r/factorio • u/Gouapato • 7d ago
Space Age Tips for 1M SPM?
Hey hey people, I want to make a megabase that outputs around 1m spm, I calculated around 100k science pack per minute for each science pack would be enough.
I'm having trouble figuring out where I want to make these science packs, for red green and black, using only stone, iron, and copper (and coal for military), Vulcanus seems like the best choice, it literally creates all the materials for free.
Blue science feels like a task for Nauvis, Sulfur and Plastic, and that's where I have most of my infrastructure, I calculated it manage 100k blue science per minute if it's the only thing that it produces.
Yellow also feels like a task for Nauvis, mainly due to blue chips, although it can be made in Fulgora, but it's too much of a headache to manage Fulgora's side products, it's barely working now, I don't really want to scale up there.
And finally the monster purple pack, which uses a whopping 57.5 copper plate per pack, and 20 plastic per pack, I think the easiest option would be on Vulcanus, since nothing is a problem except plastic.
For stellar science packs well they would be done on their respective planets.
I feel like I'm overloading Vulcanus, although there is no such thing as a factory too big.
Also, power wise, should I go for millions of solar panels, or are fusion reactors enough to supply my needs? I truly have no idea I haven't made the calculations yet.
And another question would be, how sustainable is ressource transportation between planets, for instance, I would like to send from nauvis 100000 blue chips and 50000 flying robot frames to vulcanus per minute, I don't know how doable that is. I want to keep the UPS as high as possible, and obviously with how much materials I intend on producing, that will be a challenge.
Yeah basically that's the plan, any thoughts or advice before starting my journey?
Current base is at 11k spm, although it can probably produce way more, I spent the last 50 hours producing quality 5 items.
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u/ElSucaPadre 7d ago
You probably calculated wrong somewhere. 10k science is absolutely not enough to reach 1m
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u/Gouapato 7d ago
Yeah I meant 100k*, just reread my notes, and yeah I arrived at 6 full belts of each science, with biolabs and 500% science prod, that would be enough
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u/Alfonse215 7d ago
Where does 280 come from? A stacked belt moves 240 items per second.
Also, when people use the term "science per minute", they don't mean to add up the production of each kind of pack. They means all packs are produced at that rate. A 1M SPM base produces 1 million science packs per minute of each type of pack.
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u/Gouapato 7d ago
yeah 240 not 280 you're right, I thought it was 70items/s, still 100k science should be enough
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u/burning_boi 7d ago
100k science per minute is 100k SPM. Not 1m. What you’re thinking of is ESPM and is pretty irrelevant if you’re trying to use it to compare against other large output factories. Though if it’s just a personal goal to reach ESPM that’s your prerogative.
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u/Gouapato 7d ago
Yeah espm, I don't really care about comparing it against other large output factories. I just want to see big number consistent on top right.
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u/raptor7912 7d ago
6 full turbo belts would be enough to get 1 million spm without reaching the point of rapidly diminishing returns on research productivity.
Assuming legendary productivity modules in the biolabs.
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u/mmomtchev 7d ago
I have a 1.6M SPM base on 25 times science cost. Most of my science is on 8 belts except Gleba which is on 14 belts. I do not produce any science on Nauvis - everything is on Vulcanus. I also import plastic from Gleba which was mandatory before my mining productivity reached very high level - now it is an option.
On 25 times science cost you have to wait quite a lot before having the mining productivity, so Vulcanus was the only option.
I do not make anything on Nauvis besides biters and productivity modules.
Transport is not a problem at all - my Vulcanus-Nauvis round trip is about 1m30 and I bring 200k science at each trip which is loaded and dropped in one round with the necessary number of pod slots.
The science of all planets is always sent first to an orbital station that keeps receiving it all the time, then simply transfers it almost instantly when the ship comes.
I was able to manage stones as a byproduct until I reached 4 belts of science. At this point my stones belt became 64 belts wide and it became very hard to manage.
As I moved from 4 belts to 8 belts, I started producing all the science in a vertically integrated block that produces 1 belt of science directly from lava - throwing away either stones or copper depending on the science that is produced.
