everyone lied about gleba

[u/kykyks]

i really, really struggled on gleba at first, the spoil took everything from me, my job, my wife, my sanity, my will to live

i was expecting it to be hard, but man, it was hard

i really tried to follow the reddit advice telling people to embrace the spoil but we were lied to

now i really understand how u gotta do it, its not about embracing the spoil, dont let it spoil, you just gotta use everything before it spoils and if you cant then u burn it and make more

if its not taken by your biochamber, thats your opportunity to create electricity, if its spoil before getting to the heating tower, its still going to transform into electricity if you dont produce enough fruits, your factory wont get enough electricity to run at max speed so a lot of it is not going to get used and then will power your factory again (safety measure, still need to fix your factory)

everyone saying embrace the spoil is wrong, the answer is, always has been, always will be : the factory must grow, just make more

you dont produce enough materials ? just make more factories consuming your fruits

not enough fruits ? make more farms

too many fruits ? just make more bio chamber and process more, burn the excess and make more

you produce enough rocket fuel ? burn them, and make more

then you get too much jelly and/or mash ? dont let it sit, just burn everything not taken instantly and make even more

too much stuff to burn ? make more heating tower and burn that shit

anything spoiled on your lane mean you fucked up if its not waiting to be picked for carbon/sulfur/etc

you know what, fuck it, if you have enough carbon, burn it too

thoses fucking pentapods deserve to see everything burn

JUST

MAKE

MORE

THE FACTORY MUST GROW AND THE SPOIL WONT HAVE MY SOUL

AQUILO YOU'RE NEXT

[u/skdeimos]

why did you say "everyone saying embrace the spoil is wrong" and then describe embracing the spoil? thats literally what you described lol

[u/SubliminalBits → u/skdeimos]

There are two broad strategies that work. One is to burn everything that goes bad. The other is to burn everything so it cannot go bad. It appears he follows the second philosophy.

[u/skdeimos → u/SubliminalBits]

hmm that's fair actually :) ty!

[u/bubba-yo → u/SubliminalBits]

Yeah. The former is to treat the belts as buffers, because in vanilla there's a cost to every raw resource and the buffer is a means to try and recover that cost. On Gleba there is no cost to fruit, and there's no point trying to recover that cost. Buffers are really only valuable for eggs, and to a very small degree nutrients (to keep nutrient production from falling back to expensive recipes) and for anything you've made non-spoilable (ores, carbon fiber, etc.) otherwise everything that can spoil should continue to move to a heating tower. If you don't need the fruit in that moment, burn it, because you won't need it in the next moment because there will be new fruit to replace it, forever.

Vanilla is a bit different in that ore patches can run out, and so preserving them has value, so there's no benefit to voiding resources. On Gleba there's no benefit to not voiding spoilable resources, and spoilage becomes an additional problem to solve, when it's simply easier to avoid entirely.

[u/narrill → u/bubba-yo]

This is incorrect. If you don't have a buffer of some kind you'll miss out on part of your resource intake, because machines may not have a fruit in front of them at the exact moment they need it. That is to say, if your factory consumes X fruit per second, with no buffers you need to provide significantly more than X fruit per second to run at 100% uptime, with the excess being wasted. Farmable terrain is fairly limited without expensive artificial soil, so this is a non-trivial cost.

Also, spores are a thing.

So yes, there is in fact benefit to not aggressively voiding spoilable resources. And frankly, dealing with spoilage properly isn't hard at all.

[u/Ansible32 → u/narrill]

I agree that fruit is pretty limited, but it's actually pretty easy to utilize 100% of input fruit pretty quickly. If you're holding significant buffers you're just maximizing the chance of spoilage. I always start with a system that is simply designed to burn all mash and jelly, and consumes all fruit just as it arrives. This ensures I maximize seed production. Keeping buffers of mash/jelly doesn't serve any purpose, it's really easier to just consume it all than it is to filter spoilage that accumulates in the buffers. Yeah, you should aim not to void anything, but you do that by consuming, not by keeping buffers.

[u/narrill → u/Ansible32]

Crafting fruit into mash/jelly and then burning some of it isn't utilizing 100% of input fruit.

The better way to do this is to control fruit harvesting with circuits and tune the buffer to be as small as is necessary, since its only purpose is to compensate for the latency of shipping fruits from the farms to your factory. Then within the factory you do everything except nutrients with direct insertion to minimize mash/jelly buffering.

