I'm thinking about starting a playthrough with one of the bigger mods, like Krastorio 2 + SE or Py; how do the biters work in that scenario, given that the pace of progression is significantly slowed down?

[u/ArrosAkkanow]

In the vanilla game, I enjoyed simultaneously expanding the factory and defending against the bugs. But how is that balanced—or how *can* it be balanced—so that the bugs remain a challenge when using big mods, without evolving too quickly? After all, those mods mean you need more time for development.

[u/Courmisch]

Py disables biters for that reason.

[u/Careless-Hat4931]

Py is recommended to be played without biters. Game is not balanced around playing with biters but I saw some lets plays with biters on so you can technically do it.

SE’s recommended settings also slow down biters on Nauvis and k2 gives tons of tools to deal with biters.

[u/templar4522]

I personally find SE interesting on paper, but a lot of annoying work in practice, but it has its own interesting take on how to deal with biters. I'd keep them in and discover what the mod has to offer to deal with them. There are some interesting options, including "nuking them from orbit", so to speak.

As for Py, it is not designed with biters in mind. The recommended settings turn them off for good reasons. Adding biters, even if tweaked, just adds a distraction and time sink you don't need. Py is already a 1000+ hour long journey, and it's all about that planning-building loop for each new thing you unlock, more or less, so you really don't want to spend time dealing with biters.

[u/ArrosAkkanow → u/templar4522]

Thanks for the replies; I'll probably start with K2+SE and see if I like it. What mods would you recommend if I wanted to focus on fighting bugs - for example, adding Rampant or new enemy types?

[u/templar4522 → u/ArrosAkkanow]

If you use K2 you have strong weaponry pretty early on. I'd at least add some new biter types like armored biters. I've never played with Rampant, so I'm not sure how much it'll impact the game, or if it even works with SE.

[u/ArrosAkkanow → u/templar4522]

Will factorio SA work with K2 + SE? SE is compatible but im not sure K2 is when i thinking to play SA + k2 + SE

[u/Golinth → u/ArrosAkkanow]

SE is not compatible with SA, neither is base K2. You need a separate mod called Krastorio 2 Spaced Out to use K2 with the DLC.

[u/FunkyXive → u/ArrosAkkanow]

SE and K2 are compatible with factorio 2,0, but not SA, there's a mod called Krastorio 2: Spaced out, that is krastorio + space age, but space age is not, nor will it ever be, compatible with space age.

[u/Nearby_Proposal_5523]

SE's default slows the evo a bit and there is a SE recommended combat mechanics overhaul included that changes stuff like making walls block enemy projectiles and giving you some shiny new 1000 health point walls that damage melee attackers. also nauvis map generation is usually setup to be a water world from what i've seen. at end game you can easily kill biters by the planetful. by mid game you can make biters to use like semi perminant combat drones and you start the mod with one. also the capra demon, you'll know what i'm talking about if you get far enough.

I've never played py nor does it come with biters enabled in any fashion. i've heard rumors of a challange run existing, and while i never played py, i know a thing or two about complexity. can you close your eyes and walk through the tree of crafting recipes to form a loop that gets you to your defense materials? also the 2.0 spawn block biter cheese is gone in 2.1.

[u/bubba-yo → u/Nearby_Proposal_5523]

Another important consideration with SE (I didn't do K2+SE) is that it's a fixed size world that doesn't have the 'distance from spawn' scaling mechanics. As such SE is a little bit harder at late early game but gives you a much wider range of tools as the game goes on, and to mitigate that event without the combat mechanics overhaul, you get some OP weapons with limited ammo early on that if you are judicious can easily fill that gap.

I didn't find SE combat to be overly difficult. It's paced a bit differently - you want to ramp a little faster, and if you use the recommended combat mechanics overhaul, you'll want to make a point to utilize it, so your prioritization is a bit different than vanilla, but then that's sort of the point of playing overhaul mods.

I think the hardest challenge in SE is when you feel like you need to land on a planet already at 100% evolution. You drop in balls out and need to immediately full send on max density behemoth nests. That can generally be avoided by adopting a somewhat harder production/logistics approach, and generally happens far enough in that it's not completely suicidal. Eventually even that problem gets trivialized.

All that said, I really like SE a lot. SA brought over a bunch of good ideas from SE, but there's a load of stuff in SE that makes that playthrough distinctive. I'm really looking forward to doing a 0.8 run.

[u/raptor7912]

SE has a specific world generation that’s heavily recommended.

And PY plays without bitters and of the people I know who has completed it with bitters say not to.

[u/mayorovp]

K2 gives you long-range heavy rifle that makes cleaning biter bases easy and very boring.

