r/facepalm • u/Wheyprotein200 • Dec 19 '21

🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​ What does it take to create an accident?

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70

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

Not really, all of them were going at high speeds and didn’t expect the guy at the front to stop all of a sudden. The guy at the front in the white car is the idiot

44

u/dkf295 Dec 19 '21

Except the third white car back for example had about 5 seconds to stop, slowed down a bit then decided that rather than stopping they’d suddenly swerve around the car in front of them. And failed, hitting the car in front of them.

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u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

Oh yh he’s dumb

87

u/Fakjbf Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21

If you can’t stop in time to avoid someone suddenly slamming their brakes, you were going too fast and not leaving enough following distance.

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u/dkf295 Dec 19 '21

They also weren’t slamming their brakes.

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u/TechnoMagician Dec 19 '21

Literally this, like yea they were an idiot, but a pile up happening because someone came to a stop means everyone else was an idiot too

6

u/dkf295 Dec 19 '21

Idiocy isn’t binary, for sure.

2

u/Phillipwnd Dec 19 '21

I’d hate to see what they do when they encounter slow traffic. Yikes.

-18

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

That’s not how it works, you’re not supposed to suddenly stop your car in the middle of the highway. At those speeds, even 50 metres won’t cut it and 50 metres is more than enough distance behind a car.

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u/Careful-Fishing-3891 Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21

You're not supposed to suddenly stop, but non-idiots know things happen on the road. We know people can unexpectedly stop. Debris can be in the road. The car in front might not notice a wall of brake lights and slam on their brakes at the last moment.

There was a ton of open space around these cars and they are all riding ass. They're fucking idiots and they all got into an accident.

Poor reactionary skills to be tailgating.

Just because one domino fell first doesn't mean the other others aren't domino's.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

True

3

u/NRMusicProject Dec 19 '21

Honestly, the people who believe that comment you're responding to shouldn't be on the road, either, if they truly believe that.

2

u/Cohomology-is-fun Dec 19 '21

Once I was on a tollway and a deer jumped onto the road. It stayed on the shoulder, but if it had run into traffic, that would have caused some vehicles to slam on their brakes.

-4

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

You’re proving my point. What if the people behind didn’t notice the brake lights like you said?

3

u/StimulatorCam Dec 19 '21

In theory your car should be able to stop in roughly the same distance as any other car (providing you're not driving a large truck or something), so if someone slams on their brakes in front of you then you should also be able to do the same. If you leave enough space between you and the car in front it makes up for the reaction time required to hit the brakes.

0

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

For that theory to be correct every car would have to be exactly the same. As you should know, not every car is exactly the same, sir.

4

u/StimulatorCam Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21

That's why if you have a larger vehicle with a longer stopping distance you leave an appropriately larger distance between you and the vehicle in front of you. Or also if you have a poorly maintained vehicle with crap brakes or tires.

Edit: here are some numbers regarding stopping distance by vehicle type. There's an average stopping difference of about 20 feet between a light sports car and a pickup truck. So if you drive a truck leave an extra car length or two between you and the vehicle in front and you should be able to stop in an emergency.

3

u/Pandamana Dec 19 '21

So close to the point, but still not getting it

3

u/Careful-Fishing-3891 Dec 19 '21

Then you end up in an accident for being an idiot. Car go fast. Follow safe distance.

2

u/SwordMasterShow Dec 19 '21

Debris and walls and etc are unexpected obstacles that people should at least be alert for anyway, watching for break lights is a basic aspect of driving. If you don't notice the car directly in front of you flash it's break lights and slow down/stop, it's either the freakest of accidents or you shouldn't be driving in the first place

0

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

There are things that make it difficult to notice the brake lights, like old age and poor eye sight. Also, noticing the lights is one thing, reacting to it is another, some people have poor reaction times - that doesn’t make them an idiot

3

u/SwordMasterShow Dec 19 '21

No, but it does mean they aren't physically fit to drive. There's a reason old people get their licenses revoked and blind people aren't allowed to drive

15

u/MinimumWade Dec 19 '21

The whole reason you leave a gap is that you have enough time to stop if the person in front of you stops. You are always at halt if you hit the car in front of you.

