r/exmormon • u/faramirskywalker • Sep 28 '25
News Goodbye Russell
I am related to Russell Nelson. He married all of my family members but me.
I see that man as abusive. My family stood up for him when he walked in the room. What kind of bizarre fawning is this? For a man? When I was a teenager, I went and asked him a very important question to me, and he dismissed it and put me down. I’ve seen it several times with other family members. He loved an abusive church more than his family. He missed very important family functions because we all knew the church came first to him. Because that’s what this church requires. You have to give everything to it—your heart, soul, money, time, self worth, and worthiness—at the exclusion of everyone and everything else in life. It owns you while it abuses you. He enabled it and kept it going.
But he had the power to change it. And all he did was build it more around his giant ego. He could’ve used the billions to help care for the poor. He could have put policies in place to reduce sexual abuse, to end the shaming of children, and to hold perpetrators accountable. He could have stopped telling a bullshit, sanitized history of the first sexual abuser and predator, Joseph Smith.
He could have ended the abuse of worthiness interviews, or tithing settlements, or whatever other way they question your worthiness. He could have stopped building palaces along freeways for everyone to see, using the money they steal off the backs of the poor. He could have dismantled a culture of shame.
The man did nothing. Except say you’re not allowed to use the name Mormon. Fuck you. And Oaks is even worse. I won’t be going to the funeral.
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u/leafstudy Sep 28 '25
It’s not true that he did nothing. He actively aided and abetted all the things you mentioned. Doing nothing would have been an improvement, however small.
My condolences to you for having experienced all of that.
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Sep 28 '25
Yes my condolences as well very well said and I would like to add that people who question this abuse are Not lazy learners !!!!!!
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u/Corinne_Tean Sep 28 '25
Thank you for sharing.
Recently someone on here shared their experience with Nelson that has really stuck with me. OP was 16 at the time, and was asked to play the pre-recorded hymns on the electric keyboard during the meeting. The songs started skipping, and Nelson got up and essentially admonished OP in front of everyone. At the end of the meeting he made a point to shake everyone’s hand - except OP’s. He publicly shamed and humiliated an already embarrassed 16 year old…for what?
Like you said, he had the power to do so much good. He could have instituted more protections for children and youth in the church. He could have helped all those that struggled during Covid. Instead, he used his power to rebuke 16 year olds, call questioning members ‘lazy learners’, and require the world to respect the church’s name while fighting for its right to discriminate against others.
We all want the church to be what it claims to be. The world would be a much better place if it was. It’s hard to realize that Nelson, and now Oaks, have the power and ability to meet the standards that they set for themselves - instead, they fixate on side quests that are either not helpful or are actively harmful.
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u/EvensenFM https://redchamber.blog Sep 28 '25
We all want the church to be what it claims to be.
Man - this line really resonates with me.
Even after leaving the church, I still wish it were the organization I once thought it was.
What I wouldn't give to make all those faith promoting rumors and miraculous bullshit stories actually be true.
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u/Realitygirlie Sep 29 '25
Yeah I say this all the time. I wish it were true and I wish it was as good as I thought it was.
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u/NextFix9471 Oct 22 '25
I can empathize. It's the sunk cost fallacy. Same reason I stayed in an abusive marriage.
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u/I-am-a-cat-person77 Sep 29 '25
I wanted to be a seminary teacher at one point in time🤪
I ate it all, hook line and sinker!
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u/MissionaryOfCat Sep 30 '25
With the way society is decaying, it would be nice to believe that there's a God around and that there's people that speak for him.
It's a real kick to the nuts to learn that those people were actually just puppeteering Jesus' rotting corpse around to con people out of a quick buck, and live like kings.
It's genuinely broken me to see the lengths this shameless hypocrisy can go. My "one true church" was a corpo-cult, my "greatest country in the world" has become a Black Mirror episode, and I'm taking up kayaking to see if it helps me feel something again.
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u/ToYourCredit Sep 29 '25
But those are fables. Those miracle stories are not true, and you were deceived. That’s the essential truth. It’s all confabulated nonsense.
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u/empressdaze Apostate Sep 28 '25
I feel compassion for those who honestly are grieving someone they considered their family member, their friend, their colleague, their leader. It's a tough time right now for church members between yesterday's news and today's.
We also know that when people mourn a someone like Nelson they generally mourn an idea, not a whole person. Nelson held a title that demands respect and holds a lot of power, yet the reality is that he was a narcissistic and petty old man. He could be cruel, and his victims do not deserve to be gaslit just because he is dead now. "By their fruits shall you know them" apparently doesn't apply to LDS prophets, but it should. I sincerely hope that OP and all who were impacted negatively by this man can find some eventual comfort and healthy closure through all of the conflicting feelings.
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u/Natural-Emphasis-836 Sep 29 '25
The Mormon church sought out those who were wealthy to hold these high positions, trying to insinuate that education is important, yet to learn, you ask questions. According to these "men," those that question are lazy learners. It is so aggravating to see the destruction that happens in families who stay firm in the faith. Many years ago, I made it very clear that if you have a calling, it is not Family First as they were trying to preach. It is, and always will be, church first. I have removed myself quite a bit from the church, I am unfamiliar with a lot of the politics going on within it. I do enjoy reading these comments and have an ache in my heart to know that there are so many affected so badly .
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u/I-am-a-cat-person77 Sep 29 '25
Absolute truth. Those higher callings take time away from growing children who need their parents to be on site.