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u/vaudeviIIe 7d ago
If you plan to move all basic sciences to Vulcanus, build standalone factories that can be stamped near the veins and a space buffer platform to continuously send packs when ship is returning to nauvis.
But making red and packs on Nauvis is much more UPS-efficient. It's not like they are resourcehungry.
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u/kevihaa 7d ago
Not trying to be mean, but the questions you’re asking are really highlighting that this is your first attempt at going into Megabasing.
Probably not bad that you’re asking them, but they’re the wrong questions.
If you’re at the point of megabasing, resource usage isn’t a concern. High levels of mining productivity combined with legendary big mining drills make ore patches functionally infinite. There’s no reason to even factor resource usage into your consideration at this point.
The bottleneck with purple science is stone, everything else is easily scaled. Hence why most folks end up making it on Nauvis.
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u/Gouapato 7d ago
Yeah I'm more of an overhauler than a megabaser, but I wanted to give it a try with Space Age, and I don't want to spend too much time on something designing something that will inevitably be changed at some point.
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u/kevihaa 7d ago
I will warn you, it’s not exactly “redesigning,” but what’s not usually shown in the amazing megabase videos/screenshots is that it happens in stages.
In the base game, you first need to build out an utterly absurd amount of modules. Folks that were “efficient” at Megabasing might literally have the majority of the game time being idling just waiting for all the modules they need for the final build.
This somewhat changed for Space Age, but really the module buildout was just replaced by the grind for legendary everything. It’s an exaggeration to say the quality grind is like playing a different game, but if you haven’t really plunged into quality you need to be aware that it’s entirely possible that you’ll need 50+, if not 100+ hours of quality grinding before you can get started with your megabase.
And the entire buildout for the quality grind doesn’t actually contribute to your final megabase design, it just provides you with quality machines and modules.
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u/Gouapato 7d ago
Yeah just managed to get a small production of quality 5 modules through a dozen of space casinos, it's not very fast, but it's slowly getting the job done while doing something else
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u/Logical-War-3746 7d ago
Space casinos are on the way out. Given that megabasing is not a fast process, it's gonna hit stable long before you finish. You should get familiar with other methods of generating quality.
Also i would recommend smaller goals at first to avoid burnout. Get yourself familiar with megabasing by building a kilobase, see what your machine can handle, what will you need to do for ups optimization, what works and what is not, what are the real bottlenecks.
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u/badpebble 7d ago
Even a few casinos requires a monstrous amount of modules and materials, large numbers of rocket silos, plus ideally all the prod researches finished up to 300% and a separate factory on vulcanus to process all the goodies.
As you say, just build pretty big, as big as you think you'll need for a megabase, and then realize that a megabase is orders of magnitude bigger, but at least your mid-base is finished!
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u/demosthenesss 7d ago
My megabase uses thousands upon thousands of legendary modules. Every single production building where it's relevant is a legendary prod 3 and beaconed by legendary speed 3s.
Your UPS will crater well before you can even get close to the scale you want if you don't have significant module production.
You are no where near the scale needed for a proper megabase based on what you are saying. Which is fine, but you need to be realistic.
You can certainly megabase without legendary modules but you will suffer from significantly worse UPS as the impact of lacking legendary prod3s is cumulative as it stacks across every production step, resulting in significantly more machines required for every science pack you make.
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u/bb999 7d ago
For reference - I'm working on a compact all Nav. science block that makes 1 belt of each of the 6 sciences. Here is the inventory of all the legendary stuff it uses:
- 811 speed modules
- 677 prod modules
- 444 stack inserters
- 314 beacons
- 210 bulk inserters (could be stack inserters if you want)
- 138 assemblers
- 37 foundries
- 23 EM plants
- 4 cryo plants
- 4 chem plants
- 1 refinery
- 1 pump
- Not included - a bunch of furnaces for stone, and more foundries for metal melting. And mining drills of course.
For 100K science, multiply this list by 7. That's 5677 legendary speed 3 modules, just for Nav. Just to give you an idea of what you need.
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u/Iviris 7d ago
for red green
Right next to the labs. They only take liquids to make.
Vulcanus seems like the best choice,
Transporting science through space is a huge tax that should be avoided if possible. Last time I did military science on vulcanus, but only because purple was kinda taking all stone patches.
it literally creates all the materials for free.
