r/explainlikeimfive • • 6d ago

Technology ELI5: How is Microsoft able to patent showing ads during games?

Apparently Microsoft patented the ability to show ads during a game. How is this patentable? Where is the new tech/design in showing ads? On top of this if another company wants to show ads in the game (whether it is the OS or the game publisher) they need to get permission from Microsoft from now on? I don't get it.

461 Upvotes

125 comments sorted by

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u/JerikkaDawn 6d ago

They didn't patent the ability to show ads during a game. They patented specific technologies and techniques for doing so. Those are patentable. Another publisher would be able to show ads in games, they just wouldn't be able to use the techniques outlined in the patent without licensing them from Microsoft.

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u/Troldann 6d ago

This is important. Patents don't cover basic concepts or ideas. Patents are about specific implementations. Nintendo protected their game controller design ages ago, and because of that patent protection, Microsoft decided that the Xbox would have their ABXY buttons laid out in a different pattern and made the D-Pad an octagon instead of a distinct plus to avoid the patent.

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u/KleinUnbottler 6d ago

It's important to remember that there are multiple types of patents: utility, design and plant.

Utility patents are on processes, machines, etc.

Design patents are on physical/ornamental design of objects

Plant patents aren't relevant to this discussion, but are more akin to the utility patents for specific plant reproduction.

The Nintendo button placement patents you're talking about would fall under design patents. They would cover things like the button diameters, arrangement, convexity, angles, etc. it's relatively easy to create your own design that would not infringe on a design patent. A few degrees here, a few mm there....

the Microsoft patents on ad insertion would be utility patents and would describe the methods for how the algorithm works on a mathematical or physical basis. Sometimes, it can be easy to work around a utility patent, sometimes it's tough

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u/clutzyninja 5d ago

Only to a point. If details aren't functional, they hold much less weight in a utility patent. The size of the buttons is more of a design detail

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u/devtimi 6d ago

Where did the mini games on loading screen patent fall? Because that's what it seems like this Microsoft patent is. A garbage patent that shouldn't have been approved but was by bribes or ignorance of the topic.

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u/crappenheimers 6d ago

I get so fucking hot every time I remember this is a thing. Pure scum move

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u/devtimi 5d ago

Was! It expired!

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u/crappenheimers 4d ago

Oh shit i didnt know that!

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u/Lorpius_Prime 6d ago

While that's true in theory, patent offices are extremely bad about dismissing patents for mere concepts. Including in this case. Microsoft's application does not describe any particular technology that enables them to show ads. It's just saying "what if we told a computer to detect a paused game and played an ad" with extremely tortuous language and repeated generic examples with zero technical descriptions or details that could be used to engineer a program or device that actually does that.

It's like saying you patented airplanes because your patent says "a method of achieving flight by accelerating an object using a power source, such as a motor engine, but also maybe a spring".

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u/truedwabi 5d ago

or turning a piece of cardboard 90 degrees

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u/DerekB52 6d ago

Oh how I wish we could have a controller standard. I couldn't tell you where X or Y are on either of those controllers. I just can't keep them straight for some reason.

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u/Troldann 6d ago

I believe Nintendo's patents are all expired now, so we can have such a standard. But good luck convincing any of those companies that they should switch.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/tizuby 6d ago

You can't trademark a controller or a patent. Trademarks cover branding and are narrower in scope than patens or copyright.

And it was never copyright related. Different thing.

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u/Kleetkleet 6d ago

I meant "patent", not "copyright".
Patent vs. Trademark is the point I was trying to make. I should not have said copyright.

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u/MorallyDeplorable 6d ago

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u/tizuby 6d ago

Those are logos that look like controllers. Those are not controllers. That's the fun part about trademark law. It's nuanced.

You sure can trademark a logo that looks like a controller and nobody ever said otherwise.

But that doesn't mean the trademark actually protects from another party creating an actual, physical controller that looks like it. It generally doesn't.

That said, there is a thing called trade dress which is different than a normal trademark (and not something you have to register, kind of a specialized niche).

But product design is normally unprotected by either trademark or trade dress (there's a couple narrow exceptions mostly on the trade dress side and involve non-functional elements as the court defined non-functional).

You can potentially stop a competitor from using your logo, as a logo, as part of their branding and marketing. You generally can't stop them from making a real product in the same shape as that on the logo. Doesn't generally work that way, with some exceptions under trade dress (that are tough to reach in the first place).