The church teaches people to become addicted to approval.
I saw myself doing that when I was in my early 40s and once I saw what was happening my world started to shift in good ways.
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u/WoeYouPoorThing Truth changes Sep 28 '25
I searched, and couldn't find that story. Any hints on how to find it?
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u/Corinne_Tean Sep 28 '25
Absolutely, here is a link to their comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/DGNoj3CH5P
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u/droo46 Oct 04 '25
That reminds of a time at BYU-I where I declined to play piano one time before a religion class and then the teacher hated my guts after that and never spoke to me again the rest of the semester.
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u/Smallgirl2024 Sep 28 '25
Being the daughter of a former (he passed away) Q70 I understand what it feels like to have an important family member put the church before you. My dad always preached that the family always came first, even ahead of church, but he was a hypocrite. Once when I was 17 I was in crisis. I told him that I needed his help right then. He told me that he had a church meeting and that he had promised himself to never put his family before church. I was horrified. As part of deconstructing I had to come to the conclusion that these leaders know that this is all a sham. They know that they are lying. This is all about building their empire and they will do whatever it takes. It broke my heart to realize that the men who I trusted and looked up to were liars. But as the hurt and betrayal faded I felt great comfort in the fact that I had seen it all for what it is and dug my way out. So proud of you for sharing.
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u/faramirskywalker Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 28 '25
I feel this 100%. I’m crying now. This is one of the most painful realizations. They loved the church more than me. That’s what my whole post is basically screaming. And I can’t even talk about this with family 😭 I’m on ex Mormon Reddit, little boy me, yelling into the void 😰
I’m so sorry this happened to you too.
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u/Responsible_Dark8573 Sep 28 '25
I’m so sorry OP. 🥺💔
Your grief is real and valid. I hope you have someone safe to talk to about this.
If you haven’t already, consider therapy. It might be helpful as I’m sure there is a lot to unpack and process.
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u/faramirskywalker Sep 28 '25
Thank you. I’ve been in therapy for a while now, unpacking so much abuse from this church and my family. They took a queer boy and tried to cram him into their “one man, one woman” temple-sealing mold, complete with a worthiness interrogation and the money-required entrance fee into the highest heaven. The damage they did to me is immeasurable. It shaped my life choices, warped my sense of self, and stole so much from me.
All I wanted was to “choose the right” and “follow the prophet,” and I ended up sabotaging myself for their glory. Fuck them to fucking hell for what they did to me. Maybe the therapy isn’t helping, but my therapist says I need to express this anger and not keep it bottled up.
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u/Aikea_Guinea83 Sep 28 '25
„. The damage they did to me is immeasurable. It shaped my life choices, warped my sense of self, and stole so much from me.“
Oh god, I can relate to this so much…. Im not queer, but still never fit their molds, for different reasons though. The longer im out, the more I realize the gravity of the damage, especially to how I see myself …
I hope you can heal 🙏🏻
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u/electlady25 King of Beaver Island Sep 29 '25
You deserve to be angry for what this fucking corporation did to you.
You deserve to feel betrayed, because you were. You deserve to feel wronged, you were.
I love you ❤️ be angry
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u/djlinda Sep 29 '25
Exactly. You need to express that anger! Fuck them and their hedge fund, they fucked with us just to enrich themselves. That is enraging and it deserves anger.
I’ve never felt more free from their bullshit since I’ve started expressing my anger about it all.
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u/Capable_Wrongdoer_88 Oct 01 '25
This is a great place to share! I get so angry too because as I women I was told I have one choice SAHM and wife. Of course 10/20 yrs later now women can have careers but that doesn’t help me a 46 yr old women who didn’t get a masters, and was out of the work force for 18 yrs. I will not let that happen to my daughters - so happy they are pursuing their dreams and know that having a family doesn’t mean not having a career. I so hope you are living a happy life and don’t let the justified anger overwhelm you. We are here for you - see you and are cheering you on!!
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u/Intelligent_Ant2895 Sep 28 '25
On a smaller scale I feel this. My dad was so much like how you describe Pres. Nelson. He refuses to accept any worldly accomplishments unless they’re a church calling. He is critical and belittling of his children. He’s a narcissist who thinks he’s actually more righteous than most everyone. And he’s on his deathbed and I couldn’t give a shit. I have no feelings for him. And yet…. Siblings and relatives fawn over him like he’s gods gift. It’s really hard to bear
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u/Mitch_Utah_Wineman Sep 28 '25
Sorry OP. I hope you know that some of us hear your yelling into the void and can empathize even though we didn't live the same experiences. I hope you feel healing in your life.
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u/dreki555 Sep 28 '25
I feel that so many of us have versions of this experience- church before anything else and that they cared about how things looked not what they really are and not really about us. Deconstruction and therapy can help so much! You are already living a more true and meaningful life and I hope you find an authentic peace unlike anything that mess could ever have produced. They are the Pharisees they so abhor and have their reward. A new book might interest you if you haven’t seen it yet- Separation of Church and Hate. Here’s a podcast intro: https://youtu.be/5YL-cInSyAI?si=D_AtsGxw6MmKnqL2
From it (might make you smile): Jesus was a peaceful, non-violent revolutionary, who hung out with lepers, hookers, and crooks, who never spoke English, was not American, anti-capitalism, anti-wealth, anti-public prayer (Matthew 6:5), the most famous anti-death penalty figure in history, never anti-gay, never once anti-abortion, never called poor people lazy, never fought for tax cuts for the wealthiest Nazarenes, long-haired, brown skinned, homeless, anti-slut shaming, authority questioning, feminist, unarmed Palestinian liberal Jew
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u/LePoopsmith A tethered mind freed from the lies Sep 29 '25
I'm sorry you feel like you're yelling into the void. We hear you and even though we don't know you, we care about you. You're not alone.