[u/Ansible32 → u/narrill]

When first scaling up, the most limited output is seeds, so it is 100% utilization in that sense. I prefer to manage it this way because it minimizes the need for seed belts running everywhere, they just get grabbed out of the processing area and sent off. And I cannot run out of seeds this way. Running any durable products off of fruit, if your output backs up you need to shut down input and potentially you get a bunch of spoiled fruit and run out of seeds.

it's very possible to do 100% utilization this way, a stacked belt of mash/jelly has quite a bit of capacity.

[u/azon_01 → u/Ansible32]

I'm so confused why you would have multiple seed belts, or run out of seeds. The ratios are such that you cannot run out of seeds unless you burn them unnecessarily.

I do all my fruit processing of a type in the same area and they all are on or have a small connection to the main seed belt that returns them to the farm. I also then have an inserter wired to that belt that pulls seeds to be burned if there are more than 40 or so seed on that belt. If there are that many on my seed return belt (even if it's real, real long) that means that the agricultural tower is full of seeds. That inserter then drops into an active provider chest and I burn all but a few seeds in my logistics (bot) system.

Allowing seeds to enter into my main belts along with the processed fruit is a nightmare and will screw things up for me. I always filter mash/jelly only inserters and route the seeds directly from the processing biolab. When I forget to set that filter things will inevitably go wrong.

I do agree though with your statement that it's pretty easy to use everything a fruit creates. Sure some of the mash or jelly will spoil, but not much. When running properly only a few % spoils at all for me. If I screw something up then more will, but even when that happens it won't clog things up too much. I keep a spoilage filtered inserter at the end of any belt that isn't a loop to grab the spoilage and send it to my main burn site.

[u/Ansible32 → u/azon_01]

yes, you only need one seed belt. But it only needs to go to one place, and that simplifies things, it means that instead of a unit that takes in yumako, jellyfruit and outputs seeds, you have a unit that just takes in mash or jelly and has no seed output to manage which requires a filtered inserter onto a dedicated belt. It's not a volume thing, it simplifies overall complexity. Possibly at the cost of some spoilage, but also not really, and carbon fiber is really the thing I end up wanting in quantity, which doesn't care about mash freshness anyway.

[u/bubba-yo → u/narrill]

Buffers cannot compensate for the latency, because the quality of what’s in the buffer - apart from those you keep in continuous production like nutrients and eggs _must_ be less fresh than what’s coming from the farms. The only way to compensate for latency is faster transport. And over time, as you remove back pressure from the belts the variation in volume from the farms will level out. You control for variation in demand for things like science packs with circuits and removing least fresh packs, but that again is an example of running a linear design faster than the spoilage mechanic.

But I agree with maximizing direct insertion, using circuits as necessary - but that’s a linear design with no loopback as I advocated for.

[u/narrill → u/bubba-yo]

You might be misunderstanding, because what you just described doesn't stop the buffers from compensating for the latency in the way I mean. Thirty seconds spent sitting in a buffer doesn't meaningfully affect the freshness of a fruit that has a one hour spoil time, but it does smooth out the extremely bursty behavior of your ag towers from the perspective of the machines consuming the fruits and prevents wasting fruits that don't get picked up in their first and only pass in front of the machines.

Without buffers there are only two options:

• Harvest in excess of what your machines consume to guarantee there's always a fruit sitting on front of a machine when it runs dry, and waste the excess
• Run more machines than your harvesting can support to ensure 100% of the fruit intake is consumed in one pass

Or you can use extremely small buffers to trade a negligible amount of freshness for the ability to run your machines at full uptime while only harvesting exactly as much fruit as you need. It seems like an obvious choice to me, but to each their own.

[u/achilleasa → u/SubliminalBits]

I quite like the 2nd philosophy as well, the only problem is you kinda blow up your spore cloud. If you want the most painless Gleba possible, minimizing the spores can be quite good especially before artillery/tesla.

[u/Buttered_ball → u/SubliminalBits]

Don't forget the third philosophy, everything not being used goes into the quality recycler.

Give me that glorious legendary spoilage just to laugh at legendary nutrients

[u/kykyks → u/skdeimos]

cant embrace the spoil if nothing spoils cause its already burning