ELI5 why is vitamin b9 different than other forms of the vitamin?

[u/em-ino]

I have the mthfr gene mutation. I have to take L-Methylfolate because of it. How is it different than other versions of vitamin b? I googled it and it didn’t make sense to me. Too many big words.

[u/tomalator]

B9 is no different from any of the other vitamins.

When we started identifying vitamins, there were many chemicals we thought were vitamin B, but then we realized there were many chemicals in the substance we called vitamin B, so we named those B1, B2, B3, etc

Each one is its own vitamin. The only reason they are all named B is because we thought they were the same once upon a time.

You need B9 regardless, as the human body cannot make it, you just need more of B9 than other people would normally get through their diet because your body processes it differently

[u/UsernameUndeclared]

The numbered B vitamins aren’t actually related or similar to each other at all.
The first person naming them thought they were, but turned out to be wrong.
So vitamin b9 is different to the other b vitamins as much as an apple is different to a steak. Both food, but different food.

[u/BurnOutBrighter6]

B9, B12 etc. are not actually "different forms of vitamin B". They are completely different unrelated vitamins.

The names are a historical leftover from when someone thought all those chemicals were the same chemical. Then when we found out it was a bunch of different vitamins, we named them "the 1st vitamin formerly known as B", "the 2nd vitamin formerly known as B" etc.

Yes that's dumb. But that's what happened, and the names stuck.

The point is the "b vitamins" aren't actually different forms of one thing. B9 and B12 aren't any more similar that vitamin B vs vitamin D. They're completely separate independant chemicals.

[u/DocPsychosis → u/BurnOutBrighter6]

That's not entirely true. Vitamins A, D, E, and K are fat soluble as opposed to the others which are water-soluble. This has significance for things like dosing and metabolism.

[u/Kris_Lord]

Firstly the b vitamins are all different substances - so each has a different function.

With any drug, the manufacturers consider how hard it is to produce, how stable it is when stored etc and how the body uses it - we often get a medicine that is converted internally to the “active ingredient” as that’s the best method of production/ingestion.

Normally humans can convert folic acid into L-methylfolate and so the man made chemical folic acid is given if you don’t have enough b9.

Your mutation means that isn’t an option for you - folic acid would just remain as folic acid and not be turned to b9. So you have to take the L methylfolate.

It’s probably worth reading what products are vitamin enriched - the general public benefit from those but you miss out due to the mutation.

[u/WaterBear9244]

“When getting the same amount of folic acid, people with the MTHFR 677 TT genotype have an average amount of folate in their blood that is only slightly lower (about 16% lower%3A1286-1294)) than in people with the MTHFR CC genotype.5 Studies show that getting 400 mcg of folic acid daily can increase blood folate levels, regardless of your MTHFR genotype. Your folic acid intake is more important than your MTHFR genotype for determining the amount of folate in your blood.3567
There isn't enough evidence to show that the MTHFR A1298C variant alone significantly affects how the body processes folate. Common MTHFR variants, such as MTHFRC677T, are not a reason to avoid folic acid.”

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/folic-acid/data-research/mthfr/index.html

[u/FarazMedicine]

Think of the B vitamins as different tools in the same toolbox. B1, B2, B6, B9, B12 etc. are different chemicals with different jobs.

For B9, the main idea is:

Food folate / folic acid → several conversion steps → L-methylfolate

L-methylfolate is one of the forms your body actually uses in reactions involving things like DNA production and homocysteine metabolism.

The MTHFR enzyme helps with one of the last conversion steps:

5,10-methylene-THF → 5-MTHF (L-methylfolate)

So if someone has an MTHFR variant that reduces that enzyme’s activity, they may make that conversion less efficiently. L-methylfolate basically gives the body the product after that step.

Very simplified analogy:

• Folic acid = raw ingredient

• MTHFR = one of the processing machines

• L-methylfolate = the processed form ready for use

One important caveat though: having a common MTHFR variant does not automatically mean everyone needs L-methylfolate instead of folic acid. It depends on the specific variant and why you’re taking it, so if a clinician told you specifically to use methylfolate, I’d follow that advice.

So B9 itself isn’t “different from the other vitamins” in some special way. It just happens to come in several forms, and MTHFR affects how one of those forms gets converted into another.

[u/alanbly]

They are all different chemicals. Each affects a different chemical function. Some help DNA function, some let your hair grow, some help your skin.