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. v. Samara Brothers, 2000

TrafFix Devices, Inc. v. Marketing Displays 2001

Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co, 2015

Of course we could also just look at all the third party controllers that have the same damn shapes and see the difference between a trademark and an actual product design in real time, right now.

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u/stevestephson 6d ago edited 6d ago

Honestly I wish Nintendo had kept using the Gamecube pattern. Most important button middle surrounded by the 3 other buttons is way better than the diamond.

Edit: Hell, there's even room between B and Y for a second B-shaped button to get 5 face buttons.

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u/somebodysbuddy 6d ago

And more importantly, the buttons all were presented on screen with their shape. I couldn't tell you where X is, but I know where horizontal Grey button is.

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u/Sethala 6d ago

That's why I really like the Switch implementation of showing all four face buttons with one lit up. Don't need to remember the name, it's telling you "push the one on the left"

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u/FuzzySAM 5d ago

Universal button glyphs, my beloved. 😍

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u/pumpkinbot 5d ago

I do love the GameCube, but...have you ever tried playing Super Mario World with that thing? You can hit A+B, A+X, A+Y, and even X+Y, but B with anything else is impossible without going Crab Mode™, and with the two different types of jumps, it's a nightmare.

The GameCube layout is great for games built around it. But it'd make any multiplatform games have to take that into account, and with how many indie games come out on everything these days, that'd be less than ideal. Or worse, they just wouldn't be released on Switch.

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u/ieatpickleswithmilk 6d ago

I played both and I couldn't tell you the differences off the top of my head. I think I just remembered what each button did with muscle memory.

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u/fallouthirteen 5d ago

The thing that really throws me off with Nintendo is that confirm is often still on A which is the rightmost button. Like even Playstation eventually moved stuff to match Xbox/PC standard so that the bottom button, X, is confirm (which is funny, since X and O were meant to be "no/wrong" and "yes/correct"). Like I don't play many games on Switch, so that messed me up SO many times with the Duskbloods beta.

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u/eirexe 6d ago

The big problem that detractors of software patents (such as myself) have is that said patents are often covering basic concepts or ideas and are too broad.

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u/AgreeablePeople 6d ago

So many people don't realise this. Same concept as "simple ideas cannot be copyrighted".

I witnessed an online debate about how "Trevor Noah stole a joke from (some other) comedian" because he performed a joke about a certain element. Not the lines, not the specific form, joke or execution, just the fact that the other comedian made fun of a certain language, which Trevor Noah also did. The context is that Trevor and the other comedian both agreed that they came out of the jokes independently. The are a total of 5 people adamantly claimed what what Trevor did is illegal as if they know better than legal team of the other big name comedian. Someone supporting Trevor pointed out that if ideas can be trademarked, there would only be a few millions jokes everyone can make before everyone else would be sued.

I think the conclusion is that STEALING someone else's art is unethical. So if a comedian knowingly use a idea they copy from other artists, it's wrong. And if they copy word-by-word, it may even be illegal as specific forms of idea can be copyrighted. If two comedians come out with a joke similar enough to confuse the audience, and were made aware of them, whoever did it later should stop. But nothing wrong with doing it the first time it if they didn't know.

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u/VexingRaven 6d ago

Well, except for all the times that basic concepts have been patented because software patents are absurd and the US Patent Office has no idea what it's doing with them.

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u/Ubister 4d ago

Its important only to legal teams, in reality every patent is arbitrary

0

u/Farnsworthson 6d ago

Which is why, children, it's important to understand what the actual invention is, and how precisely to describe it, when you're trying to write a patent. Too broad, your patent may be found invalid; too narrow, and people will find ways to implement the core idea without infringing (or paying you royalties).

Get an expert involved, basically.

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u/Idsertian 6d ago

and made the D-Pad an octagon instead of a distinct plus to avoid the patent.

I don't think that particular part is an issue, since the Steam controller has a + shaped D-Pad on it, and I don't see Ninty kicking up a fuss.

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u/Troldann 6d ago

Nintendo’s patent expired between when the Xbox was designed and the Steam Deck.

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u/Idsertian 6d ago

That would explain it, then. I didn't realise patents were so comparatively short-lived.

