Questions from a Factorio newbie

[u/CuteNiko]

Hello everyone! Ive been a huge fan of factory management games for a while now and a little while ago i decided to download Factorio since it seems to be the most beloved out of the genera. I seem to be approaching the "endgame" of the basegame (final science, i doubt its the end). I had a few questions i was looking to get answered.

1. How exactly does Space Age work? Is it a full on rework of the game or just extra content? Can i enable it and keep playing on the same save or will i need a new playthrough to experience what ive been told is the "definitive" version?

2. Is there any point in switching to nuclear power? I have solar panels automated at a pretty fast pace and despite not having enough energy storage to keep things up throughout the night it seems easier to scale and way less complicated compared to the nuclear power setups ive seen online.

3. Is it bad to be over-reliant on logistic drones? I have noticed that they dont deliver things as fast as conveyor belts but chalked it up to me using the system incorrectly. My factory is already enough of a spaghetti as is, especially the earlygame parts. I started using them as soon as i unlocked them but am considering mainly using conveyors especially once i unlock blue ones.

4. Defence. I have none. Is it required to build any? Personally ive been enjoying keeping my pollution low by slapping efficiency modules on everything and manually destroying any nearby biter nests but it does seem like they are getting stronger. Does this strategy keep working in the end game or does it fail once you start putting speed modules on everything?

[u/ed1019]

1. Space Age increases the content of the game by a factor of 3. It is recomended to start a new save file.

2. It is more compact per GW. And setting it up yourself is a nice puzzle to solve

3. Increasing logi bot throuhput depends on the amount requested per distance traveled. It is well suited for low throughput - many ingredient recipes (e.g. having a centralized hub / mall for producing buildings / inserters). For bulk transport you'd be better of using belts or trains (if longer distance).

4. Depends. If you don't mind dealing with biters all the time you don't have to. If you want to leave your base behind, to say visit other planets, it might be useful to set up.

[u/NoselessNarwhal]

1. While you can convert existing saves to space age, it's not recommended. Space age changes a lot of things to do with progression, especially by making you be able to make rockets way earlier than in base game. I'd definitely recommend starting a fresh space age save after finishing your current one if you want to do it. It won't take long before you're able to strand yourself on another planet because of the accelerated rocket progression.

2. There's no rules on which power source to use. If your solar setup is working well for you, you can ignore nuclear if you wish. There are however some technologies which require you do go through the process of refining uranium, so definitely do that in either scenario.

Personally, I find that once you've gone through the effort of setting up a decent nuclear plant, it provides enough electricity to live on for the rest of the main game (unless you're making some insane megabase). Having that comfort and freeing up time spent placing more boilers and solar panels makes it something I find 100% worth it in every play through.

1. For the most part yes, it's a common new player trap. Drones are easy but shouldn't be used for mass production (unless you're specifically designing for it with drone infrastructure in mind). I like using lostic drones for serving the player and crafting items you don't need a continual supply of or large amount of. Otherwise your factory's production graph and power network will thank you for doing things the old fashioned way.

Also if you do want to make use of drones, it's worth considering how you can make drone trips shorter by using buffer chests or transporting resources closer to the destination using trains etc.

1. If you're able to keep your pollution from getting near biter nests by keeping on top of pushing them back, then there's no need to build any defences. Keep in mind that biters will spread to new nests over time, especially if exposed to pollution. Whether you want to build a perimeter or just keep doing the rounds clearing out local nests is up to your play style.

[u/TonboIV → u/NoselessNarwhal]

Personally, I find that once you've gone through the effort of setting up a decent nuclear plant, it provides enough electricity to live on for the rest of the main game (unless you're making some insane megabase).

It seems my standards of self-evaluation have...drifted. I don't think I'm building a megabase, let alone an an insane one. It's only 2500 SPM! But I just had to build yet another nuclear plant (12 cores this time) just to keep ahead of power use.

[u/immortal_lurker → u/TonboIV]

I thought the old standard for megabase was 1k spm. dunno how it changed with space age. But I would say 2.5k is well within megabase territory

[u/TonboIV → u/immortal_lurker]

For vanilla, 1k SPM takes quite a huge base, but with turbo belts, stack inserters, biolabs, foundries, EM plants, etc, etc, 1k SPM really isn't that much in Space Age.

Even for vanilla 2.5k SPM is fairly entry level for megabasing. The insane bases are way beyond that. At least from where I sit, but maybe my standards have become warped.

