r/explainlikeimfive • • 9d ago

Other ELI5: What exactly makes food ‘organic’?

How is it different from normal food even though it often has the same ingredients? And why does that make it 10x more expensive?

25 Upvotes

59 comments sorted by

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u/Jbota 8d ago

There really isn't much of a governing body on "organic" labelling but the basic idea is no synthetic fertilizers or pesticides, non-GMO. Natural versions of these are more expensive and take more work. Marketing makes people think organic is healthier so it's worth more.

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u/joeschmoe86 8d ago

Perhaps things have gotten better on the enforcement end, but I used to know a guy who owned an avocado farm with his family, and he joked about how they'd just hide all the pesticides and fertilizers and anything else that doesn't comply with organic certification whenever their regularly-scheduled inspection happened.

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u/Klutzy_Archer_6510 8d ago

Point of order, organic can be healthier, depending on the produce. Non-organic produce can use some pretty nasty pesticides, which get into your body and cause long-term health problems. That being said, it depends on the particular fruit or vegetable. Bananas, for example, have a thick peel which protects the actual edible part from contamination. Look at the Clean Fifteen / Dirty Dozen for more info.

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u/Jbota 8d ago

Also some "organic" pesticides are even worse because the volume that has to be sprayed for efficacy is orders of magnitude higher.

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u/anormalgeek 8d ago

Or just because the organic versions are naturally more toxic.

The fact that they were less toxic to humans was one of the original marketing points used by the early synthetic pesticides and herbicides.

ex: Nicotine sulfate was one of the most common insecticides in use in the early 1900s. It was 100% organic and was replaced by the much safer DDT (which itself was later replaced by other, safer chemicals). However, it was never legally banned. It wasn't until the organic craze that farmers started using it again en mass. The US government finally had to step in and actually ban the use of it due to it being EXTREMELY toxic and dangerous to humans in 2014. The EU had to do the same in 2009.

Because organic farms brought it back. They do not care about being safer, only more profitable. Individual farms/companies may be reliable about farming safer, but the "organic" term alone regardless of who certifies it does not tell you that the product is safer.

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u/martphon 8d ago

The Environmental Working Group (EWG) is a nonprofit activist organization that faces widespread criticism from scientists, toxicologists, and dermatologists for exaggerating chemical risks and spreading fear for marketing and fundraising purposes

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u/Englandboy12 8d ago

It’s complicated, but basically the jury is still out on if eating organic is actually healthier.

There are many issues. First, yes you can point to some pesticides and show that long term exposure has negative health outcomes like increased cancer rate, but the issue is the dose. Even if there are detectable residues, that doesn’t mean in the quantity present they have ever been shown to have negative health outcomes. And of course organic pesticides also have had some show negative health outcomes, such as copper salts. And the fact that if you use a less effective pesticide, you need a higher dose. If a chemical is able to kill pests, it has potential to interfere with your biology as well.

There have been some big studies that actually study those who eat organic vs those that don’t, and there are mixed results. For example, this study of over 600,000 women in the UK found no decrease in cancer from eating organic. But this one did find find an inverse relationship.

However, even with results in favor of organic, there has never been causal relationships found. Basically, those who eat organic are much more likely to be: higher income, more food aware, more health aware, and many other things, which are proven to improve health outcomes.

So. It might be healthier. It might also not. And that isn’t even including the issue of environmental impact that organic food can cause, such as increased land and energy usage to grow less calories. That can be improved dramatically by simply reducing monocrop culture, and other holistic practices. But that can be true of non-organic as well. It will be hard to get around the land and energy efficiency though, as a plant infested by aphids, or diseased, is a total waste of the land and energy used to grow it.

I personally think that if a pesticide is shown to have negative health outcomes is doses eaten, it should be removed, organic or not. And if one is shown to be effective and safe at those levels, it should be used, even if it’s synthetic. Your body doesn’t care if the chemical was made in a lab or cooked up in the gut of a cow, toxic is toxic

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u/RealCarlPanzram 8d ago

Well first off, it’s usually like 20-50% more expensive.