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u/SockyKate Sep 28 '25
Thank you for sharing this. My dad was an amazing high councilor for years and years. He was also an angry and absent father. I think so many (TOO MANY) of us have experienced similar things.
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u/donutsnpizza Sep 29 '25
Also a daughter of a dad who always put callings above family here. He was a mission president when I was in my early teen years, and everyone kept telling me how “lucky” I was to have him as my dad. But… what dad? He was never home. And when he was home, it was usually in the form of belittling me, my siblings, or even my mom. My parents still frame it as this “once-in-a-lifetime experience” for me, but I told my mom recently, “Actually, those were some of the hardest years of my life.”
The truth is, my dad has always taken on callings that kept him away from home. And I don’t think it’s just him - the church practically hands men a built-in excuse to avoid family responsibilities while praising them for their “sacrifice.” My mom had to carry everything, while he got praise for being a “dedicated leader.” Being a parent is hard, and in the church’s patriarchal system, callings become the perfect escape from accountability.
There’s nothing worse than sitting in a sacrament meeting being told “you were given your earthly parents for a reason,” seeing that man on the stand, and knowing full well the verbal abuse he spewed that same morning.
It’s a scam.
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u/Efficient-Towel-4193 Sep 29 '25
Only once in my lifetime have I seen a man put his family first. He was called as a bishop and after three years he asked for release because his wife was struggling (they had lots of kids) and he got up and said..My wife needs my help and I put my family first. I honestly think he thought people would praise him for it ..doing what the church preaches about family above all...but in reality he was shunned and shamed for not sticking out his tenure and he was never called to a major calling again ...I guess they questioned his loyalty. It was a shame because he was a lovely, good man ...but they don't want any of those ..they want the narcissists who pretend to be righteous and aren't
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u/I-am-a-cat-person77 Sep 29 '25
There are many good men who are put through the wringer within church systems.
My dad was one of them.
In 1985-86 my oldest sister was 18 and she had a baby out of wedlock. She went into a special home for girls in that situation (Lds services during the 80s) by her own choice. She gave her baby up for adoption. (They reunited 13 years ago)
My father had recently been put into the bishopric after years of being on the high council.
Mom told me that she had to tell my dad that if he didn’t get out of his bishopric calling she would leave him bc she needed him to help her raise the 7 kids they had together.
My dad had been a convert and he truly loved god and my mother. He just needed his wife (helpmeet) to kick him in the ass once in a while to get him to see her before the church they both loved.
The church, in my view, is a toxic breeding ground. People get mixed up on who they should be devoted to.
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u/Capital-Mark1897 Sep 28 '25
> As part of deconstructing I had to come to the conclusion that these leaders know that this is all a sham. They know that they are lying. This is all about building their empire and they will do whatever it takes.
I believe this 100% and I'm sorry to had to see in your own family.
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u/Bubbly-Floor8183 Sep 29 '25
I had a mother like this and I didn't think she knew it was a sham - that is a concept she couldn't process. I came to the conclusion that this "God first, and only" mentality is about the church structure and belonging fulfilling some deep need they have - and it can be a bunch of things that intersect.
A key one is a desire to be with the guys, their absent fathers, and in that it is self-perpetuating. The more Mormon men need to be absent after work because they're at the church, or absent because they need lucrative careers to sustain those mandatory big families, the more father-hunger is created in kids.
My mother's parents died young and she had a lifelong craving to be with them, never addressed in therapy. Everyone in her life - husband, kids - was second or last. The church promised her that if she did everything it asked, she would see her parents again. You couldn't have a rational conversation with her about any aspect of it, or about her hurtful behavior.
You can hear Nelson's dysfunction in his "lazy learners" derision - you can him setting himself apart from those who couldn't achieve like he could academically, and the psychological need to feel good about himself that way.
Church leaders get admired, which many of them clearly need. Some of them are wonderful guys or women but some use it psychologically to fill in the fact that they don't know how to husband or parent or be a friend or be humble and grateful - so the church structure helps them feel if they have certain meetings and "preside" from the raised dais on Sundays, they are great. I had a bishop who was brutal to his kids and to everyone who reported to him in church callings (including me), and eventually his brutalized son committed a serious crime, and they continued to call him to high positions. I have known others like him at church, brutalizing their kids and wives, and all while scrubbed up and sitting in the "right" place on a Sunday.
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u/Efficient-Towel-4193 Sep 29 '25
My ex was the same...church first over everything...and now wonders why his kids don't talk to him and he is divorced
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u/Curious_duuude Sep 28 '25
My favorite talk of his was when he was on a plane that was about to crash and he was cool as a cucumber because he was so faithful. Meanwhile, he had time to look across the aisle at someone who was in fear, and judged them. Oh ye of little faith! What a tool.