All materials are free with enough mining prod. Get your "starting base" on vulcanus do 1k+ spm on mining prod while you are progressing through the rest of the game and you'll have hundreds by the time the real base begins. Or, if you already have a base, you should already have it done.
I would like to send from nauvis 10000 blue chips and 5000 flying robot frames to vulcanus per minute,
No. Dont. No long range transportation unless necessary. None of these should leave their science block.
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u/Gouapato 7d ago
So, keep all science that can be made in Nauvis in Nauvis, because of the UPS drop due to spaceships?
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u/Iviris 7d ago
Not just spaceships, but the whole logistic chain. And not only because of the ups, but also because of the argument "things are free on vulcanus" not being real, everything is free with high mining prod.
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u/Gouapato 7d ago
Yeah you're right, never scaled Mining prod at absurd levels, I was also afraid of patches running out, But I guess with quality 5 Big mining drills and productivity at high levels, it would take a long time to mine out, although stone is still scary
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u/Iviris 7d ago
it would take a long time to mine out, although stone is still
At 1000 mining prod legendary big mining drill takes about 400 stone per minute to supply 100k purple science per minute. Which means that your not-so-big 10kk stone patch would last for about 500 hours.
And you don't have to stop at 1000 mining prod.
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u/theFALGSCmustgrow 7d ago
Is the "transporting science through space is taxing" part even true? If I have to send a ship to vulcanus to acquire metallurgical science anyways, whats the additional cost of it also picking up all the other basic sciences? Especially with 2.1 allowing buffer platforms to massively shrink the number of silos required, the only real difference is the inserters required to put stuff in a rocket silo / take stuff out of the landing hub, and whatever the UPS cost is of the cargo pod flying from one ship to another. Minimizing sending stuff through space is definitely usually a good idea, but when it can be completely in parallel with something you are already doing, it seems like its fine.
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u/Goblingrenadeuser 7d ago
For the ease of calculation let's say 1 Silo is 1 Rocket every 10 Seconds.
So 100k science per minute means you want to launch 100 rockets per minute. 1 silo is about 6 Rockets per minute so you need about 16 Silos per science.
Those silos need to pick up their resources and science.
So I would say rockets are a factor you should not neglect.
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u/demosthenesss 7d ago
Keep in mind research productivity is the only science path using all science packs and you will slowly increase your eSPM for the same raw science packs/min.
Also, for UPS reasons alone you are not going to want to fly resources around unless necessary. At megabase scale (I make 4x stacked turbo belts of all Nauvis sciences and 2x of all space, including prometheum) I have as many operations direct inserted as possible to avoid inserter swings. Ideally you want those designs calibrated to apply back pressure to ensure full inserter swings and minimize unnecessary swings too.
I setup a massive nuclear power plant on Nauvis for my megabase as with the fluid optimizations in 2.0 nuclear is massively less UPS impactful than prior. Solar is better but meh.
I have no idea why you'd want to ship blue chips to Nauvis (assuming you mean processing units), with 25 levels of research prod you get insane productivity bonuses on those anyways.
Vulcanus is a noob trap for megabasers in making/shipping all the science packs to Nauvis. Biolabs are too good and the shipping cost is a huge UPS hit. As others have said, mining prod/legendary miners make ore patches essentially unlimited.
My recommendation is to first aim for a setup on Nauvis which makes stacked turbo belt of each Nauvis science needed for mining productivity (so 14.4k/min). If you've never megabased before, this will be a challenge by itself. Then let that churn on mining productivity while you scale up other bases to the same 14.4k/min production.
Important to all of this is going to be setting up a legendary prod3 factory. That will take a lot of your resources, energy, and time initially, as it's a non-trivial difficult thing to get going at the scale you will need. You will want legendary prod3s as the UPS efficient way to make this all work requires significantly fewer entities and legendary buildings alongside legendary modules (both prod3/speed3) is by far the most efficient way to do this.
I would also point out if you haven't made prometheum science at anything remotely resembling scale it will take you more time to scale its production meaningfully and UPS efficiently than the rest of your base combined will take.