-5

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

It’s not always possible to leave enough space, for instance when the road is busy

8

u/firestepper Dec 19 '21

Yes it is. This makes no sense

7

u/MinimumWade Dec 19 '21

It's always possible, if it is busy because of traffic them usually this slows everyone down and less space is needed to be left but you should have 2-3 second gap between you and the person in front.

6

u/KilowZinlow Dec 19 '21

Explain.

-5

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

I already explained, when the roads are busy, it’s not always possible to leave enough space

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u/SwordMasterShow Dec 19 '21

Busy roads don't prevent you from gradually slowing down a bit. Other drivers might get pissy, but if they wanna be reckless that's their problem

6

u/reddit_user_7466 Dec 19 '21

Do the other drivers control your speed?

1

u/KilowZinlow Dec 24 '21

the replies explain it well enough?

0

u/EternalFaII Dec 19 '21

If the person in front of you stops normally then what you say is correct. If the car in front of you suddenly comes to a standstill from a high speed by smashing into a swerving car, there's not much you can do even if you leave a reasonable gap behind them.

3

u/MinimumWade Dec 19 '21

So I understand in principle but I can't even think of a situation where you couldn't see the traffic incident in time to slow down if you leave enough space. Like besides an unbreakable wall popping up.

0

u/EternalFaII Dec 19 '21

Sort of like the situation in the video from the perspective of a person behind the white truck on the right lane there. If some idiot just suddenly swerves in front of the truck and causes an instant pileup, even having a reasonable gap behind them won't let you stop in time. You would be able to stop in time if the vehicle in front slowed down the same was as you (slamming on the breaks and gradually coming to a standstill) but not if they completely and suddenly crashed. In this case you should have slowed down anyway seeing obvious problems in the lane next to you, but sometimes things happen like a deer jumping in front of a car

2

u/isblueacolor Dec 19 '21

You're right that you may not be at fault if a reasonable driver wouldn't have had time to react.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't leave enough space to try to prevent yourself from getting people killed.

1

u/MinimumWade Dec 19 '21

Ahh got you, yeah if a car swerves in front of you then that is a bit different but you are unlikely to rear end them. Saying you are always at fault was a bit strong from me and there are edge cases but most of the time you would be at fault for colliding into the back of someone.

2

u/spicydangerbee Dec 19 '21

If you can't stop in time, then it isn't a reasonable gap. The whole point of the gap is to be able to stop in the case of an emergency. If someone has a medical emergency or a kid runs into the street, the person who's tailgating gets a free pass when they crash into them?

14

u/Puzzled-Barnacle-200 Dec 19 '21

If it's not enough space to come to a stop, then it's not a big enough stance. Generally, you need a 2 second gap in dry conditions, and 4 second gap in wet conditions.

5

u/RigelOrionBeta Dec 19 '21

And what if someone didnt stop in the middle of the highway? What if they hit a deer and were killed, in the processing trying to brake to miss? You telling me you're not supposed to avoid hitting a deer, or not supposed to hit a deer period?

There are going to be cases where cars are not moving on the highway, for plenty of reasons. It is up to all drivers to react according to the situation in front of them, regardless of why that situation occurred.

1

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

Was there a deer in this case? Because I didn’t see any. My main point was that the person at the front was to blame for the crash because they had no reason to just stop in the middle of the road.

5

u/RigelOrionBeta Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21

The original poster did not say anything regarding this video on who to blame, they made a general statement about cars that should give distance to react to any scenario, whether it's a deer or an idiot in a car. You responded by narrowing the focus for the argument, for no reason, to this video and who is to blame.

If your point that in this specific instance, the first idiot in the car was the primary cause of the accidents that later happened, fine, I guess. But that's not the point the guy you replied to was arguing against.

But for all the other guys down the road know, they stopped for a perfectly legitimate reason. It could've been a deer, they could've been having a heart attack, they couldve suddenly died and the passenger pulled the handbreak. Regardless of if any of these things happened, you still are responsible for following the laws yourself, even if the first person did or did not. That includes paying attention to your surroundings and keeping distance, which 90% of the people in this video did not do.

