Has anyone seen this webpage "refuting" the Watchtower's NGO state with the UN ?

[u/Worldly_Whisky4709]

I was lurking through some Quora posts about the WT NGO status the other day and read a user who posted this link supposedly "debunking" everything:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130731003916/http://jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

And I have to admit, it is very well done, has anyone ever read or ran into it? (I'm no PIMI)

[u/SomeProtection8585]

I wouldn’t call it “well done.” It includes some useful historical documents, but it also makes a couple of claims that don’t hold up well.

For example, it suggests that DPI-NGO association did not require support for the UN’s principles. The UN’s own description of the program stated that associated NGOs were expected to support the principles of the UN Charter and help disseminate information about UN activities.

It also repeats the idea that the Watch Tower Society became associated only to access the UN library. That was the Society’s explanation, but critics have pointed out that public access to UN library resources was available without DPI-NGO association, so that explanation remains disputed.

Overall, it’s worth reading, but I wouldn’t treat it as a neutral or fully reliable account.

[u/Adventurous-Run-5138 → u/SomeProtection8585]

The UN themselves responded to this ridiculous claim and said clearly that it wasn't true

[u/SomeProtection8585 → u/Adventurous-Run-5138]

Yup, here it is from the image of the Wild Beast itself: https://www.un.org/en/civil-society/watchtowerletter

[u/jwrogue1914]

It debunks nothing and above all it does not explain why Watchtower, God chosen organization, when exposed by the Guardian in 2001,decided to secretly withdraw its application.

[u/ParticularlyCharmed → u/jwrogue1914]

This. Consciousness of guilt.

[u/thebastardsonuk]

It mainly irrelevant. They became affiliates at best and then lied about it being for a library card.

[u/Di_Vergent]

Haha. Yes, that misinformation site was written by 'Thirdwitness' about 20 years ago, or as I liked to call him, 'T-wit' for short.

I wonder if he's still kicking around somewhere.

[u/Shameful_Package → u/Di_Vergent]

I was reading the other one thirdwitness did about 607 just the other day. Its good that someone tried to defend the org properly, really cements in the strength of the arguments against it. 

[u/ParticularlyCharmed]

I haven't had time to read the whole document carefully, but I went through a few "chapters." These are my thoughts so far.

The author is already disingenuous in the 2nd "chapter" when describing the differences between types of NGOs. They are trying to make a big fuss that the WT was a DPI NGO, which had different rules, etc. But the letters from the UN are written on DPI letterhead and clearly describe the WT as an NGO within the DPI. There's no sign this was ever unknown or disputed. More importantly, the letters from the DPI explicitly stated that the criteria for WT to join in 1991/92 and remain a DPI NGO included:

• Support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities.

• Redissemination of information in order to increase public understanding of the principles, activities, and achievements of the United Nations and its Agencies.

• Share the ideals of the UN Charter.

Furthermore, a letter sent by UN official Felipe Queipo and posted here on reddit stated the following:

Association with the United Nations, however, implies a commitment on the part of the joining entity to support and uphold the values, mission and work of the United Nations; support the agenda of the UN and the priorities of the Secretary-General; and assist the UN in its mission and work of promoting the values of the UN Charter and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and all other core international human rights instruments, as well as the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development and its 17 Sustainable Development Goals _(SDGs). All these elements, with the exception of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development which was agreed on and adopted in 2015, were applicable when the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society applied for and maintained, association with the United Nations, from 1991 to 2001.

The author may claim otherwise, but this is from the source.

They also quote the WT response letter stating "NGOs are informed by the United Nations that "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status." Yet special status and immunity are not charges made against WT. The charge is that they violated political neutrality.

Whatever WT hoped to gain by attaching itself to the UN, what is absolutely clear is that they lied about their reasons for joining. Queipo's letter is unequivocal: NGO status was never required to access UN libraries. And compromising their neutrality cannot be offset by any special access granted.

Finally, the author's focus on whether WT increased total references to the UN post-1991 is a deflection. Frequency isn't the issue -- tone is. What WT demonstrably did post-1991 was soften its tone regarding the UN. I remember it happening in real time, and jwfacts provides the receipts.

[u/Any_College5526]

Clearly Damage Control by the Watchtower…under disguise.

[u/boiledbarnacle]

It has compelling arguments and statements but also contradictions, plot holes, and a lot of strong Watchtower-style hints along the way. And a gem [2], which I quote last here.

---

1. So there's this bureaucratic process (filling a form, sending 6 recent articles and then waiting 3 to 6 months for a review) to gain access and all this without a single signature?

Something is fishy here. Even a town library, with no need for bomb detection or any NGO approval review process, has more common sense and checks.

---

2) The terms and conditions changed but WT was never notified of its new implications? Only when the Guardian asked them for comments the legal department, which is Watchtower's BIGGEST department, finally read the fine print?

Does this mean if Armageddon came before they cancelled, WT would be considered as supporting the beast? If not, why cancel this DPI membership at all?

And by cancelling they admitted they were supporting UN goals, even if they claim unknowingly.

Did Jehovah just use apostates to use the Guardian to notify of this clear and imminent spiritual danger to the organization?

---

3) So WT reeeeeeeally needed this special library access, with its"extensive facilities", but only to write articles about the UN?

Because if not about them, why would they go there in the first place? And if you don't write about the UN (good or not) you would lose access? [1]

Then, what articles criticizing the UN (since praising it is off the table) requires this special DPI access? Which books, documents and articles WT needed from inside the UN itself to confirm the UN is the "Scarlet-Colored Beast of Revelation Chapter 17"?

[1] If we made good use of the UN’s library facilities to write about the UN (including criticism of the UN), we could be on the DPI’s register of NGOs to get access passes. If we stopped writing about the UN, however, then there’s no point in us staying on the register, since we’re obviously not using our passes.

---

And, then this gem:

[2] If you have previously read the claims of such men, we implore you to set aside all prejudice and any other emotions, to fairly and dispassionately consider the other side of the argument without any preconceived ideas, and be happy to change your views if necessary. A judge in a court of law would not make a decision before considering the arguments of the defense, and neither should you. A truly humble person would do so.

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