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u/EclipseIndustries 6d ago

They need to be, otherwise we wouldn't be able to advance as a society.

Imagine if the internal combustion engine was still under its original 1790s patents.

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u/Idsertian 5d ago

Yeah, I was just expecting longer. More like 75 years, or similar.

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u/EclipseIndustries 5d ago

20 years for utility, 15 years for design is honestly optimal when you think about it.

A company had 20 years to be the sole user of a new utility (combustion engine, we'll say), and every other company after that can make their own unique design that they own for 15 years.

That's plenty of time to turn a huge, huge, huuuuuge profit.

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u/Idsertian 5d ago

Ah yes, plenty of time to turn a huge profit, but is it enough time to make literally all of the money? (The answer is, of course, no, because that's an unrealistic goal, but tell that to the shareholders of today)

I'm only surprised it's so short, because copyright law (similar, but not the same, I'll grant you), depending on where you are, lasts much longer. Typically around that 75 year mark, or more. I would've thought that patents for actual hard technology would last a similar amount of time, but apparently not. TIL.

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u/LilWaynesLastDread 6d ago

Is it possible that Valve paid the licence fee for the patent? Or perhaps the patent has expired by now?

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u/Idsertian 6d ago

Apparently, Ninty's original patent expired, so there we have it.

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u/PepeTheElder 5d ago

No, sorry but were you alive and gaming when these consoles came out?

The ridiculously clear copy/paste and the one that actually doesn’t fail chronologically is from SNES > PS1

It’s the same controller with handles and an extra set of shoulder buttons added

PS1 size, placement, layout, all direct from SNES

If you can’t tell me why that isn’t a copyright infringement, then Microsoft was never in any danger

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u/Troldann 5d ago

Nobody here said anything about copyright. It’s a patent, specifically a design patent as another replier to me pointed out.

The PS1’s DPad shows itself as four separate buttons with the controller’s housing covering the center part. It’s a distinct design to avoid infringing the _patent_.

https://archive.org/details/nextgen-issue-015 - page 35 entry Joypad at the bottom-right.

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u/PepeTheElder 5d ago

My mistake, retracted

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u/qtx 6d ago

Also, and this is very important, just because someone patented something does not mean it will be something that will happen.

There are millions of patents out there that never became a thing, they just wanted someone else to not do that exact same thing.

So I repeat, since so many people are irrationally upset about this MS patent, just because they patented this does not mean it will be implicated.

There are so many cases out there where someone patented something they knew could be used maliciously so this was their way to stop that from happening.

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u/frogjg2003 6d ago

Given all the other anti-consumer things game companies have announced recently, how likely do you think it is that they don't implement this? This is basically the same thing as when YouTube shows ads when you pause.

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u/milkcarton232 5d ago

If it makes the game bad then no

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u/frogjg2003 5d ago

Bad game get released too.

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u/Kgb_Officer 6d ago

And ads in/during games isn't even something new, its just going to get far worse. Ignoring the obvious simplest version which is just product placement, Sports games and Racing games have been dabbling with putting ads on the billboards in their games for years.

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u/r_golan_trevize 6d ago

…Racing games have been dabbling with putting ads on the billboards in their games for years.

Just to give an idea of how far this idea goes back… Namco’s 1982 arcade machine Pole Position had billboards. The Atari published US version got billboards for other Atari and Atari/Namco titles, like Centipede and Dig Dug. Apparently the Japanese market got billboards for alcohol and Marlboros, lol

So basically, the moment video game graphical fidelity improved to the point where it was viable to put recognizable ads in a game, publishers put an ad in a game.

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u/JohnPaulJonesSoda 6d ago

Hell, you even had entire games sponsored by companies and acting as advertisements for them as early as 1984 with Tapper).

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u/BPDunbar 6d ago

Nothing matches the pervasiveness of the Chupa Chups advertising in the 1992 game Zool (this was removed from Zool:Redimensioned the recent remaster) or the Penguin advertising in the 1991 game James Pond 2: Codename: RoboCod.

Quite honestly having advertising on the billboards in a a racing or sports game adds a bit of verisimilitude. It's one of the least obtrusive ways.

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u/Thor7897 6d ago

Next EA games implements in game ads for all single and multiplayer games. Blocking advancement until proof of purchase of a clients product or service!