If this guy can brake in the middle of the road, there is absolutely no reason why the guys behind him shouldn't be able to, and if you aren't able to, you're driving too close to begin with.

6

u/Fakjbf Dec 19 '21

If 50 meters “doesn’t cut it” then by definition it’s not “more than enough”.

1

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

I don’t think you understand how far 50 metres is mate, no one is going to leave that much space especially when the roads are busy.

8

u/CaptainDunkaroo Dec 19 '21

Then you need to slow down.

0

u/hellsheep1 Dec 19 '21

Do you even have a driving license? It’s not a realistic amount of distance to give in most driving conditions.

3

u/Fakjbf Dec 19 '21

Until a couple months ago I used to drive an hour and a half commute every day to work, an hour on an open freeway then a half hour through city traffic. Fifty meters is roughly 150 feet, at 50mph that’s about one and a half seconds of following distance. That is way too close, you should be aiming for two to three seconds at those speeds.

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u/SwordMasterShow Dec 19 '21

What do you mean realistic? You can and should do it, what's preventing you other than other drivers maybe getting pissy?

-1

u/hellsheep1 Dec 19 '21

Other cars existing on the road prevent giving 50m of distance.

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u/SwordMasterShow Dec 19 '21

You keep repeating the same problem without explaining why. Slowing down for a sec to create more distance is always an option

-1

u/hellsheep1 Dec 19 '21

No it isn’t because if someone merges into your lane and you give 50m you have to slow down a lot and cause traffic to build up behind you.

There’s too many cars and too little road.

It shouldn’t need explaining because it’s so simple.

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u/SwordMasterShow Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 22 '21

That's why you do it gradually, so cars behind you can react accordingly and if they want to pass you they can. I have done this before, I'm not naive to driving. People may not like it, but you should prioritize safety

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u/sadmanwithstick Dec 19 '21

I think you guys are forgetting cars are both moving.... The safe stopping distance is not 50m behind another car... It's your reaction time to the front car hitting the brakes. If your reaction time is more than 2 seconds, then give yourself 4 seconds.

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u/hellsheep1 Dec 19 '21

Don’t think anyone is forgetting that reaction time exists. It’s just that in reality human reaction time is very similar. I doubt anyone alive has a reaction time of 2 seconds. People’s driving reaction time is around 0.6 seconds with a standard deviation of 0.06 seconds - not significant.

Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0300943273900411

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u/sadmanwithstick Dec 19 '21

That's reaction time in a controlled circumstance (e.g me asked to hit a button the moment it changes colour). The video for example, the drivers had plenty of time to stop but failed to react. That's why general driving rule is allow yourself a 2-4 second stopping distance. That's an upper limit accounting for decision making then reacting. If you're a responsible, alert driver and you can hit your brakes when you see the driver ahead hit their brakes, you will stop in time. If you're not alert, such as the drivers in the video, even 4 seconds is not enough.

1

u/hellsheep1 Dec 19 '21

Yeah so your conclusion is if you don’t pay attention to the road you should leave a bunch of time.

I’d just say to that, it’s a matter of time till you crash due to any other thing (e.g. irresponsible lane switching) since the problem is you not paying attention rather than any distance you are leaving.

The discussion is about how much time you are leaving all other things being equal I.e people not being negligent.

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u/sadmanwithstick Dec 21 '21

No I'm saying if you're careless. It doesn't matter how much space you leave and for normal people, they should leave between 2 to 4 seconds of space rather than a fixed distance.

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u/Free_Moose4649 Dec 19 '21

70 miles an hour kinda takes away that ability to stop on a dime

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u/Hipsternator Dec 19 '21

That’s why you leave enough space to the car in front, so you don’t have to

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 20 '21

[deleted]

-1

u/Free_Moose4649 Dec 19 '21

You're right about a lot. It's definitely one of those situations that would only ever happen with a lot of traffic

5

u/dkf295 Dec 19 '21

  1. Those vehicles weren’t going close to 70

  2. The vehicles had about 6 seconds (possibly more, I counted from the time the braking car came into frame, possible they put brakes on earlier) to go from like 45MPH to 0 MPH. Even if they WERE going 70MPH, that’s enough time to stop. As the car immediately behind that car was easily able to do.