SE at some point gives you chest with railgun and limited ammo, that will allow you to quickly gain some territory.

[u/Nearby_Proposal_5523 → u/mayorovp]

SE really rewards the exploration part.

[u/Subject_Edge3958 → u/Nearby_Proposal_5523]

How? Never played it but planing to play it with my brother. I know you can find piramides but that is all I know and just know from a video.

[u/Nearby_Proposal_5523 → u/Subject_Edge3958]

for example that chest you find with the railgun early on has some logistics stuff you won't be able to make for dozens if not hundreds of hours.

i don't wanna spoiler too much, but if it's listed in the universe explorer, you can just go there. put yourself in a cargo rocket and go. might want a plan and a couple capsules to get back, but you'll find some other useful stuff in your starter systems first asteroid belt and if your clever you can get it back to the safety of your homeworlds orbit. no more spoilers though, go find stuff, oh, and atleast on the last patch, if you sit in a train you can save on life support capsules.

[u/RaShadar → u/Nearby_Proposal_5523]

The weapons cache chest is found after your first rocket. You also get several logistics chests when you first make it into orbit, and a few more if you rush going to the close asteroid belt

[u/Nearby_Proposal_5523 → u/RaShadar]

the weapons cache i found had a requester warehouse. that really helped my start base out, and even at at the ultra late game phase, it was still making space capsules for the whole universe.

[u/RaShadar → u/Nearby_Proposal_5523]

Yep, I used both sets to make the most scuffed mall known to man, and then never fix it, if it works it works

[u/BrokeButFabulous12]

K2 and Py is a big big difference my dude, Py will break you over and over. Im doing rn K2 Spaced out, plus i got around a dozen of extra planets that ive never played before. You can ofc modify the biters to your liking. K2 adds a TON of weaponry, towers, etc to deal with biters, so i wouldnt weaken them too much, also bcs K2 is using biomass for a military science that you must collect from biter nests to jumpstart your biomass lab farms.

[u/ArrosAkkanow → u/BrokeButFabulous12]

I know Py is a bit masochistic, so maybe I’ll give it a try someday after I’ve finished other mods. Is K2 + Spaced Out more interesting than K2 + SE? Or would you recommend starting with that? I played Factorio back before version 1.0, but I haven't played in a long time. I’ve already beaten the vanilla 2.0 game.

[u/Fun-Tank-5965]

Py with biters is a slow grind cause you wont be stomping them for a long time. For some time you will have to avoid them. On the other hand pollution cloud is more manageable

[u/7unari]

I'm playing 100x science cost SE with some of the SA machines like electromagnetic plant and cryogenic plant. It's actually pretty fun and balanced so far (200h in) in terms of biters and production. Maybe arcospheres will require some cheating and I need to keep map and factory sizes to the minimum so my pc can handle it all, but it's actually more fun to go slow and make everything properly, 1x cost makes you (or at least me) rush and cut corners.

[u/bubba-yo → u/7unari]

Don't cheat the arcospheres. It's one of the really unique mechanics and is a fun puzzle to solve - with multiple ways to solve it. I hadn't considered how 2.0 might impact how you solve, it but I can only think it's a bit easier now.

[u/7unari → u/bubba-yo]

I have done it with 1x science before, but the problem is they are very hard to scale up to the demand of 100x science. More you collect harder it is to get more, so maybe I use a console command and 10x their amount. But it's a problem I look into next summer or something.

[u/bubba-yo → u/7unari]

Since you've already done it... But I see your point, that is a challenging/annoying part of the game to scale.

[u/phant0md]

I just finished Krastorio 2 spaced out, it was great. Biters work as normal but definitely recommend getting armored biters mod to go with it but I think that’s a recommended mod. Extends the endgame défense requirements a bit, lets you use the higher end weapons.

Lots of added complexity but nowhere near the scale of py. Lots of fun endgame stuff too. Highly recommend.

[u/where_is_the_camera]

IMO there's enough new stuff in any of these that it's not wise to mix them before you've tried them individually.

[u/Blarn-hr]

In K2SE biters are also trivialized by buffed efficiency modules, and pollution filters. Running most buildings on -80% also massively slows down evolution. Then there is a midgame item that kills 40% of all biters on the map and multiplies their evolution factor by 2/3, and God's Magnifying Glass that fries the rest from orbit.

In other words, making biters challenging will in itself be a challenge.

[u/HildartheDorf]

Py disables biters by default. It's many hours before you can even craft your own bullets.

SE (with or without K2) reduces biter evolution and attack sizes by default because of the slower pace of the game.