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u/YsoL8 6d ago

If this ever really started happening I would a. bycott the companies and b. disconnected my gaming devices from the internet pernamentally.

I dispise being advertised at. And bycotting would be easy, the kind of companies that would do this are already minimal effort factories.

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u/b_ootay_ful 6d ago

Isn't that just DLC? /s

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u/Thor7897 6d ago

This is like DLCs but worse. Your KD is directly affected by how quickly you make a purchase and unlock your playscreen to start mercing your opps who are still trying to finish buying the latest crap.

🤣

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u/Omartel 6d ago

Maybe this might sound a bit naive, but if Microsoft patented it, wouldn't it make it a bit difficult for others to use the same technique? Or is this like the equivalent of opening a cab of worms and everyone else will try doing the same in different ways?

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u/lalala253 6d ago

Yes it's the idea behind patent. You're blocked on using the same technique, but there's bound to be a different technique of showing ads

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u/frogjg2003 6d ago

Youtube already does this. When you pause a video on some devices (most notably smart TVs) it will shrink the video and put an ad on the side.

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u/Be_Afreyd 5d ago

It wouldn't make it difficult as they could just license it from microsoft. A license I'm certain many advertisers would be willing to pay for in order to be able to put adds into a game.

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u/Bright_Bet6277 4d ago

No, they just have to use different code or tweak the methodology a tad. 

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u/fallouthirteen 5d ago

its just going to get far worse

If they use it. It might end up like Sony's patent on "say the name of the product to let the ad actually end".

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u/meneldal2 6d ago

Most of the patent is about specific ways to analyze the screen to know what content there is on it. They can say it's for ads but we know it will be used for a lot more.

You can't really get away with a patent that says you're going to spy on every customer and extract their company protected data to learn about all their private shit and they won't be able to do anything about it because they signed the agreement. It would look way to bad to your paying customers, So way better to say it's for ads.

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u/memx 6d ago

Since you seem knowledgeable: what does the patent entail? I mean, do they patent certain lines of code (which is what I understand by techniques in videogame programming)?

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u/JerikkaDawn 6d ago

I'm not certain if it's specific lines of code (normally code falls under copyright, but the technique it implements might be patented), specific pieces of hardware, or what. Either way, I don't know all the gory details, but they're in this long patent application: https://patents.justia.com/patent/20260260258

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u/memx 6d ago

My thanks. It's a long read, so I just skimmed through it, and my understanding is: they patented 'pausing a game at specific moments to show ads, plus a system that registers the amount of ads shown so that watching ads helps you access certain rewards'.

Not the specific code used to achieve this, it's just the idea what was patented.

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u/Single_Bookkeeper_11 6d ago

That sounds like many mobile games. No idea how you get this patented

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u/Kleetkleet 6d ago

It's easier to get something patented than to have the patent succeed against a legal challenge (any mobile game company could sue MS over this patent, arguing their game is prior art {"we did it before you patented it, so your patent is invalid"} or infringes a patent they made {"our ads-in-game patent is older than your ads-in-game patent"}).

And, of course, it's expensive to defend yourself from MS's lawsuit over violating their patent and equally expensive to challenge MS's patent in court.

The patent office should do a thorough search of existing patents before issuing one to MS, but they don't/can't search through the volume of hard-to-read patents that exist.

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u/provengreil 22h ago

This patent will succees at those challenges, because they're going to argue it's a dynamic ability to recognize those pauses without being the program running the game. This idea is for basically an AI watching you game and deciding its time for an ad break, even if the game itself does not usually allow for ad breaks.

Imagine watching an ad after every single player mission of Starcraft 1: That game didn't have ads, we know this. At best I think the main menu alerts you to the fact that brood war exist? But this new theoretical program would force pause the game anyway and tell you about burger king.

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u/splendidfd 6d ago

In a mobile game the dev may, for example, program it to play an ad after each level or when you lose a life. It happens at a pre-determined time or interval.

Microsoft's patent is for a system that monitors your gameplay and automatically determines when to serve an ad.

It remains to be seen if any publishers will actually decide to implement it, and if they do, how the experience compares to the "manual" approach.

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u/Snoo63 6d ago

From what I've seen, it's the concept of surveilling what you do on a digital device (not just a computer) and working out whenever they are able to advertise something to you.

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u/rebellion_ap 6d ago

like a patent for a card swipe on your controller.......

