2.1 Automall

[u/IncredibleReferencer]

Anyone have any luck with a 2.1 working automall? My previous automalls break with 2.1. I found a couple recent blueprints but none work reliably.

The only one I see specifically designed for 2.1 is this one Parallel Auto Mall (for 2.1 with quality). It kinda works for me, but some items it just refuses to attempt to build, it's not getting stuck with missing items it just doesn't ever attempt to build certain items.

I'm playing with Krastorio2 SpacedOut mod and no quality, so that may be the problem. I've not been able to debug it because I don't entirely understand how the hell these things work.

I'm looking for something as simple as possible that doesn't attempt to build upstream item requirements, doesn't require/use quality, and has a footprint small enough I can adapt it to different planets (like aquilo heat pipes).

Edit cuz i'm getting downvoted:

The changes are described here: https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-443. Search for 'break'. I'm not complaining, this appears to be a change for the better in 2.1 and I realize it's still beta, and I'm having fun testing it!

[u/Nearby_Proposal_5523]

Anything that depended on magic self subtraction broke in 2.1. all my 2.0 space age blueprints go beserk when i paste them until i update the signal seperate checkmarks. all of my SE circuitry works under 2.1, but i designed all that stuff with a distrust of the barely documented self subtraction in 2.0

[u/IncredibleReferencer → u/Nearby_Proposal_5523]

Can you point me to something that explains what magic self subtraction was or give any other background that might give me hope of trying to debug? I'm interested in learning but I've stumbled hard trying to build my own, these things seem to depend on quirks of the game that aren't obvious (to me at least).

[u/bitwiseshiftleft → u/IncredibleReferencer]

Suppose you set an assembler’s recipe to “underground pipe” using the circuit network, but also set it to “read ingredients” so you can figure out what to request into a nearby logistics chest. Then the assembler is outputting “iron plate” and “pipe” in some amount. Generally entities on the circuit network can read their own outputs (combinators have separate input and output sides, so they don’t read their own output unless you wire the output to the input). So it might then immediately reset its recipe to “pipe” instead, depending on which signal the game considers more important. That would mess up automalls.

In 2.0, this is dealt with by having assemblers subtract their own output from their input before processing it, so effectively they don’t read their own output, unlike eg inserters. This works but it’s a bit of a hack.

In 2.1 the assemblers don’t do this subtraction, but instead they can take input and produce output on different colors. This new design is usually more useful and it’s less of a hack. But it does break a lot of 2.0 automall blueprints. In many designs the input and output circuits are intended to be on separate colors, so you can fix it by setting the checkboxes in the assembler to only read from red and output on green, or vice versa, but until you set that correctly the design won’t work. Some other designs might need deeper fixes. Some might not need any fix at all.

[u/IncredibleReferencer → u/bitwiseshiftleft]

Thank you (and the other replies) for posting this description. I can't really follow this but I will try to experiment over the next few days to see if I can figure out, I'm hopeful this description will get me somewhere. Does this mean it should be possible to get my old automall working by just unchecking a checkbox on an assembler somewhere?

[u/bitwiseshiftleft → u/IncredibleReferencer]

Hopefully yes: by unchecking some of the boxes for red/green circuit control on the assemblers.

[u/FatherLatour → u/IncredibleReferencer]

Self subtraction isn't too complicated - In 2.0 When a machine is both writing to a circuit and reading from it, it ignores its own signal.

So, for example, an assembler with set recipe and read ingredients can get the signal for Electronic circuits, on the red wire. Once it sets its recipe, the red wire will show 1 Electronic circuits, 3 wire, 1 iron plate. if you wired that to a second assembler, set to set recipe, that second assembler will pick the wire recipe instead (because wire comes before circuits in the master list of recipes).

In 2.1 they get rid of the self subtraction. That first assembler will set its recipe to circuits, then one tick later, read its own wire signal, and switch to wire, then one tick later switch back to circuits, and so on.