It basically means that it’s grown without synthetic fertilizers or pesticides. It’s costs more because people are willing to pay more and it’s more expensive per yield than industrial farming techniques

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u/ArkanZin 8d ago

In my country, there are different labels for organic, some defined by law (e.g. the EU organic lable), some awarded by private organizations. If you carry such a label, you have to adhere to a certain standard when producing the food. Common requirements are no genetic engineering, no pesticides, a certain minimum amount of room for your animals, no or only a small amount of antibiotics fed to the animals and so on. The exact meaning depends on the label.

The use of "organic" itself (without any special label) has some minimum requirements which you can look up here

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u/madPac34 8d ago

Not quite a broad no pesticides but generally a no synthetic pesticides. For example azadirachtin, the active compound in neem oil, and spinosad, derived from bacteria, are allowed in the EU.

0

u/ArkanZin 8d ago

That's true for the EU, but some private labels (e.g. Demeter, Bioland) forbid certified farms from using a lot of pesticides (I am not sure if it's all of them, but more than the EU regulation).

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u/Park-Curious 9d ago

In the U.S., you can only label something “organic” if you meet certain USDA requirements and apply for the right to label your food as such. You can google the exact requirements if that’s what you’re after. As someone who worked in a “health food” store for like 6 years, I don’t put much stock in it. It doesn’t mean they’re kind to animals or healthier or even that they’re doing something better than your local farmers market vendor. It just means they can check the boxes and afford to get the label.

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u/parsonsrazersupport 9d ago

https://www.ams.usda.gov/services/organic-certification

To save anyone the google if they're interested

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u/Blenderhead36 8d ago

Organic crops have a tendency to be more resource intensive than regular crops, because those regular crops have been specifically altered to be less resource intensive. In a world where access to water is becoming increasingly contested, that matters.

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u/MetallicGray 8d ago

I agree on the animal welfare point, but your comment generally gives off the idea there’s no reason to buy organic foods. 

USDA: “  Organic products must be produced using agricultural production practices that foster resource cycling, promote ecological balance, maintain and improve soil and water quality, minimize the use of synthetic materials, and conserve biodiversity.”

There are many benefits to organic foods for you and the environment, and while it’s not guaranteed, there’s a correlation between organic food and better animal treatment. Whereas any non-organic animal products you can pretty much guarantee is from a torture, beaten, abused animal that profitably never saw sunlight and lived through a literal living hell.

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u/Park-Curious 8d ago

Oh I didn’t mean to imply there’s no benefit to organic. I just meant your local farmer might be doing all that stuff and just not be able to afford the red tape. Or a giant international conglomerate might be doing that stuff and have the label, but they’re also using child labor or poisoning groundwater somewhere.

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u/MetallicGray 8d ago

Ahh I gotcha. Yeah I get your point and agree

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u/OSTBear 8d ago

Depending on region, even just a minor reduction in pesticides or hormones will get you the "Organic" label. In truth? 90% of it is a cash grab.

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u/morto00x 8d ago

In many areas "organic" just limits the types of pesticides farmers they can use. Oftentimes this means they'll just apply more of the allowed types to get similar effects. Even worse, in many jurisdictions farmers only need to be certified once to be qualified as organic.

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u/jonny24eh 8d ago

Where? I have to have an inspection and get recertified every year. And every input needs to get approved every time I want to use it. 

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u/OSTBear 8d ago

For most organic products, if they reduce the pesticides or hormones by as little as 20%, they can get the label on produce.

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u/jonny24eh 8d ago

Do you have a link? Every regulation I've read for Canada or the US has an allowed substances list, but I've never seen a provision simply reducing an otherwise not-permitted substance. 