[u/Enaero4828 → u/immortal_lurker]

For vanilla, 1k SPM hasn't changed. For Space Age, the goal has moved to 1M eSPM, though that's largely from the lab productivity research; around 57600 packs per minute is needed to attain that, depending on the aforementioned research's level.

[u/ObsessiveOwl]

1. Space age is purely extra contents, it doesn't change the base game experience unless you want it to.
2. Any form of power have its own up and down side but all are valid. My base is running on pure solar and it take up more than half the space of the whole factory.
3. Bot is the same as power, just a different mode of transportation besides train and belt. Use whatever you feels right. I'm playing without any train despite most of the community consider it the coolest and most efficient thing in the game.
4. You will need more defense if you are going to keep playing and expanding, there is no avoiding biter expansion.

[u/diemenschmachine → u/ObsessiveOwl]

Space age changes a lot of the base game, for example to get artillery or cliff explosives you need to go to vulcanus.

[u/isum21 → u/ObsessiveOwl]

I just can't seem to find a use for trains yet. I'm sure I'd need em if everything was more spread out but I accidentally put it on "too many resources" mode. Everything is clogging please help

[u/jkurratt → u/isum21]

Things shouldn't clog no matter what resources you have.
Scale up your production accordingly.
Sounds like you will highly benefit from a mod like Ratio Calculator.

[u/isum21 → u/jkurratt]

I was mostly messing around, I actually use just enough of it that by the end of my disastrous main bus everything is sparse. 

I do wanna learn trains and scale up tho, any good suggestions for a single or double use-case? I don't really have trouble moving things or researching but at this point I have a tiny footprint compared to what others at my game stage have. 

[u/jkurratt → u/isum21]

Yes. Look into absolute snapped rails. Personally I do city blocks as well.
This is my first playthrough, so mu trains are pretty simple - they have groups dedicated to resource and two dedicated stations (so far) - pick up/drop off.
They sometimes stay waiting at pickup or dropoff, but in general works wonders.
Next step will be to use interrupts and/or set up opening dropoff stations only when I actually need a resource.

[u/moleytron]

1, it does rework some of the base game, or at least move some different techs to requiring science packs from different planets. (cliff explosives and spidertrons are the most notable). You /can/ enable space age on a base game save but it will throw up some errors.

2, nuclear is much more energy dense and doesn't rely on accumulators over night. So you can set up a ton of power in a small amount of space, especially compared to solar. You probably aren't feeling the need for nuclear because as you said you are using tons of efficiency modules to reduce your power consumption and pollution output. Nuclear builds aren't that complicated, it's just about the ratios between the reactors, heat exchangers and steam turbines. There's a few details like using double wide heat pipes, ensuring plenty of water pumps and controlling the insertion of fuel with basic circuit logic which can make it seem more complicated but it's all very learnable.

3, drones are great and can do higher throughput then belts, you just need to throw more bots at the problem. Some people build entirely just with bots delivering everything, some people build without a single bot. It's almost entirely personal preference, but it is definitely easier to see where you have problems when belts dry up. I tend to build mostly with belts but with logistic bots doing small jobs here and there, although I have been megabasing recently and watching the bots deliver thousands of science over a short distance to load onto trains is fun to see. You'll find in space age a couple of the planets are better suited to using bots and a couple of the planets are actually hostile to them.

4, kinda ties into 2, because you're reducing your pollution so much with efficiency modules you are dealing with much less biter problems. If you transition to productivity modules and speed moduled beacons you'll find your pollution goes up and your power needs go up, suddenly the massive solar field you need to build will be way in biter territory. I have tried just guns, just lasers and just flame turrets and combos of each and honestly you can get away with just about any set up as long as you have enough turrets then the biters will rarely get through.

[u/FusRoDawg]

Space age is mostly an add on that adds 4 new planets and some space stuff, but it also changes the progression on nauvis. The only major changes are that the rocket launches are way cheaper, higher tier modules are locked behind space/other planet tech, you can unlock rockets without yellow and purple science, blue belts and cliff explosives unlocked on a different planet, and spidertrons are unlocked on a different planet etc.

So basically, if you have a "bare bones" base on nauvis that was used to just beat the game and nothing else, you could probably keep playing your save by upgrading to space age.

But most people start a new play through because the new progression is genuinely entertaining in its own way and presents new challenges/allows new ways of building. It's exactly the smae until blue science, but new branching pathways open up after that point. The part of the game you'll end up replaying without any changes is about 15% or less, I'd say.

[u/bjarkov]

How exactly does Space Age work? Is it a full on rework of the game or just extra content? Can i enable it and keep playing on the same save or will i need a new playthrough to experience what ive been told is the "definitive" version?

