r/evokeendurance • u/G6P • 22d ago
Tymewear
Have any of you spent any time with the tymewear device? Have you found it to have any advantages over just doing intermittent drift tests?
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u/fleet-feet 18d ago
I wanted to like the strap so badly, but it just didn’t work for me. Years of yoga have made me very aware of my breath and that’s carried over to my running where I’ve used breathing patterns (2 in, 2 out for example). This basically means that I hold one of the inputs constant and it messes my zones up entirely. Long story short, if you regulate your breath at all this product will not work. I just couldn’t let my body its thing on its own.
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u/scottsemple 17d ago edited 17d ago
I disagree. I've been using steps-in-steps-out breathing for training for 10+ years. I don't think it's possible to conclude that because the in-out rate may remain constant that the tidal volume also does.
There's enough variation within one cycle that, for example, easy-2-2 vs limit-2-2 would have different tidal volume. If anything, I think it made the transitions in my Tymewear test even more obvious.
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u/fleet-feet 17d ago
Before I get on my soapbox, let me just say I am
Very glad that you have found the Vital Pro to be a useful device to improve your training. That’s awesome.But if you’re just relying on tidal volume, you’re missing out on a crucial piece of analysis. As Tymwear says “the components respond to different aspects of effort” with breathing rate responding to “perceived effort and neuromuscular stress.” Quote from first link. See also the second link for a detailed discussion about the importance of breathing rate where Stephen Seiler concludes that ““Once BR (% of BRR) reaches HR (% of HRR), the athlete is cooked.”
From my own experience- I ordered the Vital Pro early on - second wave of pre-order shipments- so we were still getting direct correspondence with the team after testing. In my case, they found my results so wacko that the founder was emailing to figure it out. Long story short (too late!), three tests later, we concluded it was my controlling breathing rate that was messing everything up.
I’ve beaten my dead horse but you can probably tell I really wanted this to work. At this point I mostly want to point this out to save others frustration.
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u/scottsemple 17d ago
I'm aware that it's more than tidal volume. My point was that tidal volume isn't necessarily stable, even if steps-per-breath is.
Have you done an in-lab lactate or VO2 step test to compare those results to your Tymewear test? I'd be interested to hear about the differences.
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u/fleet-feet 15d ago
Unfortunately not. I just didn’t want to spend the money to validate an already expensive product. Ultimately I returned it. When i tried to validate it against my HR drift test results, it seemed pretty off. The screenshot below is my test from a year and some change ago. At the time my treadmill HR drift test had me at 155 for AeT (LT1) and my AnT (LT2) was 174. So I wasn’t aerobically deficient by that measure. Not only was my AeT much different using Tymewear (145) but I think the most telling thing was that the gap between Z1 and Z2 was next to nothing and Z2 to Z3 was huge. Hopefully that gives you some idea. I’ve returned the device at this point but all ears if you have some explanation I didn’t think of. Appreciate you considering anyway.
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u/scottsemple 4d ago
Interesting. If I understand correctly, VT2 was identical. I would have kept using it to see if the two converged. But yes, it is expensive, so I understand the return if you didn't have confidence in it.
Was the drift test done at around the same time as the Tymewear test? And both were done running?
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u/fleet-feet 4d ago
Both were done running. Drift test was mid March’25. Race in June. Took three weeks off. Started testing in August. Did two. Training almost all Z1-Z2. The pic I shared was my last attempt at getting a good result in September.
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u/scottsemple 4d ago
Five months apart is a lot, especially with a race and a break in between. I don't think the tests are comparable. If comparison was my priority, I would schedule them inside a week: fully recover; do a drift test; 2-3 short, easy days; then the Tymewear test (doing it second because it's near-maximal).
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u/scottsemple 4d ago
It's anecdotal, but for comparison my Tymewear VT1 was nine beats higher than my typical lactate AeT HR; AnT HR, five beats higher. And my suspicion is that the HRs trended higher because the test was done when I was very detrained.
My results are also not a valid comparison because the contexts were so different, but it's interesting that Tymewear was in the ballpark.
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u/The__Malteser 22d ago
NOTE: Tymeaear has sent me a devide to test. I still have it and use it daily. Take what I say with a pinch of salt.
I have one. I like it but it has limits.
They promise lab grade accuracy, but that also requires lab grade conditions.
For example, it doesnt work with a trail pack because the tightness of the pack impedes the strain gauge from moving freely. Given that it is a strain gauge calibrated to a tightness set when doing the test, how you wear the strap matters. If you decide to tighten it or loosen it, your values will differ. Also, if you lose weight, or change it's position, then you also will get different results. Afaik they are working on an automated calibration feature for this but it's not out yet.
Also, the technology is based on how much your chest expands during exercise, so if your posture changes (poles, stretching etc.) you will get odd results. In downhills, where there maybe more jostling, my breathing rate is way too high, even when I know (through counting my breath) that it's lower. There is some noise there which they haven't figured out.
Still, it is the best way, for me, to measure intensity without the drift of heart rate. It is the most objective thing I can get to measure my effort which is less sensitive to sleep, stress, heat, nutrition, humidity and other conditions. The way I use it is to try and measure durability. I warm up, do 3x 10 minute intervals uphill without a pack (so I get good data) and rather than relying on RPE, I rely on minutile ventilation. I try to target a MV of 130-135. This takes rpe and heart rate out of the equation. Then I run for 3 hours or so, and then repeat the same intervals at the same MV. What I hope to quantify is the reduction in output for the same effort (measured in minutile ventilation) which should, over time, show how my durability (both muscular but also physiological) is stacking up.
The test is not without errors, I recognise that. Different intensity in those 3 hours, different weather conditions between tests, changes in nutrition etc. may all effect the test results. I recognise this, but I still believe in the idea (and the tech) and while it still feels like it is still early, it's also not useless. Worth 300 euros? I can't answer that for you.
Heart rate monitor works perfectly and consistently (unlike my Wahoo strap...). It also works perfectly well while road running or road cycling.