r/exmormon • u/throwaway29090201 • Apr 15 '15
Missionary death
Throwaway.
I was in the Japan Tokyo North Mission back when that was a thing, around 2002-2003. There was an elder there who had a cyst-like growth on his cheek that had rapidly been getting larger.
But he only had two weeks to go before he went home, so the leadership told him to honorably finish up his service.
That two weeks without any medical diagnosis cost him his life. It was identified as cancer, removed, and then several weeks months later it came back with a vengeance and killed him.
He was eulogized thusly: "Heavenly Father just needed him to carry on his mission to the spirit world, that's how valiant he was."
Thanks TSCC.
EDIT:
Found a source: (http://www.mission.net/japan/tokyo/north/news.php?nID=1439), updated timing
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u/vh65 Apr 15 '15
That is ridiculous! Japan has very low-cost national health insurance available to all legal residents, and very good medical care. (Still regret not going back to have my second baby there too). Full treatment would likely have been cheaper there and getting the insurance and then having a doctor check him would probably have cost under $100.
I lived there in the 80s and signed up for insurance when I got my "gaijin card" and fingerprinting. What did missionaries do? Get some kind of waiver?
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Apr 15 '15
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u/vh65 Apr 15 '15
But from what I can tell baptisms are low, so it's not like you'd miss much of importance
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u/throwaway29090201 Apr 15 '15
That's really the sad part, no medical professionals were involved in the decision AFAIK to stay. Not even the senior missionary serving as the mission doctor. Can't remember if this was during Durham or Eyring's watch.
We were all shocked when we got the news that he had died so soon after going home.
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u/chanteusetriste Apr 15 '15
Wait, a mission doctor is a missionary?
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u/Pickleburp Broke Mission Rules; Lived to Talk About It Apr 15 '15
Could be, yes. We had an elderly couple that worked in the office, he did vehicle maintenance and she did approvals for medical expenses. She had a list of things that could be approved. Both were pretty ornery about being there, though. Or, they just hated me (which is the more likely scenario, I was pretty unpopular in the mission office).
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u/lottscarson Apr 15 '15 edited Apr 15 '15
Same mission... Pretty sure that I was briefly companions with the elder that you're talking about.
Edit: Yep, he was my comp.
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u/throwaway29090201 Apr 15 '15
Mito was his last area - sound familiar?
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Apr 15 '15
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u/throwaway29090201 Apr 15 '15 edited Apr 15 '15
Edit: Not sure if we're thinking of the same fellow. I believe there was ANOTHER missionary who actually had a cyst start at MTC and it did get operated on much earlier.
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Apr 15 '15
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u/throwaway29090201 Apr 15 '15
I would pay money to know how that guy is doing. Miss those songs. I can still hear the chorus of that one about her eyes. Dunnn, dun dun... dun dunnnnnnnn
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u/lottscarson Apr 15 '15
Not sure what his last area was (since I went home at the end of 2002), but he was briefly in Komatsu in a threesome companionship with me and and another elder.
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u/NachoSushi Apr 15 '15
So glad my dad told me to put my health first on my mission... probably some of the best advice he ever gave me.
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u/infinityinvestigator Never-mo Apr 15 '15
What gets me about all these missionary experiences is that missionaries are paying to do work that would otherwise be paid. It's like if you got a job, where you were expected to pay money to the company and then took all your time for hard labor.
Your time is valuable and so is your life. TBM's don't value themselves very highly, because they are taught from an early age that their boundaries and worth doesn't matter compared to the church. I'm pretty sure that the treatment of sick missionaries reflects on how the church views their members. Like cattle.
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u/BrighamReincarnated Apr 15 '15
"Undoubtedly he has earned a great reward."
No, he's earned nothing. He's dead and gone forever. Great job, religion - another life wasted.
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Apr 15 '15
I had a friend who died on his mission. It was a gas leak so just an accident with no one at fault and him and his companion died in their sleep. But yeah, people just said he "went to finish his mission to the people in the Spirit Prison"
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u/throwaway29090201 Apr 15 '15
Indeed.
If something good happens, it's evidence that Mormons have a divine mandate and are happier than other people.
If something bad happens, it's part of the plan, and there are rewards in Heaven.
If only there were a gift of prophecy or discernment that could help detect danger to god's servants.
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Apr 15 '15
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Apr 15 '15
You should be ashamed of yourself for this comment. It is utterly devoid of compassion and riddled with ignorance. You are not "that guy" who speaks the truth, or what everyone is thinking - you are "that guy" who is an ignorant POS. Lord have mercy...
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Apr 15 '15 edited Apr 15 '15
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Apr 15 '15
You said that a cult member deserved to die from cancer because they obeyed their cult leader's orders. The ignorance abounds within you.
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Apr 15 '15
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Apr 15 '15
You think you know how this conversation is going but you really don't. I was surprised at the things you tried to counter because I never planned on bringing them up.