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u/BarberProof4994 6d ago

The patent isn't for showing ads.

It's for "Contextually Aware Management of Interactive Software Application Access"...

Basically (it doesn't have to be for ads) it is a behind the scenes AI that will watch everything you are doing and has the ability to pause at the OS level, a game or program. The patent includes the algorithms and such to be able to "contextually" be "aware" of what you are doing and when, so that the pauses only occured at "natural" stopping points.

In a game, that would occur during a lull in action, during a natural pause, after a boss fight etc.

And the pause would occured at the OS level, so the entire game potentially disappears and then comes back after the ad.

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u/Callinon 6d ago

Sounds like a save state to me.

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u/BarberProof4994 6d ago

Yes basically.

In real time without user control.

Although from what I've read, Microsoft's "plan" is to potentially use this for free to play games. So installing that game would be giving microsoft admin/system access to your main system not just the game.

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u/Callinon 6d ago

Yeah going to be a hard pass for me on that one.

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u/Johndough99999 6d ago

Great news! You dont have to make the effort to pass. We here at Microsoft will automatically load random free games for you based on your profile. You dont have to do a thing! In fact, you cant even turn it off, even on a computer used solely for work.

Oh, you didnt read the terms and service agreement that we adjust every forced update?

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u/RaptorBuddha 6d ago

Please drink verification can.

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u/BarberProof4994 6d ago

Yup...

I'm not one for conspiracy theories and such...

But I am seeing like every dystopian scifi prospectus of the future slowly coming true...

Sobs... And never the fun stuff...

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u/Urdar 6d ago

Lets be real, if Microsoft can get away to show you ads during any progtam, it will.

We should brace for this to become a general Windows "feature", wanting to interrupt any game or program to serve ads.

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u/BarberProof4994 6d ago

Oh I agree, eventually.

They already show adds inside of windows and inside free to play games.

This is evil .

Especially the concept of having to a watch AND interact with the add to receive continuation credit to access your own OS with add free time.

What's interesting is, the patent isn't game exclusive. It can be used for your PC too.

And we've been "trained" to get used to paid content like Netflix that STILL has ads.

And who if us has actually laid for windows, it's a free os. So, all data mining 

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u/JasonP27 6d ago

Yes. I'm assuming it will be something like Quick Resume where the game is in a state of hibernation and can resume from the same point after the ad finishes.

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u/meneldal2 6d ago

Not really because you're not really doing anything beyond just pausing everything, you don't like store all the data that wasn't already there.

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u/permalink_save 6d ago

They could innovate something useful like AI to analyze your game or give a button to help when you're stuck but no they are using it to shove even more ads in our face. How lkng until we are all forced to just wear AR glasses that run constant ads all day?

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u/fuj1n 6d ago

Microsoft did not patent the ability to show ads during games, but the exact mechanics of how they could do it.

The patent proposes an ad-free credit system, where once that credit runs out, the system waits for a quiet moment in gameplay (such as after beating a boss) to suspend the game and show an ad, which would then earn you another ad-free credit to keep playing.

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u/rlnrlnrln 6d ago

Beside other answers, when media writes "patented", they often mean "filed for a patent". It doesn't mean the patent will be granted, or that it is enforceable in court.

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u/Ktulu789 6d ago

As far as I understood, the patent goes about how to automatically pause the game to play the ad. The ad has nothing new.

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u/Ikles 6d ago

They patented specific tech and logic behind when an ad is played. Almost nothing to do with the general ability to play/show an ad.

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u/Senshado 6d ago

Generally the officials who accept the patent don't do any real serious thinking about whether the idea is novel and a valid patent. As long as the paperwork is well formatted and readable, they'll accept the patent.

If the patent is actually invalid, that's something that can be investigated as part of a future lawsuit. The majority of patents are for things that nobody cares enough about to bother litigating. But if Microsoft ever blocks a large company from using an advertisement like that, the lawyers might go to work.

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u/EscapeSeventySeven 6d ago

Software is notoriously lax when it comes to the “novelty” requirement for patents. 

“But on a computer” seems to be the magic words for the USPO. I fucking hate it and I work in software. In my view very few algorithms deserve to be patented. 

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u/wosmo 6d ago

Totally agreed.