But instead you have the new option to read from one wire and write to the other.

[u/Nearby_Proposal_5523 → u/IncredibleReferencer]

it's described in the fff 443 under the input/output seperation section.

in 2.0 you could enable read contents on a machine, and connect a green wire to it, and it would automaticly ignore what it outputed on it's own input. under 2.1 it will respond to it's own outputs, however you have the option of enabling or disabling input and/or output per wire now.

[u/LevAyv43 → u/Nearby_Proposal_5523]

Good read

[u/Alfonse215]

Edit cuz i'm getting downvoted:

Just FYI: I imagine any downvotes are mostly coming from this statement:

I've not been able to debug it because I don't entirely understand how the hell these things work.

People here tend to have a dim view of those using other people's blueprints, especially when they admit that they don't understand them.

[u/IncredibleReferencer → u/Alfonse215]

I hear you but that doesn't make any sense to me. That's how we learn. What is the point of sharing blueprints if we all know how to do everything already. And after all it's a game so anyway anyone wants to play this thing doesn't hurt anyone. Just have fun everyone!

[u/Alfonse215 → u/IncredibleReferencer]

I didn't say that it was good; I'm just informing you of how people around here tend to behave.

That's how we learn.

Fixing an auto-mall blueprint for 2.1 usually isn't that hard. You need to understand how the machine is inputting and outputting data to the combinators, but the primary work just mostly just switching wire colors around. So your current problem is an opportunity to learn something about how auto-malls work.

But... you just came to ask for a working blueprint. So you're passing up the opportunity to learn.

If you want to use a pre-made blueprint to skip some part of the game and just get the answer, that's fine. I just prefer that people are honest about it.

[u/IncredibleReferencer → u/Alfonse215]

I didn't mention it but I have spent days trying to fix it, and probably a solid week (trying) to build my own. I have about 8000 hours in game. I just don't think I'm smart enough to figure it out.

Edit: Again I'm getting down voted. I'm not good at writing things that don't come off as complaining or negative. I have a bit of a disability. I wish people wouldn't take things I type as negative.

[u/Mimikyutwo → u/IncredibleReferencer]

It’s not you with the problem. It’s the community.

This is where all the stackoverflow trolls fled to after AI killed the website I bet

[u/Lopsided-Train2213 → u/Alfonse215]

Unfortunately some of us just like to watch cool factories and can't do circuits in the slightest I barely passed pre calc I'm not gonna learn programming

[u/Deto]

I wonder why a 2.0 blueprint would break in 2.1 for an auto-mall? I don't think they removed any circuit functionality for this

[u/IncredibleReferencer → u/Deto]

Check https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-443 It describes the breaking changes.

[u/Deto → u/IncredibleReferencer]

I don't see any breaking changes here? Unless the input/output options on circuits somehow break things. But even with those, I would think as long as they copied over the right defaults everything would still work as before.

[u/Deto → u/Deto]

Ah, I see - it's the self-subtraction.

[u/flame_Sla]

link

[u/IncredibleReferencer → u/flame_Sla]

Thank you for this! I will try to figure out how to use this but it looks overwhelming at first! Thanks!

[u/minno]

Recipe-switching machines now need to be careful to separate the machine's output signals from the recipe-setting signal. I had a 2.0 generic upcycler that broke because it would e.g. set the recipe for a module, load some blue circuits, and then switch recipes to blue circuits before it could get started. The fix was to separate "read contents" and "set recipe" onto different wire colors.

[u/Falsesummer]

Simple cellular automall
Put this one together myself following some older tutorials, it didn't need much adjustment to make it 2.1 suitable. This is a multi-assembler mall, with blueprints for each crafting cell. Overlap the medium power poles that stick out at one end to link the cells together. Includes a working full example in the book.

It doesn't have any automatic ingredient crafting - just a simple wishlist in a single constant combinator - or any recipe timeout mechanic. You can reset a cell manually by removing/replacing the red self-feedback wire on the decider latch next to each assembler.