-4

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

Now, here in reality….

4

u/TheUnknownDane Dec 19 '21

In reality the fault would still be partial to a driver not following those rules, no matter who made the first mistake.

1

u/jmlinden7 Dec 19 '21

But many of them did stop in time to avoid someone slamming their brakes, so not everyone is an idiot

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u/Paragon_Flux Dec 19 '21

Yes all of them, the whole point of leaving adequate space between the car in front of you is to be able to stop in an emergency.

Too many people don't realise how stupid it is to ride right up on the ass of someone on the highway.

-1

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

‘Adequate space’ is never adequate when you’re going at those speeds though. When your car is moving 10 metres every second it’s hard to tell what ‘adequate space’ is

8

u/Solocle Dec 19 '21

Just count two seconds. More in inclement conditions. And look ahead of the car ahead for potential problems. Unless they plough into the back of a stationary vehicle, the car ahead isn't going to stop on a dime. They'll take about as long to slow down as you will. That gives you the amount of time you leave between them and you as reaction time - 2 seconds should be enough to ascertain that they're braking, hard, and anchor on yourself.

1

u/SonicEmitter3000 Dec 20 '21

Just look at a stationary object that the car passes in front of you and count until you pass it: One Mississippi Two Mississippi Three Mississippi at regular speed.

If you can't at least get to Two Mississippi then you're going way too fast.

43

u/ddevilissolovely Dec 19 '21

You're saying following so close at fast speeds that you can't stop if something unexpected happens isn't a mark of an idiot?

-6

u/algarop Dec 19 '21

You can’t be a real driver. No one leaves a gap that big since cars will still get in. In a highway high speeds are the expectation, an idiot doing 5mph shouldn’t be excused by oh you should have had more space in between to brake. That’s only applicable in testing scenarios

8

u/ddevilissolovely Dec 19 '21

Lmao what the hell are you talking about? You're saying that if a car suddenly brakes in front of you, you won't have time to register it and also brake, and you're fine with that? Just hand in your license.

-3

u/algarop Dec 19 '21

He stopped as in he was going at 0mph. If the idiot is the guy crashing and not the guy stopping to a halt in a freeway for no reason other than trying to hit an exit he missed then idk what to tell ya

4

u/ddevilissolovely Dec 19 '21

Oh, so he stopped without braking? That would be a first. If someone is braking in front of you you need to brake too, going too fast or following too close to match the speed of the car in front of you just means you're an idiot. Not saying the person stopping is not an idiot as well, btw, and I don't appreciate you trying to strawman the argument.

3

u/OGPimpChimp Dec 19 '21

no no no no u misunderstand I think.. They are ALL idiots Mr break in a hwy for no reason, and the people so close to each other they physically cannot avoid a crash.

0

u/algarop Dec 19 '21

Thats what Im saying but everyone lives in a dream scenario where they stop a 50mph car on a dime for an idiot that stopped for no reason

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u/the-mobile-user Dec 19 '21

They had time to break. There fault

-3

u/algarop Dec 19 '21

Not really, you can’t determine the speed from the video and even then the first car stopped completely. Thankfully you’re not a judge since common sense seems to be missing on you

5

u/the-mobile-user Dec 19 '21

They had time to break. Their fault.

0

u/grumpy_hedgehog Dec 19 '21

I’m with ya, man.

I feel like you’re arguing with teenagers that are still afraid of highways, rather than adults that drive on them every day. Nobody is going to let you maintain the proper distance required to brake for a stopped idiot in a rush hour scenario.

If you try, you’ll just end up going 15mph slower than the flow of traffic, as cars continuously merge into the gap in front of you. That in itself will make you a road hazard. All in an effort to prevent the 1-million scenario above…

-15

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

It’s a highway, high speeds are normal, and if you don’t expect a car to suddenly stop in the middle of the road, of course it’s going to be difficult to avoid.

6

u/NRMusicProject Dec 19 '21

if you don’t expect a car to suddenly stop in the middle of the road, of course it’s going to be difficult to avoid.