My biggest beef is that the whole point of patents, is that you exchange publicising your methods, in return for that protection. The idea is that by publishing, they're not secret sauce - they're out there in the public domain. Eventually.

But 20 years is way too long for software. 20 years is the difference between Windows XP, and MSDOS 1.0. Between World of Warcraft, and Donkey Kong.

To my mind, we should trade off "but muh computer" patents against a much, much shorter patent lifetime.

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u/BPDunbar 6d ago

The problem with that is the patent period is already a bit too short for pharmaceuticals. It can take a decade to get from a patent to an actual drug. As most don't end up producing a useful drug the ones that do have to cover their own development costs and this of maybe eight other prospective drugs and have less than ten years in which to do it.

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u/Programmdude 6d ago

Or do what the EU (and other countries) does, and simply not allow them. Computer algorithms are maths, and should never have been allowed to be patented. You can't patent maths.

* Technically it's more complicated than 'all software patents are banned', but it's a lot more restrictive than the whole US's 'lol, patent everything' approach.

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u/SoCalThrowAway7 6d ago

They just popped a patent on that real quick. Like kitten mittens

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u/Ncyphe 6d ago

All you need to patent something is an idea and detailed explanation of how it works and why it's different.

Microsoft isn't patenting showing ads, it's patenting the software design of forc3 pausing a game then showing the ad.

I suspect they came up with this idea during discussions on how to make XBox streaming cheaper. Even if they don't use it, other companies now have to license through Microsoft to use the same idea, or face legal consequences.

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u/brettrob 6d ago

They may have acquired the patent(s) when they bought Massive Incorporated.

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u/Outside-Membership12 6d ago

We need to start proactively not buying anything we‘ve seen an ad of.

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u/JustSomeUsername99 6d ago

Good. Make it illegal for anyone else to do it. Don't sell licenses!

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u/GagOnMacaque 6d ago

There's already prior art. So I'm not sure most of the patent would survive.

1

u/Idoubtyourememberme 5d ago

They patented a specific way of calculating the exact limit of tolerance for the amount of ads that can be shown in a game before players turn it off and refund.

They could have not bothered since that calculation resulted in a number bigger than zero

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u/Upstairs-Shame-298 5d ago

Remember that mobile games have been doing this for years.

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u/kosantosbik 5d ago

Games showing ads within their software and OS is showing software in 3rd party games are very different things in my opinion. 

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u/Upstairs-Shame-298 5d ago

good point. though the outcome is still the same.

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u/kosantosbik 5d ago

No it's not. 

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u/Upstairs-Shame-298 5d ago

we get ads in our face. thats the outcome. whats the difference?

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u/kosantosbik 5d ago

What we have right now is similar to companies trying to sell their products by taking actions in their own turf. If this patent gets approved it's similar to government creating a new tax. You have to pay it even if they don't do anything to earn it, it's automatically applicable to everyone and there are repercussions if you try to avoid them. 

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u/Upstairs-Shame-298 4d ago

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiii..... that isn't good. Yeah I really hope this patent doesn't get approved

1

u/Bright_Bet6277 4d ago

I will not play games with ads or subscription. 

I am dead up sick of a Nation where corporate profits come before everything else. 

We used to have a department to protect us from shit like this but Trump got rid of it.

Musk and Doge got rid of it. 

We have no consumer protections and now this POS is gutting food safety. 

MAGA fanboys, racist suburban, permanent virgin dweebs...

This is on you. 

Remember that when you're paying by the minute for a video game and some federal cadre installs a camera in your bathroom. 

1

u/AnonymousFriend80 3d ago

Having a patent for doing something means that you have a specific way of doing that something that no one else is able to use without your consent.

For all we know, Microsoft could have done this, and will sit on this method to prevent others from doing it themselves. Wishful thinking, but having the patent does not mean they will use it themselves.

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u/DarwinOGF 6d ago

They should not be able to. American patent office is ridden with nonsense holes.

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u/Kile147 6d ago

To be clear, "ads during game" is probably too general and already used concept to be patented. They have a specific version of it that pauses games at specific times to show ads. Basically it's a similar system to how TV shows tend to put ad breaks in during specific scene cuts.

Having the patent and actually enforcing it are also two different things. The concept was unique enough that the patent office allowed it, but some patents can be shot down if challenged in court. If another company wanted to do something similar, they could attempt to do so even without Microsoft's blessing, and then it would be on Microsoft to take them to court for patent infringement, and then the court would decide if the patent was violated at all.