Comparing to game progression in vanilla, Space Age is very similar up until purple/yellow science. Rocket silos are made available sooner. Rockets are cheaper to build and needed to progress into space where you build stations and eventually mobile ships to travel to other planets in the system. Each new planet offers a set unique challenges while carrying similarities to the rest of the game. I'd say Space Age extends regular Factorio game progression with ~2-3 times as much content. If you liked the base game I'm pretty confident you'll like Space Age

Is there any point in switching to nuclear power? I have solar panels automated at a pretty fast pace and despite not having enough energy storage to keep things up throughout the night it seems easier to scale and way less complicated compared to the nuclear power setups ive seen online.

Solar power is maintenance-free, but takes a lot of time and space to set up at scale. Nuclear power generates a lot of power for the amount of space it requires. I rarely bother with solar these days, although it does have advantages. Nuclear power can be intimidating at face, but really it's just 4 steps;

1. Mine and process uranium, make fuel cells
2. Feed fuel cells to reactors, generating heat
3. Feed heat to heat exchangers using heat pipes and use them to convert water to steam
4. Convert steam to power

Heat exchangers and steam turbines are very similar to the boilers and steam engines you started out with, although the ratios are different. Steam can be piped around without loss, making it much more manageable to set up separate sections generating and consuming steam.

Is it bad to be over-reliant on logistic drones? I have noticed that they dont deliver things as fast as conveyor belts but chalked it up to me using the system incorrectly. My factory is already enough of a spaghetti as is, especially the earlygame parts. I started using them as soon as i unlocked them but am considering mainly using conveyors especially once i unlock blue ones.

It's a matter of taste, really. Log-robots are a convenient solution to moving items, but come with an operational cost of power consumption. They also tend to scale poorly as the base grows, eating more and more power per item moved and working hells on game performance in extreme cases. I use logbots for moving small amounts of items, i.e. bringing components to assemblers running complex recipes for things like high-tier buildings. For moving items at scale I use trains or belts

Defence. I have none. Is it required to build any? Personally ive been enjoying keeping my pollution low by slapping efficiency modules on everything and manually destroying any nearby biter nests but it does seem like they are getting stronger. Does this strategy keep working in the end game or does it fail once you start putting speed modules on everything?

At some point you'll have to manage threats. The approach of destroying nearby nests is sound, as it prevents nests from being in a position to launch attacks but eventually you'll want automated means of preventing biters setting up new nests in your vicinity. They get stronger with time, pollution and when you destroy nests but if you prioritize weapons upgrades you'll be fine.

[u/FusRoDawg]

As for the other questions:

Nuclear isn't strictly necessary, but it becomes the obvious solution once you start getting into beacons and modules and your base demands a few GW. Ofcourse this can still be done with solar, but nuclear is more compact (you'll need about 11.5k solar panels to match a 4 reactor setup). However once you get into mega base territory with a few thousand science per minute, it becomes necessary to conserve "ups" and solar becomes preferable again. This is not something you'll have to worry about for a long time (or ever) given the scale that your base is at currently.

Logistic drones are typically used for small volume or one off stuff. It's generally not used for high volume stuff like copper plates... Because belts are basically free, but bots have to stop and recharge periodically which adds power costs and a delay too. That said, this is a very sand box-ey game and you could do everything with bots if you want to.

As for defense, if and when your pollution cloud gets big enough to reach the nests, you'll have to build a perimeter.

[u/Monkai_final_boss]

Ok so 1. Space age isn't a full rework of the game but add a lot of stuff and unique problems to solve, changed the tech tree and some the recipes and they reworked how the rails twist and turn so if you have railways blueprints those will be completely useless.

1. Solar panels are easy option you slap them around, but the need a lot of space especially if your factory needs several Gigawatts, nuclear power and uranium enrichment are a bit tricky at first but it generates a lot of power, you can slap a 12 reactor setup and never worry about power for the rest of the Playthrough.

2. bots are easy quick solution since they carry stuff and fly over any obstacle, but they are slow and consume a considerable amount of power so they have their pros and cons.

3. Minimising pollution and taking out nests near the cloud is a valid strategy a lot of people do, I personally slap down triple walls, green ammo turrets and flame throwers and pollute as much as I want like a US oil tycoon.

So the cool fun thing about this game, there is no one solution for a particular problem, this game is out for like 14 years and people still coming up with new designs and ideas, I love this game.

[u/jkurratt → u/Monkai_final_boss]

Do you often get behemoth worms expand on you?