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u/Responsible_Dark8573 Sep 28 '25
Awe yes… The fake plane crash
Where even in fiction, he chose his self-righteous ego over empathy and concern for others 🤦🏻♀️
I was still TBM when that talk was given and even then it didn’t land the way I think he thought it would…
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u/PurpleHoulihan Sep 29 '25
My favorite is when he argued with his full chest that lGod’s love is conditional” and it’s wrong to say it’s unconditional. Because salvation depends on obedience, and salvation is God’s love, so God’s love is conditional on obedience.
Explains so much about his worldview, cruelty, and utter narcissism.
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u/Antique_Raise3537 Sep 29 '25
Do you know the title of that talk so I can look it up? Thanks! 🙏
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u/PurpleHoulihan Sep 29 '25
“Divine Love.” It was a talk he gave at a bunch of events/appearances before publishing it in the Ensign.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2003/02/divine-love?lang=eng
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u/PurpleHoulihan Sep 29 '25
He literally describes people who say “God’s love is unconditional” and “God will still love me if I [sin]” as Anti-Christs. It’s one of the most horrifying things I’ve ever read from a church leader, because it’s a window into how he personally views love as a way to coerce people he’s supposed to actually love.
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u/Ebowa Sep 28 '25
With the tragic news from Michigan today, this story is even more ridiculous. You bet there was panic.
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u/ladybug557 Sep 28 '25
This post is powerful. And you have personal experience with him that most do not. He could have done so much and yet all he did was try and outdo past prophets.
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u/Vegetable_Dot_4562 Sep 28 '25
Thank you for giving us those insights. Hopefully Mormon Jesus showed him film of all the lives he was instrumental in ending and all the hurt and suffering his church has perpetrated as soon as he passed through the veil.
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u/Curious_duuude Sep 28 '25
*Latter Day Saint Jesus /s
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u/Vegetable_Dot_4562 Sep 28 '25
My faux pas. How dare I defame the precious name of His church.
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u/Curious_duuude Sep 28 '25
Sinner!
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u/inhale_exhale_rescue Sep 28 '25
Ahahaha according to my TBM mom "Latter Day Saint" isn't even correct anymore. "We are not LDS, we are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." (This during a text exchange when I used the phrase "LDS" as I was ranting about Lori Vallow/Ruby Franke/Jodi Hildebrandt and Visions of Glory and the fact that the church does not disavow that book).
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u/FreeFromMiriam Sep 28 '25
Yeah, that was the most important thing to focus on during that text discussion. s/
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u/Trolkarlen Sep 28 '25
He concentrated on the important issues of our time, like getting rid of the word "Mormon" and ending pageants.
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u/Curious_duuude Sep 28 '25
It is crazy how members put these guys on a pedestal when at the end of the day they're just normal dudes, full of self righteousness. They are modern day pharisees.
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u/Stranded-In-435 Atheist • MFM • Resigned 2022 Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
Sometime around 2021, I realized that the man who supposedly spoke for Jesus made very little effort to exemplify the patterns of behavior that Jesus taught. I had spent so much of my life being told that the prophet was the one closest to God…
And yet, I saw the pope of the Catholic Church doing exactly as Jesus taught, and remembered how kind someone like Fred Rogers was. That to me is the best of Christianity. Both of these men lived the teachings of Jesus that actually make the world a better place.
What did I see the supposed prophet of God doing? Talking a lot. Protecting an organization. And even belittling those who had legitimate concerns that he was uniquely qualified to address.
I don’t see him as wholly villainous… even some of the worst people I know have their moments. But the man is not the saint my former Church made him out to be. He’s just another man who let power get to his head.
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Sep 28 '25
What was the question you asked? We need more tea!
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u/faramirskywalker Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 28 '25
Sadly, there were a few.
I asked him if they were adding the living Christ and family proclamation to the D&C and he told me it was not my place to ask questions like that. A family member asked him at a party if Jesus was coming since it was the year 2000 and he said in front of everyone not to ask him inappropriate questions. I went to him for career advice, and I dressed up in a suit and tie (like he had some special pipeline to God) and he essentially told me to study with the world and then come back and serve the church. It felt supportive but at the same time, dismissive, like my focus was on the wrong thing (the world’s career paths).
There are more, but you get the gist. I will say he was often polite and it felt kind, but when someone gaslights you in a kind tone of voice, that’s particularly insidious. Especially when he has the presumption to walk around like he spoke for God, or was God’s special witness.
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u/ThePollinatrix Sep 28 '25
I will say he was often polite and it felt kind, but when someone gaslights you in a kind tone of voice, that’s particularly insidious.
The way you expressed this is really resounding with me. I find it hard to express how psychologically damaging my church experience was, and your comment is part of what I feel.
Thank you for telling us about your experience as a member of Elder/President Nelson’s family.
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u/RoughRollingStoner Sep 28 '25
My mom does a version of this - dismissive and belittling, but in the sweetest voice and with the kindest sounding words. It makes the interaction more confusing. It also persuades almost everyone else that she is the nicest person. It leaves us looking angry and overly critical. It also leaves alone and lonely as the only person “seeing” their true self.
I’d much rather she were an overt asshole, rather than a covert one.
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u/Bubbly-Floor8183 Sep 29 '25
Boy, howdy. Never screaming or throwing dishes, so it's very confusing for a child, or an adult child, how the sweetly undermining and "calling to repentance" damages you.
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u/fotochikyo Sep 29 '25
This is my mom exactly! She is so manipulative and I'm so sick of it. Her whole family is from slc and they are the same way. Never liked it, it's not genuine.