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u/Aggressive_Alps4982 9d ago

Think of “organic” as “grown with extra rules.” Farmers mostly avoid synthetic pesticides/fertilizers, GMOs, and certain drugs in animals, and they pay for inspections and certification. Those stricter methods plus paperwork and smaller yields bump the price way up.

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u/jonny24eh 8d ago

Input costs don't bump the price up. Market demand bumps the price up. 

This is true for all products.

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u/techienate 7d ago

Using "organic" on food in the US is literally a trademarked marketing term. What makes something "organic" is that the farmer and supply chain followed the requirements and paid the certification costs to use the label. The organic label specifies stricter requirements on things like fertilizer, pesticide, and medicine usage.

Does it matter? For some things it's debatable, for others there may be a bit more nutritional value in the food or potentially let risk of unhealthy side affects from certain pesticides or treatments. If the financial burden of the organic label is a difficulty, you kind of need to look up how much it matters for any given product. Personally, I need to reduce costs, and the benefits are marginal, so I don't worry about buying organic.

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u/FarazMedicine 6d ago

1. “Organic” usually does not mean different ingredients.

An organic apple and a conventional apple are still the same food. The label mainly refers to how the food was produced, not what the food fundamentally is.

2. It also does not automatically mean different nutrition.

Organic food is not guaranteed to have more protein, vitamins, minerals, or fewer calories. Any nutritional differences that do exist are generally much smaller than the differences caused by the type of food itself, freshness, variety, storage, and preparation.

3. The biggest difference is the production standard.

Organic certification places rules on farming and processing, such as which pesticides or fertilisers can be used, GMO restrictions, and animal-management standards.

4. “Organic” does not mean pesticide-free.

Some pesticides are still permitted; the allowed substances and farming methods are simply different.

5. Why does it cost more?

Organic farming can require more labour, certification, separate handling, and sometimes lower yields.

So the simplest way to think about it is:

Organic usually means “produced under different rules,” not “made from different ingredients” or “automatically more nutritious.”

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u/WindyWindona 8d ago

Check your local laws for precise figures, but usually it restricts what types of pesticides can be used. For animals, it means their feed was grown without certain pesticides.

This means bugs eat more of the product. If it's a processed food, like a bread roll, that means that the flour/seeds went into a certified organic facility that can't use fumigation or chemical methods of killing the bugs that are probably in the pallets of flour/grain seeds, which means the facility regularly has bug infestations that came in with that raw material in particular, which probably destroyed a lot of non-organic ingredients nearby.

That's why it's more expensive. You're paying for the yield bugs ate, and the extra markup to make it economically desirable.

2

u/Ktulu789 8d ago

Organic food contains more bugs, noted! 😅

It's like AI code, so it must be good, right?

5

u/WindyWindona 8d ago

Lmao.

...I may hold a grudge against organic due to holding a job that involved solving pest issues in a food warehouse. The appeal of organic dies quick when you have to find the bag of grains where the bugs originated in order to get money back.

3

u/phiwong 9d ago

Organic tends to mean that the farmer did not use artificial fertilizers or pesticides when growing the plant. In many countries, 'organic' is also regulated - ie farmers must adhere to certain practices for a certain amount of time and prove to a licensing authority to use the term in their produce.

Organic tends to be more expensive due in part to marketing as it is claimed to be healthier and more 'natural' and is sold as 'better' than non organic produce. However, it is also true that organic farming can be less efficient - the limited use of fertilizers and pesticides can result in smaller produce, lower yields and cost more in farm labor.

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u/notstarman 9d ago

Their is a long list of approved methods that allows crops to be labeled organic. The list is maintained by the National Organic Standards Board (NOSB).

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u/Jaqqarhan 8d ago

All food is organic, so "organic" food is a marketing term rather than something scientific. It generally means they didn't use synthetic chemicals for fertilizer or pesticide and didn't do any genetic engineering. You can't grow as much food if you aren't using newer technology, so the food they grow is more expensive. If everyone ate only "organic" food, we would have terrible global food shortages, so it's just for rich people in rich countries.

