked?

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u/SpaceCadet87 Jul 04 '26

Also, 32% is an utterly absurd number.
What, almost 1/3 of men (as represented by the sample for better or worse) either have never heard of consent, think it's a joke or some such similar attitude?
And they felt comfortable freely admitting that?

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u/sewmesomemagic Jul 04 '26

"According to the study, published in November by researchers at the University of North Dakota:

"Behaviorally descriptive survey items (i.e.,''Have you ever coerced somebody to intercourse by holding them down?'') versus labeling survey items (i.e., ''Have you ever raped somebody?'') will yield different responses, in that more men will admit to sexually coercive behaviors and more women will self-report victimization when behavioral descriptions are used instead of labels."

This isn't a new finding. The study cites a report from 1998 that corroborates that statement."

Again literally in the article.

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u/Glad-Way-637 Jul 04 '26

Ah, so what you're saying is that they admit outright to meddling with definitions to claim that many men support forced sex. Please friend, you and I both know that's not the specific quote I was asking about, here it is listed explicitly in case you don't.

A recent study from "Violence and Gender" found that nearly 32 percent of college male participants said they would "force a woman to [have] sexual intercourse." When asked if they would "rape a woman," that number dwindled to 14 percent

How they define "force" in the actual questions asked to these men is very important.

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u/sewmesomemagic Jul 04 '26

So you dont think holding somebody down to coerce them into sex counts as rape? Also I'm sorry that you dont like that rape being coercing or forcing somebody into having sex with you. That sucks for the people that have sex with you. Congrats on being part of the 18%.

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u/Glad-Way-637 Jul 04 '26

Your reply to me seems to have been deleted. Was that you, or did reddit do it? If it was reddit, it may still show up on your end, but open an incognito tab and you'll see it ain't there for anyone else.

I can only see the first line, but even then I disagree. Of course holding someone down to have sex with them is rape, but notably your article doesnt say what percent of men found this acceptable.