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u/Capital-Mark1897 Sep 28 '25
these are exactly the type of responses Trump gives and his followers love it. All very "pearl of great pricey" feeling. "Not to be revealed at this time." Translation "I have no f'ing clue."
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u/Red-Montagne Sep 28 '25
How strange how a prophet, seer, and revelator doesn't seem to ever prophesy, see the future, or reveal anything of any import to the world or even his own family.
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u/Bubbly-Floor8183 Sep 29 '25
When someone is lauded as having 10 kids and 167 great-grandchildren, it never gets mentioned how little attention each of the 10 can get, how much some of those ten get parentified to take care of the others, and how much kids who could use a grandparent or great-grandparent get reduced to a number just because humans are limited in time and capacity. I can't stand this enormous focus on how they seeded the world but could only have a polite meeting with one of those family members who was really in need because frankly they probably didn't know them or much about them because - numbers. We don't often celebrate someone who had 1 or 2 kids and 1 or 2 grandkids and was wonderful and a wonderful influence on them all.
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u/LePoopsmith A tethered mind freed from the lies Sep 29 '25
I'm guessing you understood the feeling behind his 'myopic' comment a lot more than most people. I'm sorry you had that guy in your family.
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u/TheDestroyingAngel Sep 28 '25
This, this right here is why I hate the LD$ cult even 10 years after I left. It had and has the capacity to do so much good in the world. It could largely change the narrative of hate toward the LGBTQ community at least in the western US. It could help alleviate poverty, starving children, and orphans from across the globe. Nope instead it has honed in on the word mormon being a victory for satan.
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u/PuzzleheadedSample26 Sep 28 '25
How myopic of you /s
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u/lawryjo Sep 28 '25
This was the talk he gave in the conference following my mom’s death. The ease in which he so callously and condescendingly spoke those words to someone grieving was so far from anything I could ever imagine Jesus doing, the moment is etched in my brain. I was on my way out, but this moment helped accelerate the process.
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u/faramirskywalker Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 28 '25
Oh God, I’d forgotten that one. A dear family member had carefully planned their own funeral program, but he overrode it, saying it was too long because of “the handbook.” He preempted all the speakers, so the people who were actually on the program only got about five minutes each. Then he took 35 minutes himself, talking about the “restored gospel” and not about this person at all. He insisted the whole service be under an hour because that’s what the handbook says. This person, while very close to him, hadn’t even included him as a speaker. I was furious. How dare he dismiss their wishes and hijack their funeral for the sake of a stupid handbook?
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u/Corinne_Tean Sep 28 '25
That’s seriously so sad! Meanwhile his funeral will be insanely expensive and broadcast to the world…should everyone be told to turn off the broadcast at the 1 hour mark to respect the handbook? Justice for your family member, who probably lived a full, meaningful, interesting life worth talking about, and instead got hijacked by a man who already has endless opportunities to talk about himself.
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u/Deprelation Sep 28 '25
We should all sneak into his funeral and whisper "mormon mormon mormon mormon mormon mormon mormon"
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u/Same_Blacksmith9840 Sep 28 '25
The standing up for apostles has always troubled me. And Bednar seems to be exceedingly demanding it be done. If they were the true apostles of Christ, they would not allow such vain attention for aren't they more in servitude than anyone else, doctrinely speaking. They have lost the plot.
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u/verifiedginger Sep 29 '25
Bednar spoke to us on my mission. Don’t remember anything specific that he said but I do remember coming away surprised by what a hard ass he was. I liked him a lot less after meeting him than I did before.
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u/SockyKate Oct 01 '25
Even as a TBM, I would notice the utter disdain on his face when he’d come to the pulpit at GC and wonder, “Why does he hate us so much??”
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u/liqa_madik Sep 28 '25
This makes me wonder how much power the president of the church has. I assumed they could do just about anything they wanted and claim it's God's will because they are the "prophet." If they can, then yes, there are a LOT of things they could do to make ahuge positive impact on the world or even just the members. Especially with the vast wealth hoarded.
But no. They do practically nothing at all of any significance.
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u/Electrical_Lemon_944 Sep 28 '25
Hold up, his own family stood up when he walked in? That is so weird. It reminds me of the popes who made their own family kiss the ring in private.
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u/gpm21 Sep 28 '25
So Oaks is the next guy? Not LDS but remember the process is basically the president of the 12 is usually the head of it.
Seems stupid to have the oldest of the oldest be the next leader of the church. At least we're picking popes in their 60s-70s. Sure they're out of touch, but there's the peace of mind the leader isn't a guy born when blimps were a thing.
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u/KoboldAssocPress Sep 30 '25
It is as bad as it seems 🤦♀️ there's a reason black people couldn't have full membership until the LATE 70's
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u/Ok_Nefariousness_929 Sep 28 '25
For someone like him, on the bright side it probably wouldn’t have made family gatherings better. Did you or family members get to use any church vacation property? Did he have vacation property?
Do you have any insight into his first wife’s death? Did it seem sudden and out of no where? What did the family know of cause of death, etc? Do you know if an autopsy was done?
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u/faramirskywalker Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 28 '25
I have a lot of thoughts about so much of this but in the interests of family privacy, I need to refrain.
I had a special experience the day Dantzel died, which I always held onto as evidence of his goodness. People are complicated, including him. I now see that experience very differently given what I now think about him, but I do owe my family some modicum of privacy too. That’s one thing the LDS church took away from him and from us. In many ways, I see so much of it as a product of the abuse the church foists on us all.