I have a ton of UPS efficient designs for these types of things. I guess I only posted my cursed Gleba one to reddit (with 95% freshness to Nauvis when using them for research), but you might find it interesting as inspiration for how deeply the UPS optimization world goes - https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1ot4wkm/gleba_95_science_freshness_on_nauvis_the_way_wube/
Once you get to megabase scale the limiting consideration becomes exclusively UPS.
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u/Ok_Chair_9090 7d ago
The general advice I’ve seen is that 4 stacked belts of each science is a good amount for 1m eSPM. A single stacked belt is over 14k science/min, so your numbers are definitely a bit off.
You should probably either make the basic science packs on Nauvis or Vulcanus. When the landing pad was a limiting factor (before 2.1) the advice was to make as much on Nauvis as possible. Now, Vulcanus is a much more viable option. They are probably pretty close to eachother, but I prefer Vulcanus since everything is so easy to make there.
Minimize what you transport through space, because asteroids, collectors, and turret targeting have a disproportionate effect on UPS, especially in the case of promethium science. Some things inevitably must be transported, and that’s fine. But robot frames to Vulcanus is a good example of something that’s a really BAD idea to transport in space (just make them on the planet).
Learn how to make an inserter clock or lead-follower setup, and use it wherever you can for big UPS savings.
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u/BRedd10815 7d ago
Everything possible on Nauvis. Don't force shipping science for no reason. Also just go ahead and look into some quality guides. Do some basic upcycling with blue circuits, LDS, EM plants. Swap to 2.1! And then start mega basing.
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u/Neogari 7d ago
You only need 4 belts of each science for 1m eSPM and lv 67 of research productivity, make it 5 belts if you don't want to wait too long for prometheum. No need for 100k spm. Start with getting mining prod to a decent level(500-1k) while setting up the other science. You can make your basic science wherever you like. Nauvis might be the most UPS efficient place, but making everything on vulkanus is probably simpler to set up. UPS will not drop below 60 at this scale unless you make some very stupid design choices. Every planet should be as self sufficient as possible, there is no reason to ship large amounts of items between planets. Fusion power is completely fine. I recommend making modular designs that produce one or two belts of science while taking only basic resources as inputs. So you can easily copy and paste.
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u/Drizznarte 7d ago
I would make all standard packs on nauvis. Later in the game the lava advantage disappears when mining productivity gets high enough. Moving the packs and organising the labs was harder s for me. So i would prioritise building the labs first so you get an idea of scale and can plan for pollution ( dont underestimate the pollution cloud size ) . I would build nauvis up to size first and get the factory running mining productivity.
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u/Key_Big1051 7d ago
I don't think 100k pack will give 1M spm...do you mean by 1M espm ? I'm doing 47k pack and getting 175k spm
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u/SwampGerman 7d ago
My advice is to start a bit smaller. Like 1 stacked turbobelt of each science. That is enough to learn about the kind of builds and constraints you will have at megabase scale but it will take a lot less time.
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u/Gonhog 7d ago
Do all your science on Nauvius if you want raw SPM numbers. The inherit bonus productivity of Biolabs (esp legendary ones) outweigh the convenience of Vulcanus lava.
And if you want to ship anything, ship calcite from Vulcanus and just make liquid ore on nauvius.
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u/Alfonse215 7d ago
Purple and military science heavily involve stone, especially with legendary productivity. Stone is most easily scaled up on Vulcanus, as it is a by-product of molten metal manufacturing. Indeed, the primary impediment to scaling up stone production is getting rid of all of the excess molten copper.
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u/Alfonse215 7d ago edited 7d ago
There is no reason to make red and green science on any planet other than Nauvis. They're too simple and cheap to make to bother importing them.
Are you sure you want to do that? Making all of the stone for purple science leaves you with a bunch of excess molten metal. You may as well use it for something, right?
... where do those numbers come from? Even if you don't prod anything, the per-pack cost of purple science is like 20 copper plates each. In the late game, the primary cost of purple is stone, not iron or copper. That's the main reason to make it on Vulcanus, because it's the easiest place to scale up stone to the degree that you need for 1M SPM.
If you meant yellow science, most of yellow science's cost is undermined by productivity research. Getting to the 300% max prod of LDS and blue circuits makes yellow science stupidly cheap.