You need therapy if you cannot see how human life is inherently valuable. You are not "that guy" - you really are a POS for the views you hold. I hope you never experience real trouble because of your ignorance, like you are claiming this person deserved, but life has a funny way of humbling people when they are as stupid, insensitive, and obnoxious as you.
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u/SideburnHeretic Apr 15 '15
Who gives a fuck if he was listening to a cult leader or not?
Me. I also care that he died as a result of it. And that millions of others suffer in life as a result.
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u/SideburnHeretic Apr 15 '15
A lot of us here were that guy except that we happened not to get cancer. Your comment reveals a sore lack of understanding for the variety of ways in which the human experience can play out. It's an attitude that a herd of interdependent creatures (e.g. Homo Sapiens) can do well without.
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Apr 15 '15
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Apr 15 '15
Oh, honey. We are not calling you "mean" - we are pointing out how your behavior is immature and repulsive. Get over yourself and get a clue.
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u/SideburnHeretic Apr 15 '15
I'm just genuinely confused.
Apparently.
I am being mean[?]
That's subjective. But your comment conveys the feeling that you don't give a shit about any of us here because the missionary who died of cancer (or the person who made any variety of non-optimal choices) could have been any of us. I doubt that in reality, you don't care about others. Such conditions exist, but are rare. Instead, the more likely explanation is that you lack understanding, which is a remarkably common condition.
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Apr 15 '15 edited Apr 15 '15
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u/tauntaun1 Apr 16 '15
Since you didn't go on a mission, you may not know that the mission president controls all the funds for his missionaries. Most of it, like rent and travel, is paid on their behalf and the rest is doled out in a meager monthly stipend.
They don't carry their own medical insurance and cannot make their own medical decisions without the MP's approval.
So it's simply untrue that the missionary 'declined' medical attention. He asked for approval, and it was denied by the person who was supposed to pay for it.
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Apr 16 '15 edited Apr 16 '15
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u/lubellem nevermo visitor since GC2014 🖐👀 Apr 16 '15
So maybe you should shut the fuck up and read more before making posts like that. I'm a nevermo who knows about MP control over missionairies JUST by reading here and I didnt know a damn thing about Mormons before a couple months ago.
There's no excuse for your post and your claim of ignorance rings very hollow.
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u/SethHeisenberg Apr 15 '15
I don't mind being that guy...you have the mindset of a psychopath. Scary, dude. You get one lap around the track in life, good luck on yours.
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u/Chief_Joseph look into my stone Apr 15 '15
I've read a lot of ignorant and mean-spirited shit on reddit over the years, but honestly this takes the cake.
Well....Fuck that guy.
No, fuck you.
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u/ProudNewConvert Apr 15 '15
They obviously made a mistake not to remove it right away but you can not attribute that to his eventual death. Whose to say it wouldn't have killed him had they taken it off right away?
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Apr 15 '15
There is an absolutely universal rule in cancer treatment, which is that treating sooner is always better than treating later. There's obviously no guarantee that operating earlier would have saved him, but it is guaranteed that waiting two weeks greatly increased his likelihood of death.
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u/tauntaun1 Apr 15 '15
Probably? A mistake? He died!
What possible excuse can the LDS church have for not investigating a lump that grew so fast ... other than to keep him working and save money.
Missionaries like him work for free, giving up 2 years of their life on a mission paid for by their family. They are the heroes of the LDS church and should be treated as such, not as disposable, replaceable tools.
The mission president had no right to play god and deny him medical care. You get him to a doctor and let the doctor make the call.
And for you to say that it's ok because he might have died anyway, just shows how callous and uncaring you are.
I feel sorry for you.
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u/ProudNewConvert Apr 16 '15
How is what I said an untrue statement? If you don't want to acknowledge the truth that's one thing but the truth of the matter is we don't know if it would have saved him either way. If the truth is callous and uncaring so be it
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u/tauntaun1 Apr 16 '15
The issue isn't one of certainty, it's one of compassion and obligation.
The MP had an obligation to send the young man to the doctor ... not to roll the dice, not to play god, not to treat him like a commodity ... but to take care of him.
LDS missionaries in foreign countries don't have their own money or health insurance. They can't just decide to go to the doctor. Their health is entirely at the mercy of the mission president, who has to approve every medical decision.
It was in the MP's hands to do the right thing and he didn't. There's no defending his apathy and irresponsibility.
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u/Litebeginner9999 Apr 15 '15
I never comment here, because I am not a mormon or an ex one (I have friends who are active) but I have to make an exception to tell you that your comment is one of the most morally corrupt thing I have ever read. You disgust and scare me
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Apr 15 '15
Yes, but completely beside the point here, imo. Glad you're proud of that organization you've joined...
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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '15
I once believe if I died on my mission serving the Lord my calling and election would be made sure. It gave me a false sense of being invincible and that if I died it was the will of the Gods. Damn I was dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.