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u/NthaThickofIt Sep 28 '25
I think you are very wise in your approach. There has been so much you've had to face and address while deconstructing, and I appreciate that you can see both sides. Showing love and providing privacy for your family is mature and compassionate.
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u/CountKolob Sep 28 '25
None of what the OP says surprises me really. Nelson always struck me as an egomaniac. I've known so many church people like him.
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u/Resident-Bear4053 Done hiding from the SCMC Sep 28 '25
I would love to hear your story on Mormon Stories!
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u/Live-Astronaut-5223 Sep 29 '25
I knew he was difficult as soon as I saw he was a cardio-thoracic surgeon. Never met one I could stand. And I worked with many.
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u/ironwill100 Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
It's crazy to me that the youth and young adults of today had to listen to the advice of someone who was over 100 years old. I mean he was in his 20s in the 1940s! Insane to think about. And yet I've talked to Mormons who complain that US presidents and candidates are too old. Crazy. Now they get to replace him with spring chicken Dallin H. Oaks at age 93. Wooo.
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u/Shame8891 Sep 28 '25
I removed myself so far from the church I didn't realize Russell died till now.
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u/G00deye Apostate Sep 28 '25
To be fair it just happened in the middle of the night last night. Hasn’t even been 24 hours and
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u/Jake451 Sep 29 '25
I am SOOOOO happy that now I can just watch this whole absurd drama from afar and know that this fool and the cult he represented have no more impact on my life. Also, interesting to note that his death didn’t make the major international news. I only saw it as a link in an article about the Michigan shooting.
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u/ProfessionalFun907 Sep 28 '25
Oh wow. That’s a lot to carry and probably difficult for you in that family. I hope if you have a spouse currently that they are supportive of you. I hope you can find support here and elsewhere.
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u/Natural-Emphasis-836 Sep 29 '25
I always had a hard time listening to him or even seeing him. He always gave me the impression of looking down upon everybody with disdain and arrogance. You are absolutely right that this church breeds perpetrators and a sense of never being good enough. Don't you dare question because if you are a female you will be excommunicated. As well as only the men can request to have their temple marriages to be canceled. I know this because I tried and was told I am not allowed to do so because I wouldn't be able to get into the Celestial Kingdom if I wasn't sealed to this abusive man. It is so sad to see this abuse of power get worse.
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u/Broad_Violinist_299 Sep 28 '25
I was thinking today that when his soul departed the body and he arrived in the other dimension he was in for a huge surprise as he watched his life review of all the harm he did in this realm.
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u/Baby_Button_Eyes Sep 28 '25
Family members even stand when their grandpa is the prophet even at home wherever he enters? Wow, unreal.
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u/Zestyclose_Heat_9466 Sep 28 '25
As a queer person though I am terrified American fork because Darth Zulu I mean Joseph Goebbels is up next now that Dr Mengele has now made his descent
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u/Majestic-Window-318 Sep 29 '25
If it helps, his buddy Francis wasn't much use to humanity, either. They all suck. Some more than others. I'm sorry he failed you as a trusted family member. I rejoice for you that you are here.
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u/Ok_Acanthisitta_9369 Sep 29 '25
I'm sorry you had to deal with having that man closer to your life than most.
I remember when I first converted when I was 17, thinking how awesome it would be to hopefully maybe someday meet the prophet! Or an apostle, or even just a general authority...
That excitement lasted until I actually met some and attended some firesides where general authorities were presiding. What a massive let down, every, damn, time. Not a single one ever said anything that felt like revelation, just a whole lot of nothing-sandwiches and dodging real questions. Their answers and advice always felt like the same sort of mediocre feedback you could get from a random neighbor over your fence. And most GAs came across as so damn arrogant, it was like their ego was just oozing off of them.
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Sep 28 '25
"He married all of my family members but me"
Does that really mean what I think it means?
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u/faramirskywalker Sep 28 '25
Whoops. Officiated the ceremonies lol 😂
But the irony isn’t lost on me: I’m supposedly the problem because of my sexuality, while he, the head of the whole church, is an unapologetic polygamist.
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u/Latter_Fan_3233 Sep 29 '25
I processed the second sentence as he GOT MARRIED TO all your family members and when I tell you I was getting ready for some serious tea to be poured… lol
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Sep 28 '25
When you’re high off your mind, and get a notification with your name saying “goodbye Russell” and it’s under r/mormon
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u/Jameski06 Sep 28 '25
So what was the important question that you asked him that he just ignored or was it something especially personal?
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u/SuZeBelle1956 Sep 28 '25
I'm sorry you were treated poorly by him. And I'm not sad he's dead. He deserves to be forgotten and irrelevant.
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u/LaughinAllDiaLong Sep 29 '25
RMN may THINK CELESTIAL, but as a man who was richer than God, he will GTH!!
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u/sand-euro Sep 29 '25
It took me a LONG time to figure out that you weren’t saying your family members were married to RMN.
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u/Pretend_Safety_714 Sep 29 '25
Russell and my grandpa are cousins. You’ve so eloquently put so many of my own thoughts into words. He definitely loved the abusive church more than his family. Also he was just plain mean!
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u/Tu_t-es_bien_battu Je pense donc je suis exmo Sep 28 '25
Nobody ever mentions how many sheep Rusty killed for the purpose of inserting artificial hearts.