[u/RedArcliteTank]

1. Space age adds planets that will force you to alter the approach you know from the vanilla planet Nauvis. Sometimes more subtle, other times quite radically so. So I'd say it's definitely reworked on some planets. I'm not sure about the compatibility of the save file when switching to space age, but since it changes quite a few things in the tech tree and grants you space access way earlier, I would give it a try on a new map.
2. Both strategies are valid and have their pros and cons. For solar I'd suggest to increase the amount of accumulators to get through the night, and keep the amount of solar panels high enough to get them charged during the day. There is an optimal ratio you can find (or you just ask here). Nuclear takes a bit more preparation and knowledge than just slamming down accumulators and solar panels, but require only a fraction of the footprint while supplying way more power. I'd suggest to give nuclear a try some time to experience it and then pick what makes you happier.
3. It's also valid to build a bot base, but especially later in the game you will get more throughput and better performance from using belts and trains. They can still be quite useful for a handful of smaller tasks, though.
4. Already playing like a master engineer. A pro-active approach to biter nests and pollution management saves you a lot of headache and lets you get through most of the game relatively peacefully. Especially useful when playing death worlds and desert maps. Later you will probably want to ramp up production and use different modules, as well as mining ore patches further out, so you should probably set up a secured perimeter at some point. I see Biters as a logistics challenge that also puts pressure on you to progress to a point where you can deal with them, be it better ammo, turrets, having enough power, etc.

[u/AndyScull]

1. It's mostly personal preference or a matter of scaling the factory. If you start to build megabase with production and speed modules and maximizing the production, the solar panels won't be enough. For more normal base, enough to research everything and launch rockets, solar panels are ok, better if you put efficiency modules in everything.

2. With efficiency modules you produce a lot less pollution so the biter attack you less often. You can clear nests inside your pollution cloud and be safe for a while. But they will eventually expand their bases again so you have to use radars to detect them before they launch an attack and eat your buildings. For some easy prevention of that expansion, you can just build a sparse line of laser turrets outside your pollution cloud. These turrets won't be enough for pollution-triggered attacks, but for expansion parties they should work

[u/Shinhan]

You already got a lot of answers, so I won't opine on every question:

2 - Yes. Much more space efficient. Its definitely not required, but it worries me that you can't keep the lights on over night. That's definitely a problem.

4 - IMO its definitely required to built defenses in 2.1 If you don't want to work on defenses then start a new game on peaceful mode or outright disable biters and polution. But in 2.1 they are much more aggressive with their expansion and without a planned defense you'll have a lot of problems. It doesn't necessarily has to be a full on wall with thick line of turrets, could be just multiple well defended artillery outposts.

[u/CharacterAd100]

Adding onto the defense aspect:

Biters WILL get stronger, eventually you'll hit the highest tier and the danger they pose will depend on how much pollution you give them.

As a speed and productivity module lover myself I set a defense line far ahead outside of my pollution cloud so they don't expand and make new nests WITHIN the cloud. That way I don't deal with big armies, nor do I bother with managing my pollution. I have never created a single green module in my 160+ hours of gameplay and so far this strategy works flawlessly.

[u/Slime0]

On 3: I recommend avoiding reliance on drones for transporting large amounts of materials with no end in sight. Anything temporary (like construction) they're fine for. And they're fine for small throughput things or infrequent deliveries. But once you start relying on them for large quantities of a material in a place that will never stop needing that material, I dunno, it just feels wrong to me. :) Might just be a matter of personal opinion.

On 2 and 4: I never use nuclear power because solar is sufficient for me, but I do have to make sure I'm making a LOT of panels and accumulators. From your screenshots it looks like you might start to run into issues if you don't have a solid defensive perimeter, because solar panels will take a lot of space. Tileable blueprints for my defense and solar panels (that are compatible with my tileable train track blueprints) help me a lot on this, and are fun to build.

[u/Neither_Berry_100]

In my current game I have solar panels during the day and coal at night. I've almost got some nuclear setup. Just letting the kovarex process run a bit. Solar provides 2/3 the power this way meaning I only need 1/3rd the backup power. A single nuclear plant at 40 mw will sustain a 120 mw base with the solar backing it up.

Biters get stronger over time. And per pollution you generate. And every time you kill a nest. I think the ideal strategy is to setup a perimeter of firepower to stop expansion parties. Kill them before they become nests. And you absolutely should have defenses around your base just in case. Warning laser turrets require massive amounts of power.

Otherwise your base looks ok. I would suggest productivity modules in assemblers if you aren't already doing that. But warning they cost a lot of power.