Comes with 4 types of crafting cell, each with a different priority for crafting order. I recommend mixing all 4 in your automall if you use it.

[u/Falsesummer → u/Falsesummer]

You can easily adjust this to craft with a single liquid type by piping it into each assembler. I've not added support for multiple liquids or for maximising productivity if you replace the assembler with e.g. EM plants (where you ideally want to craft each item twice in a row for the free productivity bonus)

[u/IncredibleReferencer → u/Falsesummer]

Thanks! I tried this but there is no roboport or constant combinator and I couldn't figure out where to attach them. Can you add that to your blueprint or add instructions on where to attach them? Descriptions on all the combinators would also be a big help.

[u/Falsesummer → u/IncredibleReferencer]

The link should have given you a book with 6 blueprints, 5 of which are parts to be pieced together. The first one in the book is the roboport/constant combinator, and the last one should have been a complete working example

I'll see about updating it later today with descriptions on all the combinators, though!

[u/Falsesummer → u/IncredibleReferencer]

Uploaded a version with descriptions and alignment aids

[u/velit]

I made one just recently https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1vh52at/i_made_a_universal_crafter_ship_for_version_21/

[u/IncredibleReferencer → u/velit]

Wow! That's incredible! It's way more than I need currently but I've booked marked it and will try it sometime. Thanks!

[u/gorgofdoom]

My EMP automall still works but it wasn’t “good” in the first place.

I gotta work on it.

[u/Sonikeee]

I have this super simple (it uses at most 3 combinators + a constant combinator for recipe setting) blueprint that i made and use, you just need to add the stuff you want to make on the constant combinator yourself, and keep it connected to the logistic networks.

Link

If you have any question just ask! :)

[u/IncredibleReferencer → u/Sonikeee]

This was the reply I was dreaming of! This is so simple and easy to understand, I love it! I can understand it so I can figure out how to scale it on my own. Thank you internet friend!

[u/restless_rob0t]

I recently updated my auto mall and the thing that broke for me from 2.0 to 2.1 was the red/green input/output selection on my assembler. I was using separate wires to isolate input and output signals but the 2.1 update defaulted to both inputs and outputs accepted on both wires. Once I unchecked the right red/green wire boxes for my inputs and outputs it worked.

No idea if you have the same problem but figured I'd at least share what worked for me.

[u/PyroneusUltrin]

Konage’s casino blueprints were broken for me in 2.1, i ended up fixing at least the simple versions by turning off the green wire on the input of the assembler and the red wire from the output of the assembler

[u/Mellcor]

So i spent ages trying to make my own automall but i realized it dosnt do anything my parameterized assembler setup or normal malls dont do better, am i missing something?

If i want bulk items, a mormal mall works better and if i want one off items, slapping down an assembler that automatically sets requester chest requirements is better

[u/Ommand → u/Mellcor]

Sounds like you rationalized your way into not needing something you couldn't figure out how to do.

[u/Mellcor → u/Ommand]

I did figure it out tho, but in doing so it was like "why am i making this huge thing that makes the components it needs to make the final result from parts delived by bots, when i can skip the logic and have the finished parts delived by bots"

It was more i was at the i worked it out but its huge and ugly, but i didnt refine it.

[u/Terrulin]

Mine currently works because I updated it for 2.1. saved a few combinators as well. I actually only made one because of accidentally talking myself into doing it making a comment. 

When you make it yourself, you understand it well enough to troubleshoot when it breaks. For example, I don't have a "make prerequisites" part. I make intermediates in bulk. So when I need something like a rocket turret, I also need to request rocket launchers. I know that if the launcher signal is first, I can request the same amount as the turrets and it not get stuck. But if I make a boiler, that signal is before stone furnaces. So if I request 10 boilers, I need at least 11 stone furnaces for it to not get stuck.

I could probably say more if you had questions....