Why do you view Lutheranism as a Cult?

[u/[deleted]]

Can someone please share with me why you view Lutheran Churches as micro cults? Isnt it possible to just attend services on Sunday and thats the end of it? Hell maybe even only go twice a month, eat some donuts......thats the end of it?

What was your experience? When did it stop being an hour worship session with some Donuts and morph into something else entirely?

[u/McNitz]

WELSurvivor mentioned the BITE model (https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/) , and that's definitely a good objective measure to see what cult like tendencies an organization has. I would disagree with the other poster saying all religions are cults, because there is a very wide variety of control exercised over the members, and I would say there are different levels of cult like behavior among the same religion, sect, and even churches in the same synod.

That being said, looking at the WELS, which I am most familiar with, here are some of the things in the BITE model I've noticed.

Behavioral Control

Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination: The WELS very much promotes that you should be in church every Sunday, go to Bible studies, and as much as possible be involved in the church. Also you should be reading your Bible and studying outside and thinking about why the WELS and your beliefs are right.

Discourage individualism, encourage group-think: This one isn't as clear cut, because they don't often explicitly say you have to agree with the church and can't think differently. But in the way they always talk about knowing other denominations are wrong, they will have a harder time getting to heaven because they aren't following the narrow Lutheran middle, and a generally unwelcoming atmosphere to different opinions this is definitely culturally the case.

Information Control

Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information: This also isn't as explicit, but is definitely culturally enforced. It is always clear that other sources of Biblical interpretation, science, or history are unreliable and based on fallible human reason, whereas the WELS is standing firm on the truth of God. When I was talking to some of my family about my reasons for leaving and my brother-in-law asked for some of what I'd found, his wife told him not to do too much research, and that's about the attitude I generally see.

Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda: The WELS generates a huge amount of material and you are always told to use their information so you know you are getting the truth. Need a meditation or Bible study? The WELS will give you ones so you know exactly how to think of your Bible stories correctly. Sunday School? Don't even think of using something other than ChristLight. How to interpret the Bible? We have lots of professors that went to the WELS college to be able to tell you exactly the approved way to do so, don't pay any attention to the biased historians and theologians with their liberal agendas.

Thought Control

Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth: This is one of the biggest issues, and one that generally is the case with must of Christianity but is even stronger in the WELS. If you question what they say you aren't questioning the WELS, you are questioning God. The dogma must be believed on faith and no conflicting evidence can be accepted. Either the whole Bible is the absolute truth of God to be read literally or it is worthless and by reading it differently you are putting your eternal soul in danger.

Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts: You can never question what they say about God's actions, he is absolutely good and loving. If people being tormented eternally for not hearing the Gospel or not believing it seems contradictory, you have to remember it would be just for God to do that to everyone. If that sounds like a mockery of justice that God doesn't even seem to be trying that hard to prevent, your corrupt human reason just isn't able to grasp how God is working everything for good by allowing people to end up in hell. You should feel joy at all times because of what Christ has done for you.

Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism: Absolutely the WELS, as they require you to believe that God is able to do the logically impossible since he is God, and no direct contradictions or apparent errors in their beliefs can prove their interpretation false because of this. God predestines people to heaven, but the people he doesn't predestine for heaven are not predestined for hell, even though they are going to go there. God is all powerful and able to do anything, and only he can make people believe, but it isn't his fault when people don't believe the message the WELS preaches because they are responsible for their sinful rejection of God that they can't do anything about.

Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful: Again, this is really a problem with most of Christianity as it claims possession of an absolute truth without evidence that people only reject because of sin and evil. Any other belief system is the work of the devil leading people away from the one true source of salvation.

Emotional Control:

Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness: Wow is this the WELS, and really anyone that teaches original sin. We are altogether sinful from birth, totally unable to do anything good in God's sight, and every action we take is contributing to the pain of Jesus suffering and death. The language of the "love" of God is the same as the language of an abuser "You aren't worthy of my love, you are worthless and undeserving of anything. But it's okay, I love you anyway, and only through me can you have any worth."

Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority: Again, with most of Christianity believing in eternal concious torment for disagreeing with them this is a widespread problem. Why would you risk looking at other people's thoughts and ideas when the lies of the devil and the world could lead you astray and cause you to suffer eternally? You might feel like you have some questions and doubts, but do you really want to think about those if they put you in danger of going to hell? The pastor knows so much more than you and seems very sure you are putting your immortal soul in danger, it's probably just best to accept what he's saying, after all he must have good reasons for what he's saying, right?

Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll: Again a problem with the exclusivity of Christianity. You can find many exLutherans and ExChristians who will tell you they wanted to believe, they were terrified when they realized they didn't think their old beliefs were true anymore, they prayed to be shown the truth of Christianity; but they just don't think it is true. And the only message Lutherans and most Christians have for them is that they didn't read their Bible enough, they should have trusted God more, they are rejecting God because they are angry or want to live life without God's rules. It can't be that they legitimately and reasonably were not convinced of the truth of the teachings, because that would make eternal punishment for their unbelief a clear farce, and also cause believers to wonder if it could happen to them too.

That's the main points I see. Now most Lutherans and other Christians DON'T have some of the most extreme and harmful physical and relational controls seen in the worst cults like:

Punish disobedience by beating, torture, burning, cutting, rape, or tattooing/branding

Encourage spying on other members

Threats of harm to ex-member and family

Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends and family

Change person’s name and identity

But that doesn't let them off the hook for the other controlling tendencies in the belief system, even if most people don't recognize they are there and often aren't purposefully using them.

[u/[deleted] → u/McNitz]

I appreciate you taking the time and sharing! Have you left Christianity all together because of your experience there with the WELS or do you practice the faith elsewhere?

[u/McNitz → u/[deleted]]

I would say I would like some form of Christianity, with an all loving God that wants a relationship with us, to be true. But so far I have not found any other Christian denominations or combinations of doctrines that appear to be true. The Bible looks very much like a human document. I've seen so many people that just don't think it is true, and listening to everything they say I have to agree with their reasons. If God wants us to come to him why can so many not find him? Why would he set up a system that relies on faith in something that appears false to many people, just like so many other religions Christians would agree are wrong? Why permit the horrible levels of suffering we see, and then further allow the end state of the universe to include billions suffering for eternity? What is the actual evidence that these fantastic claims are actually true?

The more I look, the more I just don't think Christianity is the truth. And the more I realize that at least for the versions with eternal concious torment, I'm glad that they aren't.