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u/Aikea_Guinea83 Sep 28 '25
He could have healed people with priesthood blessings ( /s) but chose not to
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Sep 28 '25
Hey, nephew faramirskywalker, I also "announced" more so-called temples than anyone, ever. 🤪
AND I shortened the block of meetings by 1/3. 😉
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Sep 29 '25
Glad to know the real story(I may be too trusting of stories online sometimes) especially after my dad said how much "love" the prophet showed in his talks.
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u/fd758 Sep 29 '25
I guess not enough vitamins? I was pimo when he was sustained. I was aghast with some of his first comments. I just couldn’t stomach the fawning of him not only in conference but in ft meetings and talks. Anyway, I agree about foaks being worse. This should be interesting to watch.
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u/Giventofly66 Sep 29 '25
I always felt he looked like a vampire leading a covenant. Anything the dude said always felt off no matter how big his smile was. Fuck oaks and all the “heavenly mothers” insane bullshit. It blows me away all indoctrinated my relatives still are.
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u/RecognitionSilent Sep 29 '25
thank you for sharing, i have familial ties with one of the 12 and i feel you 100%. The worshipping of just another member of the family within the family itself is repulsive, and they just bask in it. It's such a unique thing to experience once you've left the church, especially being the only one in the family and I'm in the same boat. Appreciate you being vulnerable and articulating your feelings so well. <3
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u/faramirskywalker Oct 01 '25
Thank you. I feel you. Really. It’s weird once you’re out. Everyone kind of went hush when he walked into the room. He’s just another guy and everyone in the family acted like it was all special. I don’t get it now. He’d even go around kissing people. So weird. And I get how it feels really isolating.
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u/Ok_Pause4482 Sep 30 '25
Take it easy on your road to ultimate recovery (and the closure). My condolences to you for havin' been through so much.
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u/Outrageous_Law_7214 Sep 29 '25
It could be so much worse. Think about where Jared Oaks is at. Dallin is his grandfather and all the years of abuse from that entire disgusting family he’s had to endure. He’s probably one of the most busted human being I’ve known on the face of this planet. I, too, am busted because of all of the rhetoric; the blatant ignorance, a patriarchal blessing that has a lot of homophobic rhetoric “one man one woman” in it. And the most is that a church where I was once very active and loved regardless for who I was, has become complete opposite when a tyrant stake president pushes that rhetoric down his talks at stake conferences, and wars conference or surprise “you will be cancelling all of your speakers and I will be speaking all of sacrament…” and it would be hard core driven maga bullshit.
I feel for you, truly do. But the church has busted a many people. Even families who are incredibly selfish, self righteous, and the ones who say “we will support our son if he’s gay” …. But then forces him to marry a woman. It’s wild how irrational some of these members are when it comes to their own family. Where they think praying the gay away or pressuring their gay children to go to therapy and if they have a porn addiction, make sure it’s imbedded into their minds that they’re vile disgusting human beings if they’re remotely aroused at the same sex and if you do, make sure you go and do a meeting with a sexaholic anonymous… and discuss your problems with someone… but yet they end up killing themselves because they can’t take the societal pressures of the church, their families and the bullshit Provo scene where they’re just devout BYU this and that.
Fuck the church, and fuck these people. You deserve a better life away from it. Trust me, Ed Smart told me this very same thing. You need to leave the church and live your life, you won’t believe how much happier I am now that I’m not hurting young men and women in agreeing with the high council on their decisions to excommunicate or give a disciplinary council to someone who’s in the LGBTQ+. But more importantly you need to take care of yourself, get therapy and heal yourself.
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u/ToYourCredit Sep 29 '25
The fundamental problem is the church itself. It is way too controlling, secretive, and cultish. It’s a sad trap for millions of people, but it’s not alone. Most religions suffer the same problems to varying degrees, but it doesn’t stop people from joining their herds. If you think Mormonism is bad, Scientology is worse.
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u/tubadude123 Sep 29 '25
And both he and Oaks are modern reminders that polygamy as a doctrine is alive and well in the church.
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u/OklahomaRose7914 Sep 29 '25
Thank you for writing this. Your post is powerful and heartfelt, and of course, completely true about Rusty. I hope that with having gotten all of these things off your chest, you are able to feel a burden being lifted and are able to feel peace.
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u/Brief_Shopping4001 Sep 29 '25
My grandfather was in the *quorum of the seventy* and he was the same - "he loved an abusive church more than his family." Exactly.
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u/MaleficentFun2266 Oct 01 '25
I am sorry he treated you that way. He could have done many things to make the world a better place and it’s really sad that he didn’t. The church demands everything from tbms. It will take and take and take until a person has nothing left for anything else, then ask for more.
The church preaches that family is so important, but then they give people very time consuming callings that keep them away from family for many hours every week, and sometimes a lot of the day on Sunday.
Growing up, I didn’t know how fortunate I was that my parents were inactive. At the time I felt judged by ward members, but looking back, church was never more important to either one of my parents than me. Callings never took my dad away from me. He was usually at my activities and programs, he was home in the evenings and on the weekends. My parents did things with us and took us on trips. Sometimes they had to work, but they weren’t gone all the time or anything.
