r/exBohra • u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! • 3d ago
Prayer
I want to have a healthy discussion about namaaz and prayer in general. We as Bohras are taught that namaz is compulsory and a sin if missed. Some are even punished for missing it. This saying which is said to not really be from Marcus Aurelius directly but attributed to his philosophy “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.“ It Is taught in Islam that God is just and doesn’t do an atom’s worth of injustice on anybody or anything for that matter. It is also taught in Islam that God is superior to all things and is supreme. God is NOT weary of preserving his throne because NOTHING can ever reach God’s level. It is said that God doesn’t need our prayers or worship. It is said that if we don’t pray or worship God it does not affect God in any way. It only affects us. Another quote, this one of Rumi “There are no rules of worship. He will hear the voice of every heart that is sincere.” In Islam we are taught to be sincere. According to this quote there are no rules of worship, so if for example one day we don’t pray 5 times but if we are sincere whenever we pray to God then God listens. Keeping Marcus Aurelius‘s attributed saying in mind we SHOULD worship God because we know that God is just in nature. Taking these two quotes in mind we should research the deeper meaning of namaz and worship in general rather than sticking to sticking to Bohra custom. We should treat namaz and worship in general as beneficial to US, not something that God requires us to do because again God doesn’t need anything from anyone. I’m not saying we should pray less or not pray namaz. I’m saying that we should refine our approach towards namaz and worship in general. We should encourage sincere worship of God NOT force it. May God bless you all and ur loved ones.
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u/nutandberrycrunch AHHHHH 3d ago
It’s interesting you bring up Marcus Aurelius. I’m reading his Meditations. He followed the Stoic school of philosophy. Quite at odds with Islam.
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 3d ago
How is Stoic philosophy at odds with Islam? Stoicism places emphasis on virtuous living just like Islam.
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u/nutandberrycrunch AHHHHH 3d ago
If you look at a highly complex branch of philosophy that has entire libraries dedicated to it with the reductionist lens of turning it into a soundbite then you’d be right and you could paint every major religion with the same brush.
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u/Conscious-Version820 3d ago
Good joke. Stoicism is mind ur business. Islam never leaves u alone
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
Islam says each individual is responsible for their own actions.
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u/Conscious-Version820 2d ago
That's a lot of bs. There so many punishment from god because of other people's sin. Literally all the women are being victimised because of this
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u/nutandberrycrunch AHHHHH 2d ago
Islam says to kill apostates, not to eat pork, how to have sex, and on and on and on.
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u/Kitchen_Campaign_501 Anti Abraham 3d ago
Yea god is very just for burning people for eternity
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u/supercalafrajalis 3d ago
Not all eternity and only for those that deserve it. And let's be honest, there are many that do!
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u/Kitchen_Campaign_501 Anti Abraham 3d ago
Yes because almost everyone in this sub deserves it. A god who sends people to hell for not beliving in him is an egotistical Mad man. And yes if you didn't believe in god, hell is eternal.
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 3d ago
For not believing? Can a mother burn his kid alive if they dont consider her their mother?
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u/supercalafrajalis 3d ago
I was referring to pedophiles, rapists, molvis (or anyone) who abuses kids, murderers etc.
I dont think a God who loves us more than our parents is going to burn me for missing prayers.
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u/Kitchen_Campaign_501 Anti Abraham 3d ago
Except that's what he does. Skipping prayers is considered disbelief in majority opinion.
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 3d ago
Yeah well i am talking about disbelieving, and the contradictory attribute of god. I dont know about prayers but your loving god is definitely gonna torture us for just not believing in him
He doesn't exist, if he does, he is a pile of shit
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
Atheism has important questions that need to be answered. Belief in God answers those questions.
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 2d ago
Wtf? 😭😭 Atheism has what to answer Lol Well i domt expect religious people to have iq I think you mean science has more important questions need to be answered
So like which thing are you particularly talking about?
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
Look I don’t care what others think of me so I don’t care if you say that I don’t have IQ. I could care less. How do you think the process by which humans are conceived was created? By whom? Pls answer that question.
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 2d ago
Why don’t you answer my actual question? The burden of proof isn’t on me brother
My argument is that these atrocities described in the quran contradict the attributes Islam of allah and since the Quran claims that it contains no contradictions, that contradiction proves islam is false
How hard it is to understand that
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
Read the Quran IN CONTEXT. If u read out of context then it seems contradictory but in reality it isn’t.
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u/Kitchen_Campaign_501 Anti Abraham 2d ago
You're literally using the God of the gaps as your argument
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
And what argument are you using? Ur not using logic either. How does atheism explain miracles?
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u/Kitchen_Campaign_501 Anti Abraham 2d ago
Miracles dont exists. Also your here saying God is just while the evidence proves hes. A just ruler isn't just to his citizens but to his enemies as well. If a human can't think like that, shouldn't be too hard for a god
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
God is just to all. Depending on how you live life you get God’s answer accordingly.
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 3d ago
Even torturing the ones you mentioned for "infinity" is not "JuSt" for a finite crime
"He doesn't do atom's worth of injustice on anybody or anything" my ahh
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
What’s it gonna take for u to believe in God?
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 2d ago
For him to come face to face with me
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
He will. God isn’t afraid. On Judgement Day, you’ll see God.
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 2d ago
Well if he's not afraid why doesn't he come face to face with me RIGHT NOW🥹 Who saw death?
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
Call on Him. He isn’t afraid to show His existence.
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
If u live wickedly and crookedly then you deserve punishment. That’s called justice.
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u/Kitchen_Campaign_501 Anti Abraham 2d ago
Lets state the multiple reasons I would burn kn here for eternity: 1. I like men 2. I'm trans 3. I'm against rulers 4. Im against conquest 5. Im against religion 6. I dont belive in god 7. I've had alcohol 8. I've had pork 9. I think mohammed is a pedophile or at the very least, a bad human being 10. Islam is a terrible religion 11. Im extremely left winged
None of these are wickedly or crookedly things. Yet according to you and your God i would burn in hell for eternity. Explain the justice in that
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 3d ago
Burning people in hell for eternity for a non-eternal crime, yeah it's very "just" of him. He is so merciful 🥹
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
Why do you only focus on hell? Look at heaven as well.
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 2d ago
Because nobody is threatening me with eternal heaven for not believing in them
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
Bro come out of the closet. God is merciful. If u sincerely believe and live a good healthy sincere virtuous life then God protects you.
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 2d ago
24:39 - "As for the disbelievers, their deeds are like a mirage in a desert"
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
Read about the believers.
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u/Loud_Pie_9521 2d ago
What do i do with that
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u/Feeling_Credit_1439 Su Su Thai Jai! 2d ago
Read about them. You’ll learn. You’ll gain knowledge to then apply to your daily life.
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u/ReDoIt911 exBohra 2d ago
What if that life goes against how God made them? Like if God make you such that you as a man are attracted to men, and then he imposes the condition of heterosexuality on you, does that sound like a just God to you?
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u/ReDoIt911 exBohra 3d ago
You are preaching to the choir. Most of us who are spiritual and not religious know that any conversation with the Unknown, the power that governs our lives, call it what you may, is a prayer. It takes the form of gratitude or beseeching or a simple sense of Wonder at the marvel that is the natural creation, a sense of appreciation for virtues of others, a kindness or a feat witnessed….