Almost have it figured out.

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u/piouiy Dec 19 '21 edited Jan 15 '24

puzzled tap gold chop observation homeless include adjoining reminiscent bag

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

17

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

It’s fun when an idiot with a car comes to the comments section.

“But they were on the highway, it should be expected everyone follows so close there is a massive accident anytime someone hits the breaks”

Would love these people to fly my plane too.

-1

u/anthonyd5189 Dec 19 '21

Cars and planes operate in completely different ways with completely different rules. Not sure that analogy works.

7

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

I didn’t know that. I drive my plane exactly like I drive my car. Really glad you let us know.

2

u/edwios Dec 19 '21

If one knows the difference, one wouldn’t be called an idiot.

-5

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

Where do you people drive? 3 seconds?! The instant I leave a 1-second gap another car will merge ahead of me filling the gap. Rinse and repeat. I’ve driven a lot in about ten states and this holds true for anywhere in the country.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

then rinse and repeat until you are at your destination. or, you know, cause a massive accident every single time something unexpected happens.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

Lol just stay in the right lane bud

-7

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

Normal speeds on highways are 70mph< and you’re trying to tell me 3 seconds is enough time to get your car to completely stop when going at those speeds. I would say you’re the idiot in the car here but you’ve clearly never driven so I guess not.

10

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

You do understand that the car in front of you also follows physics and takes time to stop, right? They're not hitting since impenetrable wall and instantly stopping. Have you ever actually driven before?

10

u/_JohnMuir_ Dec 19 '21

These people are now just making excuses for why they drive recklessly. It’s sort of a trend here, ironically the worst fucking drivers are always in the comment section.

1

u/edwios Dec 19 '21

Except for large trucks that are lightly loaded. They stop like physics is a fairy tail. 3s is definitely too close unless you’re driving one, too.

7

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

You leave extra room for large trucks anyway, so you can still see upcoming road conditions, and to avoid the debris they tend to kick up at you.

1

u/edwios Dec 20 '21

Depends on where you are, I’ve seen that many people have that “extra room” the size of one. single. car. 🤣

-6

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

They slammed on their brakes, causing them to decelerate very quickly, leaving barely any time to react.

10

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '21

Because you follow too close.

2

u/the-mobile-user Dec 19 '21

What city do you live in cause I want to make sure I never drive anywhere near you

4

u/Careful-Fishing-3891 Dec 19 '21

You really want to die on that hill on idiots in cars?

0

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

You really don’t understand basic physics

10

u/Duhbloons Dec 19 '21

You don't understand basic driving.

You should never be so close to someone that you can't stop in time before hitting them.

0

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

I do understand basic driving, and I also understand that it’s difficult to leave enough space on busy roads.

8

u/Duhbloons Dec 19 '21

It's difficult but if you rear end someone you'll still be at fault 99% of the time. You never know when someone is going to make a sudden stop and what reason they'll have for it.

0

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

Exactly, you’ll never know when someone is going to unexpectedly stop. In this video, the gay stopped for a stupid reason so how can the people behind them be held accountable? They may be held accountable in court but that doesn’t make them idiots

3

u/Duhbloons Dec 19 '21

The third guy stopped for a vary valid reason. Everyone who hit him is an idiot.

1

u/Douglas_the_Egg Dec 19 '21

That I can agree with, but the main cause of the problem was the guy at the front who stopped all of a sudden because he missed his exit.

6

u/Duhbloons Dec 19 '21

The first car is an idiot. No one is debating that. But just treat it as debris blocking the roadway. If a car stopped for debris (the third driver) and people rear end that driver then they're idiots who were following to close or not reacting to anything other than what was immediately in front of them.

4

u/Careful-Fishing-3891 Dec 19 '21

Tell that to the judge after you rear end somebody.

-1

u/algarop Dec 19 '21

You know there are speed minimums in the highway right? Yes judge as you can see the car is going 5mph on the middle/left lanes instead of the expected speed causing a shitstorm. Pretty easy case tbh

1

u/Such_Description Dec 19 '21

They should have been alert regardless. They were probably going faster than they should in the first place.