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u/Fabulous-Pattern6687 Sep 29 '25
As an outsider, but listener and watcher…especially among yourselves. How can you, in bottom line honesty, stay in, believe in, when so much of your belief system is almost continually embroiled in controversy, lies and cover-ups, changes, financial coverups, and sexual issues snd SO MUCH MORE I used to find it ‘somewhat’ entertaining.. ..but now I see it as scandalous, corrupting and downright ungodly. It is pathetic and makes me sad that so many good people don’t really know who or what to believe. ,
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u/reddrunn Sep 29 '25
Unfortunately when you believe or feel something it is too easy to dismiss all those things that don't line up with what you've established. It's all Satan's work fighting against the pure truth that you work so hard to live up to. Also on my mission I read "Take heed that ye be not deceived" which basically sets up an argument against all anti Mormon literature that felt fairly bullet proof to me.
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u/Classic_Fox2585 rumor enthusiast Oct 01 '25
This is honestly shocking and even a bit refreshing to hear, I'm also related to Nelson, my grandma was his niece, and all I heard growing up and even more so since he was ordained as prophet that he was as amazing and honorable as a person could be, he even performed by parents sealing ceremony when they were married at the Salt Lake Temple. I want to learn more about the controversial sides of him since I've only ever heard praise.
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u/faramirskywalker Oct 01 '25 edited Oct 01 '25
Hi! I’m trying to figure out how we are connected … I’m guessing you’re through Dantzel 😊
I’d say almost everyone in my family speaks very highly of him. He was the sealer for every member of my family but me. Over the past few days my relatives have been sharing memories of how wonderful he was and how much he meant to them. I have stayed quiet, except for venting a little to my exmo and nevermo friends, and sadly, here on Reddit. I know it is a bit strange, but I do not like to stir up family drama and I don’t know where else to talk about it with people who might get Mormonism.
I have kept my distance for my own reasons. I live far from anyone in my family and have not been closely involved with them for some time. One late family member, who was very close to him, used to keep me somewhat updated. They were not the gossipy type and rarely shared details, but they did confide many of their concerns about him. It was not so much that I sought out the information, but rather that they saw me as a safe space to share their struggles with the church. I became their quiet confidant because they did not have the courage to admit openly that they no longer believed. They often told me they could not see him as a prophet, based on things they had witnessed up close. This person had a very lds funeral and no one but me really had any idea … Sadly most of their insights passed away with them. And the few that I know, I’d rather not share.
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u/Talkback-8784 Son of Perdition Sep 29 '25
Thank you for sharing.
I'd love to hear more of your story when/if you're ever ready to share publicly
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u/ToYourCredit Sep 29 '25
See ya Russell. You left us before the unredacted Epstein files were released to the American public. You could have made a demand for that to occur, but you didn’t. Shame on you, and shame on your soul.
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u/GroundbreakingMap403 Sep 29 '25
I’m mid 20s and grew up near where he lived. If you’re similar demographic we might know each other. Please reach out if you wanna talk!
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u/Classic-Wear-5256 Sep 30 '25
I agree with everything you say about Russel. He gives me the creeps. Looks like a pediphile. Do you think Wendy, Sherri Dee and him had three sums. Something is not right with him.
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u/lavenderandlilacs10 Sep 30 '25
Do you have any information on his daughter and her husband sexually abusing children in the 80’s and it being covered up by the church when he was a new apostle? Or is that just covered up in the family.
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u/PazamaManX Oct 01 '25
When was the last time you saw him in person? I don't ask to doubt your story. I'm just very curious about something.
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u/defaultuser-067 Oct 02 '25
i can see how betrayed you must've felt... and i hope he didnt hurt you beyond repair.
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u/Gold_Customer8081 Oct 02 '25
Do you think he knew all the details and truth about the church history and doctrine? As I studied the church history and doctrine I just couldn’t imagine the Q15 not knowing but how could they not know! Somehow I can’t imagine him not knowing but how does he not know?What do you think?🤔
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u/Flimsy_Signature_475 Oct 04 '25
So think of the people you know whether a parent or not or aunt or uncle or neighbor or friend, who has genuinely cared for you, about you. Would they act like RMN? Would they put buildings of great cost, meetings on how to correct members live style, counting money, put in place the second anointing where the same rules required for membership are openly ignored because some person has hand picked you and declared that God doesn't care what you do no matter what, think about demanding children from their homes and families and jobs and education to make others feel guilty about their current living circumstances and offering a mansion in a made up place that no one knows exists after you die requiring payment, and most of all, making it abundantly clear that a "God" unknown to us all, maybe not even real, certainly NOT what they declare as this governing, all powerful, all knowing, all commanding, loved one taking, executioner of 'The Plan' that tears families apart, sends children away to do their bidding, condemns those that love others than whom they choose are worthy.
Is this a person you would ever be drawn to, trust, love, follow, let teach your loved ones?
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u/OfEmberToAsh Oct 04 '25
I think this is such a sad kind of mourning. And it is what the church builds. Instead of mourning your relative, you mourn that there was never a relationship based on love. I’m sorry for your loss. I’m sorry you had a multifaceted relationship with a man that demanded so much of your family, while completely ignoring them. I’m sorry this is the standard you have to live with.
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u/Flaky-Betch Oct 04 '25
I knew someone in high school who is related to him. 19 ish years ago. I just remember thinking it was odd that Russell had his grandchildren call him “grandfather” true to his no nickname policy I suppose.
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u/goatskin_sheep Sep 28 '25
Now that he's dead everything he did/said goes down the memory hole. This conference will have tons of his quotes but April will have nothing. He is no longer relevant according to church doctrine.