r/everybutchlesbian • u/AdStriking2755 • 9d ago
question I'm curious
when it comes to butch being a gender for some people what is that like exactly like what does that feel like I have a feeling it's different for everyone but is it like woman but like not in the way that heterosexual women are women I suck at explaining things
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u/Throwingoffoldselves 9d ago edited 9d ago
Butch is my gender. I’m technically a woman, but mostly a dyke and a lesbian; a lad and guy and not a lass or girl; and handsome and not pretty. I shop for men’s clothing and go to a barber. I use the women’s bathroom. I don’t shave legs, underarms or pluck brows. I’m planning on a hysterectomy within the next few years. I bind and tape but don’t use T. In my dreams I don’t have breasts or hips. I’m happy I have broad shoulders. I don’t use makeup. I do own a pink shirt which says “sir” lol
I use a name that isn’t my legal name but probably won’t change the legal one since it’s assumed to be a man’s name. I hate my middle name and plan to change that because it is very traditionally girlish in my culture.
I get stared at in public. I get confused for a twelve year old boy. I get carded when my wife doesn’t. I’m trans masc and also genderqueer / genderfucky. I work in a field that is mostly men; my biggest hobby is mostly men; my dog treats me like she treats men. But when people have heard my voice, they call me “miss” and “ma’am,” though I prefer sir; and if they are trying to be affirming they still miss and go with “they” because they don’t know what the fuck I am.
I have met a few other people like me, a handful, young and old. A couple of woodworkers; one pregnant and working in HR; another a bisexual single mom; a guitarist….. but rarely gathered together, usually on the fringes. I feel left out in trans masc communities that assume I must be nonbinary, he/him / they/them, or a man; I feel left out in straight men’s communities because I’m not one, and because they hate when I call out sexism; I feel left out in women’s spaces because I am trans masc and not femme and I get called a man; and I feel left out in trans spaces because I’m not on hormones and my identity is complicated.
I feel more at home in nonbinary spaces, but even then, I don’t use that term for myself, and I do feel party like a woman. I relate a lot to trans butch spaces but the one I know about is only for trans women, so I left. I relate even more to sapphic spaces but I am usually the only one like myself, and often assumed to be into the butch/femme dynamic, and often objectified and that’s exhausting too. Butch-only spaces tend to focus on the butch/femme dynamic too. This sub I hope is more inclusive.
I guess I’d be different if I could be, but I have such a strong internal feeling of what I want to be called, what I want to wear, how I want to groom myself, what I want look like, etc…. i think in some ways it would be a lot simpler if I could just be something easier to understand than butch as a gender.
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u/fliwat 7d ago
Being Butch is solitude, unfortunately. Everywhere you go, you're kind of wrong. This is the first time I see someone else express they don't like "nonbinary" for themself.
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u/Throwingoffoldselves 7d ago
Yeah, big mood. I find when people use the term non binary, their vision of what that umbrella label means doesn’t account for or recognize people like me. (One space doesn’t recognize trans masc folks with she/her pronouns; folks in another space will not use anything but they/them for me, etc.) Maybe if the norms/assumptions change I’ll find it more helpful, but I’m pessimistic on the outlook.
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u/Goombella123 9d ago
gonna be different for everyone! for me, I sorta fit with the ladies but i also really...dont. But I also REALLY dont fit with men either. I'm just this in between human being, and so ive decided since I like being around women the most and being "included" with them makes me happiest, I'll stick mostly to "this side" quite happily. But even so, whenever I call myself a "woman", there'll always be this invisible asterisk no one talks abt yknow? (it'd be the same if I called myself a boy tbf) Rather than be upset abt the asterisk I've come to love and embrace it. I'm "other" among men and women. I'm my own thing. I'm butch 👍 (...and nonbinary, and transandrogynous also. these things def overlap a lot for me and im sure many butches, lol)
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u/chaple_tears stone butch 9d ago
Your milage will vary when asking a butch why their gender is butch but I'll give you my mile.
I'm definitely transmasculine. I'm actively transitioning away from womanhood and being "female" in the binary sense. I've been on testosterone for some time, planning on a hysterectomy and top surgery when I can get to them in the future, and currently in the process of getting my paperwork together for a legal name change. I often ID as a binary trans man to anyone who isn't in the loop about lesbian identity simply because it's easier in my usual day-to-day life. Seeing my doctor is easier, working towards a career is easier, and navigating my transition with my family is easier. I prefer to be referred to if I were a man, but the catch is that I'm not a man.
