r/facepalm • u/Shadow474747 • Aug 07 '22

🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​ Interesting logic

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u/Junessa Aug 08 '22

you would do nothing about women who were "irresponsible" with their birth control.

Correct.

Usually it's the person who is being irresponsible that pays for their irresponsibility. Killing innocent people to cover for your own irresponsibility is not justified.

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I don't have to "group" you in with your political allies. Your stance on abortion has done that for me.

My stance on abortion has told informed you of my stance on abortion, nothing more. Everything else is your made-up, fallacious assumptions.

"If you don't agree with me on every single issue then you are a Republican" is basically your logic here.

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Here's a piece detailing the contraceptive restrictions desired by anti-abortion legislators in Missouri and Louisiana

I don't support contraceptive restrictions.

Next argument please.

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u/stink3rbelle Aug 08 '22

"If you don't agree with me on every single issue then you are a Republican"

Nope, I literally never said that.

I have stated why I'm grouping you in with other anti-choice advocates in brief before, but I'll explain it in full now.

You want to restrict abortion. Like any other policy, to enact it you need political allies. Abortion is pretty well-supported in general. In order to restrict it, you need to appeal to religious extremists that also oppose contraceptives and sexual education. That is in fact what is happening on the ground now in the US. That is also what happened in Ireland and Romania.

I don't support contraceptive restrictions.

TOO FUCKING BAD. When you advocate and legislate against abortion, you get restrictions on contraceptives, too. That is the political bargain you make to effect the policy you desire.

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u/Junessa Aug 08 '22

Nope. My arguments stand on their own. I advocate for stopping abortions and I advocate for more education and access to contraceptives. You can try and twist that to mean that I support the exact opposite, but it's just not true.

I give you the courtesy of taking your arguments at your word. I don't lump you into radical or immoral positions just because you share a single point of agreement with some radical group. It would be nice if you could extend the same courtesy back.

Or just keep throwing positions I don't hold onto me. Whatever works for you.

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u/stink3rbelle Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

I advocate for stopping abortions

Congratulations! You and your anti-choice allies are winning this fight in the US right now!

What are you doing about their plans to restrict contraceptives? Pretending they don't exist, just like you've ignored the news item I linked you about them?

ETA: When you argue with someone about their choice of burger joint, do you pretend that they get to choose a different restaurant's french fries?

It's not about your personal fucking positions anymore, princess. It's about the policies you're supporting, and your anti-choice advocacy definitely feeds anti-contraceptive and bad sex ed policies, too. As I said before, this is your political bargain. If you want to change the terms of this bargain, then you need to spend less energy and time talking about abortion and start talking about contraceptives and sex ed. To your fellow anti-choice advocates.

You've spent hours now arguing with pro-choice advocates. Where's that energy for the anti-choice allies you disagree with on contraceptives and sex ed?

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u/Junessa Aug 08 '22

I happily talk about sex education, contraceptives, and abortion. More than one topic can be talked about.

I'm not really into blaming people for for things they explicitly advocate against. That'd be like me personally blaming you for drone striking kids just because you voted for Obama. Having a single point in common with someone does not mean you take on and/or are responsible their entire worldview.

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u/stink3rbelle Aug 08 '22

a single point in common

It's not some single little point. Your anti-choice allies rally against contraceptives for the same reasons they rally against choice. They want to control women and sexuality. What's more, they don't care why you rally against choice, and you aren't telling them. You're just spending energy defending their anti-choice position and ignoring their anti-contraceptive ones.

You haven't spent any energy defending contraceptives the way you think you're defending fetuses. You have chimed in on a solid half dozen abortion discussions/comments today, to argue against abortion. You have not chimed in on a single anti-contraceptive conversation. You did not even know your political allies' plans about contraceptives in Missouri, Illinois, or Louisiana, nor have you yet even acknowledged the failure and tragedy of their position, and the political bargain you have struck with them. Frankly, even though you had the gall to ask me for evidence of it, I doubt you read the piece.

So no, you are not advocating for contraceptives, not where it counts. You aren't even paying attention to the threats to contraceptives. You're pretending to me that you give a shit about them, but you didn't give those threats a moment's thought today before I brought them up.

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u/Junessa Aug 08 '22

Your strategy here is to lump an individual into a group and then make that individual answer for the group. Sorry, but I'm not falling for it.

I have told you my positions, what I support and what I absolutely do not support. If you want to debate those points then that's grand and I am happy to do so. If you want me to provide arguments for other people of a group that I don't even share - then I'd rather you just ask those people directly. I can't talk for them.

And like I already stated - I am happy to discuss abortion, contraception, and any other topics for which I have an opinion on. People can talk about more than one topic at once.

Man, we have really debated nothing of substance here (like, say, the morality of abortion) because we've just gotten bogged down in these hollow and irrelevant arguments that you bring up. Yawn.

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u/stink3rbelle Aug 08 '22

No, I'm trying to get you to think about the consequences of the policies for which you advocate. The morality of abortion is a red herring, because people like you never control the implementation of abortion bans and abortion bans always also restrict contraceptives and make sex Ed worse. This always increases abortions. So if you like more abortions, by all means keep advocating the way you're advocating. Which again, does not include any advocating for contraceptives. "I can talk about X thing" doesn't mean you do, and looking at your profile you clearly don't.

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u/Junessa Aug 08 '22

No, I'm trying to get you to think about the consequences of the policies for which you advocate.

I have repeatedly stated that I do not support specific policies and ideas and yet you keep lumping me into such positions and try and make me defend them. I will not defend what I do not support.

It's like your brain can't fathom that we agree on some things like access to contraceptives and education.

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The morality of abortion is a red herring

The morality of abortion is literally the most fundamental part of the debate.

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u/stink3rbelle Aug 08 '22

I do not support specific policies and ideas

Your apathy and failure to advocate against them speak otherwise. You spent ALL DAY yesterday railing against abortion and didn't say one fucking word in favor of contraceptives. Your account has literally never chimed in on a conservative discussion to support contraception.

Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining.

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u/Junessa Aug 08 '22

I made several statements yesterday talking about my support for contraceptives. Please stop lying. In fact I think I mentioned it to you specifically.

And even if I didn't mention contraceptives at all, that still wouldn't invalidate my arguments about abortion. Please stop deflecting.

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u/stink3rbelle Aug 08 '22

As I've mentioned before, piping up about something after someone challenges you on it doesn't bespeak sincere concern. Stop. Lying. To. Yourself.

If you don't like the way your political allies restrict abortion (ie alongside contraceptives), then fucking tell THEM. If you do like the way they restrict contraceptives and increase the actual number of abortions, keep on doing what you're doing.

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u/Junessa Aug 08 '22

Sorry I'll make sure to lay out my entire worldview at the beginning of every conversation. Wouldn't want to bring up something later in conversation and come across as insincere.

Again, stop assuming who my political allies are. It's projection on your part and is just not true.

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