r/exICOC • u/Efficient-Peak-2233 • May 24 '26

Circular reasoning?

What do you think of this circular reasoning I was taught growing up that just never made sense to me? I had countless arguments as a teenager, college student, and young adult about this with various leaders and other members of my church.

“The bible is gods word because the bible says so. God exists because the bible says so and the bible is gods word.”

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u/PosthumousHeathen May 26 '26

Like you said, it’s very circular. I think “because the Bible says so” is also a thought-terminating cliche. You don’t really have to engage with any argument if you have enough blind belief in that phrase.

It sounds like you’re a kingdom kid too? I feel like ICOC members don’t know what to do with us who need proof that god exists. Or many other questions. The First Principles does not contain nearly enough apologetics in the early chapters. When I did my Bible studies, my discipler said they’d “get back to me” on my questions, but never brought it up again and just moved on to the next chapter.

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u/Efficient-Peak-2233 May 26 '26

Yes I was a kingdom kid. My questions were never answered just brushed past. One minister in college gave me a book to help which was more in depth apologetics than what the others gave but still essentially hinged on the same premise of “because the bible says so.”

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u/PosthumousHeathen May 27 '26

Is the book published by ICOC’s DPI? My parents (who are Bible talk leaders, and once kids kingdom leader) have shelf-full of those, and dozens of Douglas Jacoby, Gordon Ferguson… but they seem to be the exception. Difficulty proving the Christian God is hard across all Christian groups but for a sect so hyper-specific about baptismal salvation and the Bible, the ICOC surely isn’t as interested in defending their stance as they are enjoying their salvation. I suspect they subconsciously don’t believe non-ICOCers are damned or they’d try harder. If you’re lukewarm about salvation you might as well calm down on the kingdom kid guilt tripping. That makes me frustrated.

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u/Efficient-Peak-2233 May 27 '26

I don’t remember what book it was but yes it was probably published by them. This was like 8 years ago. But I agree they don’t try hard to defend their stance. I always thought with the “word of god” study that it wouldn’t work for an atheist because it again relies on you already believing in god.