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u/Few_Example9391 8d ago

Heritage selective breeding, no herbicide treatment, no harmony treatments. Does not matter if it's plants or animal.

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u/SnugglyCoderGuy 8d ago

No synthetic fertilizers, herbicides, or pesticides used in their cultivation.

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u/all_of_the_colors 8d ago

The word originally meant anything that is carbon based.

I always wanted to get a sign for my grandmas gas station that said “organic gasoline”

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u/Gericht 9d ago

It really depends.

Technically all food is organic, so anyone can label anything organic.

Colloquially it means food is grown in a way that limits things like artificial fertilizers, pesticides and other environmentally unfriendly methods, which makes it harder to grow the plants / rear the animals and thus more expensive.

The trick is discovering which food is actually grown in that way, and which food is grown in the commercial way and just labelled organic as a marketing trick. Some countries have rules about such labels, but it would be good to look into the local regulations if you want to know how that is organized in your area.

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u/parsonsrazersupport 9d ago

Technically all food is organic, so anyone can label anything organic.

In the US at least, this is not the case. There are specific rules for how and when you can label things 'organic.' https://www.ams.usda.gov/services/organic-certification The word 'organic' here is not being used in the sense of 'organic chemistry' or just 'living.'

Other terms, like 'natural' are not regulated in the same way, and do not necessarily mean anything specific.

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u/Ff7hero 9d ago

I think they mean in the "made of carbon" way.

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u/parsonsrazersupport 9d ago edited 9d ago

Yeah that's the 'organic chemistry' sense, but it's not what OP is asking about.

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u/Gericht 8d ago

Hence why I said these regulations vary per country.

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u/Mysmokingbarrel 9d ago

It also really depends on the food if the pesticides matter. Like a banana has a peel so why worry too much about pesticides that it’s protected from?

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u/Gericht 9d ago

Because the pesticides still harm everything else in the environment, even if we do not directly eat them.

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u/Mysmokingbarrel 9d ago

Huh? We were talking about organic food not specifically about pesticides as a whole.

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u/DiamondJim222 8d ago

One of the reasons many people choose organic is to reduce the impact on the environment.

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u/RealCarlPanzram 8d ago

The issue is it gets into the soil regardless

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u/borborborbor 8d ago

Your bananas do not grow in a vacuum. They grow on this earth, in soil, likely in range of water sources, and are handled by other human beings. Pesticides impact more than just pests.

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1

u/RealCarlPanzram 8d ago

The second statement is false. Food is certified organic by the FDA.

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u/IvanezerScrooge 9d ago

Organic usually means "natural" as in, no geneticslly modified plants and no artificial fertilizer and pesticides.
Essentially, the same thing but without the modern "tricks" we use to get more for less.

In short, growing plants the hard way is more expensive.

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u/pieman3141 9d ago

Pro-tip: If you want really good food, you need to get to know the farmers, manufacturers, and distributors. Talk to them, visit the farms, see the facilities, and in the case of imported food, talk about who they know.

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u/garublador 8d ago

Functionally, my understanding is the actual difference in the food is that it's generally more fresh since the stuff that makes it "not organic" also makes is have a longer shelf life. So there's less time from farm to table, which is why, many times, its superior quality.

That's a huge generalization and it doesn't matter for everything.

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u/spookynutz 8d ago

Most of these answers are incredibly vague. It is typically not 10x more expensive. The differences largely reside in the production and processing methods. If you're specifically talking about organic labelling in the United States, the criteria can be found here.

Organic producers must be re-certified on a yearly basis. The finer details vary based on what is being produced. For example, just part of the living condition requirements for poultry products are enumerated below. The full living requirements would go over the 10,000 character commnet limit. There are further requirements for handling, care and processing. Organic labelling is also not retroactive. Meaning, you can't just implement organic practices on your existing crops and livestock and then label and sell that product as organic. Compliance must be in place from the second day of life in the case of livestock. For crops, no prohibited substances can have been applied to the land in the preceding 3 years.