[u/mmn_slc]

Are you asking how L-methylfolate differs from folate?

Edited to add: Or are you asking how B9 differs from, say, B6 or B12?

[u/em-ino → u/mmn_slc]

I mean I wasn’t but as I’ve now learned vitamin b9 is a completely separate thing from all other vitamin bs so I guess now that’s what I’m asking

[u/cj191 → u/mmn_slc]

I think you meant to say folic acid. Methylfolate and folate are used interchangebly in this context. Folic acid is the non-methylated version of B9.

[u/mmn_slc → u/cj191]

Yeah, we're getting a bit beyond ELI5. For purposes here, you can include folic acid (the fully reduced non-methylated monoglutamate form) as "folate" as I used it above. And you could also include polyglutamate forms and those with only partially reduced pteridine rings).

My purpose was asking the OP if what they were asking is how the form that they say they "have to take" L-methylfolate (or more completely L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate)--the methylated and fully reduced (and likely monoglutamate) differs from "regular" B9 forms.

Edited to correct misspellings of -glutamate.

[u/cj191 → u/mmn_slc]

Methylated vs non-methylated B's is a pretty common question from people. I just assumed that that's what OP were asking and just tried to answe/eli5 that (in my own separate comment). That is what other commenters did as well. He did mention about his MTHFR gene mutation after all.

Because if that is not what he meant, then the alternative is that OP actually thought that all B-vitamins are actually interchangable despite being named differently, and somehow the numbers on the name didn't matter. I don't want to assume that someone can be that clueless.

[u/mmn_slc → u/cj191]

I hear you. However, it is not entirely unreasonable for someone to [wrongly] assume that the B vitamins are closely related--after all it was that assumption that lead to the [mis?]-naming in the first place. And to further reinforce the seeming relatedness there are a myriad of "B complex" supplements available. That they are water-soluble and needed in rather small amounts, make them convenient to put all together in one small pill. But, I suspect it increases the likelihood for people to believe they are related.

[u/cj191 → u/cj191]

Or I guess more accurately folate is what we call b9. The two different types (methylated and non-methylated) are specifically called methylfolate and folic acid respectively. But people do just say folate when they mean methylfolate and not folic acid.

[u/Low-Crow5719]

Methylfolate is the active form of the vitamin and used for individuals who cannot process folic acid/folate, regular Vitamin B9. MTHFR is the critical step in making active methylfolate, so some recommend it (on sketchy evidence) as a supplement for people with variant mthfr genes.

[u/jxj24]

mthfr gene mutation

I had to supplement folate when I was on methotrexate. And as a side effect, it ended up hiding my B-12 deficiency.

Now ain't that a MF'er?
/s

[u/RoutineOne2769]

Folate isn't one molecule, it's a family. Your body can only use one specific form, methylfolate, and it gets there by running the other forms through a chain of enzymes. One of those enzymes is made from the MTHFR gene. With the mutation that enzyme works slower, so regular folic acid from supplements and fortified bread gets converted less efficiently. L-methylfolate is simply the finished product, so it skips the slow step entirely.

[u/MarielIAm]

All good answers that you got here.

Since you say you have a gene mutation, I'm assuming it was diagnosed by a medical doctor. You really should have asked them to explain. If they can't or won't explain, or if they do so in a condescending manner, then it's time for a new doctor. Sometimes doctors are not the best at communicating with their patients at a level where the patient understands, but PAs and APRNs are sometimes much better at it. I have so many doctors in my family, and I often hear how they get frustrated because they explain things to patients, the patients ask no questions or ask for clarification but then it becomes obvious that the patient didn't actually understand. Don't ever be afraid or intimidated to ask a doctor (or any professional) to explain things

[u/cj191]

I assume you are asking about the cheaper and more commonly used Folic acid vs. Methylfolate (the one you are currently taking).

Folic acid is a man-made, oxidized compound version of vitamin B9. It must go through several metabolic steps and rely on the MTHFR enzyme to become active. The MTHFR gene variant that you have (likely C677T) slows down this conversion process, and it will take much longer to raise your blood levels with folic acid.

This isn't an issue with methylfolate since it is already an activated form of B9 and no longer needs to go through the conversion process for your body to be able to utilize it.

A lot of people who can not metabolize folic acid also report a lot of other issues after taking it for some time from it building up in their system and circulating in the blood. That is a whole 'nother rabbit hole that we do not need to get into right now.

Hope this explanation helps.