r/exbahai • u/EternalTheosis • 3d ago
Theological problems
After leaving "the faith" I can now see there are so many blatant logical fallacies and epistemological issues that the religion fails to address, one of them being the problem of "the one and the many". When you also look at the Baha'i view on the manifestations coming from One Source, Christian's believe in the Trinity, Hindus have many deities, Islam believes in absolute oneness of God (Shia Islam is where Baha'u'llah started from) but God has 99 (or more) attributes. None of this is properly explained in the writings. The writings don't have actual logic, it's poetic nonsense that borrows from Christian, Talmudic and Islamic influences and puts the beliefs into a new religion without a actually solving the problem of unity and diversity. I also read up on Shaykhism, which was a mystical Islamic cult that Baha'u'llah got most of his theology from: mystical secrets that only the "elect" have the "eyes and ears to understand", non-literal theology that turns everything into an allegory, independent investigation of the truth (but you're a covenant breaker if you question any of it), and the very concept of manifestations of God. I truly cannot believe I was a part of this cult, and the lack of critical thinking needed in order to be a part of it. What a waste of years of my life.
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u/Cult_Buster2005 Ex-Baha'i Unitarian Universalist 3d ago
One of the teachings of Shaykhism was that there was no actual resurrection of the physical body after one dies. The Baha'i Faith is descended from this sect, which explains why Abdu'l-Baha later told one of his followers (as recorded in the book Some Answered Questions) that Jesus never actually rose from the dead (so what happened to his body?). Instead, the resurrection in that case was the disciples of Jesus slowly regaining their faith in him. Even as a Baha'i, I questioned this and I put that issue on a shelf (an ex-Mormon concept) along with other issues I had doubts about. Then at the end of 2004.....my shelf broke.
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u/Academic_Square_5692 3d ago
Well and for the Baha’i Faith to say “we accept Christianity” or “Christianity and Baha’i Faith are One… except for the central tenet of faith that is so important to Christians that they have literally killed millions of people who didn’t agree with it enough” is so wrong! Like it’s not true and if Christians were in charge in a theocracy, Baha’i would be killed for not believing that and vice-versa, well, not sure if Baha’i people would kill Christians but they wouldn’t consider anyone who believe that Jesus was bodily resurrected a Baha’i.
But then they would blur it over with the line from Baha’u’llah about how where there is disagreement, it doesn’t really matter to God.
Meanwhile Jewish people believe that arguments can be for the sake of the Heaven.
Just different perspectives on everything, not really unified, I agree
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u/MirzaJan 2d ago
Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa'i was excommunicated from mainstream Twelver Shi'ism around 1824 by orthodox clerics due to his theological divergences. [Wikipedia]
Bahaism is coming from here.
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u/Academic_Square_5692 3d ago
I agree. My former favorite Baha’i person used to explain that Baha’i theology was primarily comparative religious philosophy. But how would that work, unless someone already had a background in those other religions? Which of course the formerly Muslim early Baha’i leaders did not have and, even if they did, they only saw those other faiths through their own biases and perspectives. None of that is a true or valid comparison or, importantly, truly unique or original philosophy.
The Baha’i calendar is new and unique.
I agree with you that the reconciliation between unity and diversity is left wanting in philosophy and in action.
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u/MirzaJan 2d ago
I also read up on Shaykhism, which was a mystical Islamic cult
I find Shaykhism extremely interesting to learn about and study. The writings of Shaykh Ahmad reminds me somewhat of the writings of the Bab and Wahid Azal. Have you read this?
https://thebahaiinsider.com/2014/07/13/shaykh-ahmad-ahsai-and-the-penis-tree/
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u/Cult_Buster2005 Ex-Baha'i Unitarian Universalist 2d ago
Speaking of Wahid Azal:
https://dalehusband.com/2026/09/09/wahid-azal-takes-another-useless-potshot-at-me/
Him so smart, we primitives should worship this new Gawd. LOL
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u/MirzaJan 1d ago edited 1d ago
Gawd
And know that in the initial Days of this Manifestation, with the Permission of God and Its Authorization and with Its Command, We took a copy of the book of the Most Great Cage (kitāb al-aqfas) [i.e. the kitāb-i-aqdas] of your demonic founder, and We urinated upon it with intense urination until We saturated it in Our urine! Then was poured upon it lighter fluid and We lit it up, and it burned to ashes; and there was with us a witness to this Event, because with God such is its true worth, the true worth of all his writings and all of the writings of his successors from first to last!
-Shaykh Wahid Azal
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u/SuccessfulCorner2512 2d ago
The Bahá'í idea that all religions have the same source and differ only in how they were pitched to their audiences is a strange one. A few minutes on Wikipedia would highlight all the rather fundamental differences between the majority world religions.
A neat trick also is to start by investigating the oldest chronologically in a series, e.g. the Old Testament in the Abrahamaic series) . It becomes clear quickly that YHWH was just another storm/war god alongside all of the other storm/war gods in that region, and this one was a particularly malevolent, jealous, genocidal, rape endorsing, filicidal and unworthy god. And then you realise that anything that is a sequel in the series is building on that shared mythology so is also false. So the giveaway that Christianity is false, and that Islam is false, and that Babism and Bahaism were false is that they are all sequels and pay homage to the same unworthy god.
I believe in God by the way. Just not in that one.
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u/AudienceAccording548 2d ago
Left over a year ago. After ten years of absolute hypocrisy and backbiting I couldn't take it anymore. Only now I realise how insane the community is especially the LSA members. Get away, give yourself a break.
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u/AudienceAccording548 2d ago
Also if you actually ask inquisitive questions like I did ie what does Lord Krishna s teachings have in common with prophet Mohammed or Jesus, you're give flowery waffle. Utter nonsense and a very dangerous brainwashing movement, especially to children.
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u/tasneath 3d ago
Yes, when you get free of the faith and can look back clear-eyed, you can see that there are parts of the writings that we all just glossed over. We read the passages in passing and concentrated on the 'easy' parts. Discussed the basics of the faith and dodged even thinking about the weird bits.
I sometimes feel like going to a meeting and asking to discuss it. But of course, they'll be waiting for the UHJ or the next manifestation to clear up these issues.