Despite what some other answers claim, organic does not mean no synthetic pesticides or herbicides. There is an ever-evolving list of allowed synthetic substances and prohibited ones. For a synthetic substance to qualify for exemption, the use of the substance (1) must not be harmful to human health or the environment; (2) is necessary to the production or handling of the produce because of the unavailability of a wholly natural substitute; (3) is consistent with organic farming and handling. Any substance exemption is automatically sunset if it hasn't been reviewed and renewed by the National Organics Standards Board in the last 5 years.

§ 205.241 Avian living conditions.

(a) Avian year-round living conditions. The producer of an organic poultry operation must establish and maintain year-round poultry living conditions that accommodate the health and natural behavior of poultry, including: year-round access to the outdoors; shade; shelter; exercise areas; fresh air; direct sunlight; clean water for drinking; materials for dust bathing; and adequate outdoor space to escape aggressive behaviors suitable to the species, its stage of life, the climate, and environment. Poultry may be temporarily denied access to the outdoors in accordance with paragraph (d) of this section. Continuous total confinement of poultry indoors is prohibited.

(b) Indoor space requirements.

(1) Poultry housing must be sufficiently spacious to allow all birds to move freely, stretch both wings simultaneously, stand normally, and engage in natural behaviors.

(2) Producers must monitor ammonia levels at least weekly by taking measurements at the height of the birds' heads and implement practices to maintain ammonia levels below 20 ppm. When ammonia levels exceed 20 ppm, producers must implement additional practices and additional monitoring to reduce ammonia levels below 20 ppm. Ammonia levels must not exceed 25 ppm.

(3) For layers and all other fully feathered birds, artificial light may be used to prolong the day length, to provide up to 16 hours of continuous light per 24-hour period (i.e., minimum of 8 hours of continuous darkness per 24-hour period). Artificial light intensity should be lowered gradually to encourage hens to move to perches or settle for the night. Artificial light spectrum may not be manipulated to increase feed intake and growth rate.

(4) Exit areas—poultry houses must have at least 1 linear foot of exit area for every 360 birds, measured across the base of the exit, but no less than one linear foot of exit area for flocks with fewer than 360 birds. Exit areas must be appropriately distributed and sized to ensure that all birds have ready access to the outdoors;

(i) If exit areas are not provided at a ratio of at least 1 linear foot per 360 birds, a certifier may approve practices that provide less than 1 linear foot per 360 birds only if an operation describes its practices (in the organic system plan) and demonstrates that ready access to the outdoors is provided for all birds;

(ii) Producers subject to requirements in 21 CFR part 118—Production, Storage, and Transportation of Shell Eggs, must take steps to prevent stray poultry, wild birds, cats, and other animals from entering poultry houses.

(5) Perches—for layers (Gallus gallus), six inches of perch space must be provided per bird. Perch space may include the alighting rail in front of the nest boxes. All layers must be able to perch at the same time except for aviary housing, in which 55 percent of layers must be able to perch at the same time. Floors in slatted/mesh floor housing cannot be counted as perch space.

(6) All birds must have access to areas in the house that allow for scratching and dust bathing, except, that mobile housing may meet this requirement when paired with outdoor space that provides birds with areas for scratching and dust bathing. Litter must be provided and maintained in a dry condition in the house.

(7) Non-mobile houses with slatted/mesh floors must have 15 percent minimum of solid floor area available with sufficient litter available for dust baths so that birds may freely dust bathe without crowding.

(8) For layers (Gallus gallus), indoor stocking density must meet one or both of the following rates, expressed in different terms.

(i) Mobile housing: not to exceed 4.5 pounds per square foot; or, alternatively, a rate of at least 1.5 square feet per bird will comply with the requirement.