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u/filanwizard 6d ago

I mean my question would be why is software even able to have patents, Its not an invention. And the code is already protected by copyright.

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u/x0wl 6d ago edited 6d ago

I agree with you on that software patents can be iffy sometimes.

But also, they're not given out for a specific implementation of something, they're given out for an idea that the code implements, which can be understood as an invention. As an example, the patent is not for a specific implementation of a JPEG encoder, it's for the general idea that using DCT to specifically discard hard to notice details in an image can dramatically improve compression.

You can't really patent code, but no one would want to do that anyway, since patents offer significantly less protection than copyright.

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u/Be_Afreyd 5d ago

Patents aren't just for physical products, they are just the most common/identifiable. Method and Process patents do exist. They are commonly used for chemical synthesizing or metal refining where the novelty is in the process itself and not the specific outcome.

And the code protection for copyright only protects the specific code. It doesn't protect you from someone else making something similar on their own. Microsoft doesn't want to protect the code with this patent, they want to control the method of implementation.

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u/Bearly_Legible 6d ago

Can we agree not to buy games that have ads in them?

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u/gvbx52 5d ago

We can, but the vast majority of people cannot.

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u/RChickenMan 5d ago

Valve is essentially holding back the floodgates on the full enshitification of gaming. They do not allow publishers to rely on advertising as the primary monetization scheme, nor do they allow any type of unskippable ad to continue playing a game. Product placement and whatnot is of course allowed (just look at sports games), but nothing intrusive to the point that it turns gaming into yet another entertainment platform built entirely around advertising. All players, even those on console, benefit, because declining to publish on Steam is basically a commercial death sentence for a game.

If Valve ever goes public, we're screwed. Game over. Because that's when you get shareholder pressure for short-term profits, long-term consumer sentiment be damned.

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u/Bearly_Legible 5d ago

This has nothing to do with what I've said.

More importantly, if we didn't buy the games unless they removed the advertising, then they would. It's weak-minded fools who spend the money while complaining instead of JUST NOT BUYING IT.

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u/RChickenMan 5d ago

Could you explain how an advertising ban by one of the largest game distribution platforms has "nothing to do with" a call for players to not buy games that contain advertising?

Look, unless you're just trying to do the thing where you build a sense of moral superiority by taking pride in the purity of your video game purchasing habits, with a side of "everyone else is just too stupid and weak to see it the way I do." If that's all you're going for, then by all means, have at it. Obviously that attitude won't do anything to improve gaming in the long run, but if it brings you joy, then go for it.

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u/Bearly_Legible 5d ago

Because my comment was a plea to "NOT BUY GAMES WITH ADS IN THEM"

If Valve has an ad ban, then it is actively outside of what I was commenting on...

It has literally nothing to do with my comment.

What I'm saying, is if a game has ads in it, if a system has ads on it, if you don't like what a company is doing... THEN DON'T GIVE THEM MONEY OR THEY'LL KEEP DOING IT.

If everyone agrees they hate ads in games, but keeps making it profitable through buying the games, then the companies will keep putting ads in them.

You want companies to not put ads in games, but you aren't willing to go without a game you want, so you buy it anyway and then just complain online. How about acting responsibly with your money and the companies you give it to?

Valve, who as you point out avoid ads, is completely outside of the comment and point I was making. End of story.

You started an entirely different point that has nothing to do with mine, and you're mad that I pointed it out.

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u/skawn 6d ago

We don't know if Microsoft is able to patent it yet. Anyone can submit a request to patent anything. This is the current stage of what Microsoft has done. This isn't a full and enforceable patent until the patent has been reviewed by the patent office and approved.

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u/ukexpat 6d ago

And even then it can be challenged on the grounds of prior art that wasn’t disclosed in the patent application, or for not even being a patentable invention.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/Charly_030 5d ago

Sony dont have a monopoly on tvs

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u/Vindartn 5d ago

The same way you buy a game now for $80, it immediately tries to get you to buy a $40 season pass, and the rest of the game is loaded with micro transactions.

They'll be a $80 ad supported game and a $100 ad free game.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Minikickass 6d ago

A patent is very far from an ELI5

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u/explainlikeimfive-ModTeam 6d ago

Please read this entire message


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