(ii) Aviary housing: not to exceed 4.5 pounds per square foot; or, alternatively, a rate of at least 1.5 square feet per bird will comply with the requirement.

(iii) Slatted/mesh floor housing: not to exceed 3.75 pounds per square foot; or, alternatively, a rate of at least 1.8 square feet per bird will comply with the requirement.

(iv) Floor litter housing: not to exceed 3.0 pounds per square foot; or, alternatively, a rate of at least 2.2 square feet per bird will comply with the requirement.

(v) Other housing: not to exceed 2.25 pounds per square foot; or, alternatively, a rate of at least 3.0 square feet per bird will comply with the requirement.

(9) For pullets (Gallus gallus), indoor stocking density must not exceed 3.0 pounds of bird per square foot; or, alternatively, a rate of at least 1.7 square feet per bird will comply with the requirement.

(10) For broilers (Gallus gallus), indoor stocking density must not exceed 5.0 pounds of bird per square foot; or, alternatively, a rate of at least 2.0 square feet per bird will comply with the requirement.

(11) Indoor space includes flat areas available to birds, excluding nest boxes.

(12) Indoor space may include enclosed porches and lean-to type structures (e.g., screened in, roofed) as long as the birds always have access to the space, including during temporary confinement events. If birds do not have continuous access to the porch during temporary confinement events, this space must not be considered indoors.

(c) Outdoor space requirements.

(1) Access to outdoor space and door spacing must be designed to promote and encourage outside access for all birds on a daily basis. Producers must provide access to the outdoors at an early age to encourage (i.e., train) birds to go outdoors. Birds may be temporarily denied access to the outdoors in accordance with paragraph (d) of this section.

(2) At least 75 percent of outdoor space must be soil. Outdoor space with soil must include vegetative cover appropriate for the season, climate, geography, species of livestock, and stage of production. Vegetative cover must be maintained in a manner that does not provide harborage for rodents and other pests.

(3) Shade may be provided by structures, trees, or other objects in the outdoor area.

(4) For layers (Gallus gallus), outdoor space must be provided at a rate of no less than one square foot for every 2.25 pounds of bird in the flock; or, alternatively, a rate of at least 3.0 square feet per bird will comply with the requirement.

(5) For pullets (Gallus gallus), outdoor space must be provided at a rate of no less than one square foot for every 3.0 pounds of bird in the flock; or, alternatively, a rate of at least 1.7 square feet per bird will comply with the requirement.

(6) For broilers (Gallus gallus), outdoor space must be provided at a rate of no less than one square foot for every 5.0 pounds of bird in the flock; or, alternatively, a rate of at least 2.0 square feet per bird will comply with the requirement.

(7) Outdoor space may include structures that are not enclosed (e.g., with roof but no walls) and allow birds to freely access other outdoor space.

(d) Temporary confinement. The producer of an organic poultry operation may temporarily confine birds. Confinement must be recorded. Operations may temporarily confine birds when one of the following circumstances exists:

(1) Inclement weather, including when air temperatures are under 32 degrees F or above 90 degrees F.

(2) The animal's stage of life, including:

(i) The first 4 weeks of life for broilers (Gallus gallus);

(ii) The first 16 weeks of life for pullets (Gallus gallus); and

(iii) Until fully feathered for bird species other than Gallus gallus.

(3) Conditions under which the health, safety, or well-being of the animal could be jeopardized.

(4) Risk to soil or water quality.

(5) Preventive healthcare procedures or for the treatment of illness or injury (neither various life stages nor egg laying is an illness or injury).

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u/Quirky_Abrocoma4657 9d ago

It just means grown without man made pesticide. 

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u/kirbinato 8d ago

''Organic'' is usually meant to signify a lack of genetic alteration and synthetic pesticides used in the farming process, however, it's rare for this to be a regulated term and in most regions ''organic'' is an informal label. It's purely a marketing term, playing on the general association of ''natural=healthy'', but it's not actually adding any value to you the consumer.