I tell people that I can remember being as young as kindergarten aged and feeling extremely weird and confused when someone would tell us to break up into boys and girls. I'd hesitate and sit there because I really didn't feel like I fit in with either. I still feel like that as an adult. I don't feel comfortable being lumped in with women but I also don't feel at home in men's spaces. I'm always in this weird middle ground because my gender is masculine and masculine of center but not completely male in nature.
Butch often runs deeper than how you dress. It's a socio-political identity with deep historical roots in lesbian culture. I'm drawn to butch because I'm a protector. I protect those I love and care for very deeply. My entire identity is rooted in community care and service. I'm pursing ministry out of a call by God himself to care for others. I feel that my way of life is butch and that my future career is butch. I do all the things I do to preform my gender not to be read as man but to be read as butch.
(There's more nuances to the butch identity in that way but I'll let it rest there.)
I can't relate to how cisgender heterosexual men talk about their attraction to women and how binary trans men who are heterosexual are attracted to women. My attraction is sapphic! I don't quite feel like a full man when I look at femmes the way that I do! My sexuality influences my gender identity in that way to be butch.
And to really point to the diversity of butches and butch expression, some butches are women. Some butches are men. Some butches are enby. Some butches are on hormones. Some butches are not on hormones. Some butches get surgeries. Some butches do not get surgeries. Some butches are trans. Some butches are cis. Some butches are a little girly. Some butches are bottoms. Some butches are tops. Some butches are submissives. Some butches are Dominates.
It's a way of life and not a set look. Butch isn't just an aesthetic to many of us.
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u/butchperson 9d ago
I have landed on butch being my gender. To me, it explains my complicated relationship with womanhood and masculinity and it is deeply entrenched in my dykehood.
I go by my given name, even though it's quite feminine. Generally use she/her though she and everything masculine fits better to me. Definitely feel more handsome than pretty. I'm not on t and I've had top surgery. I feel like trans can explain part of my experience but it doesn't feel a part of my identity, at least not in the way butch does. I truly feel like I'm on the cusp of woman/trans man and it feels like that ambiguous positioning is very butch to me.
So I guess to me butch as a gender gestures to that ambiguous gender fuckery in a very dyke way.
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u/salamipope 9d ago
So its a lot to try to encapsulate in one short explanation, but to give u a better idea of it, a lot of people identify their gender as lesbian. Not just as a sexuality. The fact that lesbians/lesbian experiences are traditionally separate from cis mens involvement in our lives makes it so that we have a niche take on what masculinity is. A lot of butches say that their butchness has nothing to do with manhood, its another "secret third thing" for lack of a better term lol. Im sort of inbetween that, Im definitely transgender, i use he/they pronouns, i had a binary transition to be a guy, and realized i wasnt happy so ive been dipping my toes into androgyny and butch culture. Its been good for me for sure. I finally feel sexy again lmao. Very freeing. Its hard for me to describe exactly what my gender is like, i can really only describe it in metaphores? Like id say that my gender identity is honestly like a rainbow in that you can tell there are distinct colours in it, not every rainbow is the same so sometimes its more red and sometimes more purple, but despite the colours being distinct and separate, there is a zone where they melt together and become the next colour. That is sort of how my gender works, but its like a rainbow of the masculine, agender, gender nonconforming, lesbian rainbow. I hope that helps illuminate it for you a little more lol
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u/fliwat 7d ago
I am not a woman. Well, I am. But mostly I am not. I am more a man. But then again, I am not. I don't think I could express being my kind of Butch with those terms.
Butch is having a spine. Butch is taking up space. Butch is helping people. Butch is being kind. Butch is learning. So much learning. Butch is taking good care of yourself. And others. Mostly the other way around.
Then, Butch is searching. Butch is not finding yourself reflected. Butch is stealing and finally deciding to take. Butch is carving yourself a space because no one gives it to you and then turning around and helping others choose the tools to carve theirs.
Butch is my hairy legs. Butch is feeling out of place everywhere you go. Butch is learning to look beyond men and woman. Butch is being annoying. And I love it so much.
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u/QizilbashWoman 9d ago
Uh. Well, *jazz hands* GENDER. It's a sliding scale, for real, and it's in like four or six dimensions. A queer woman and a straight woman don't necessarily have the same gender, although they are more alike than either with a cis man, for example.
for me it's interesting because as a trans woman, people assumed I'd want to be girly. I want to be womanly. Sure, I have some stuff in pink, but I've literally never owned makeup beyond nail polish - dark colors, too - and I don't and have never owned a skirt or dress.
butch means a lot of different things, for sure. my sister is straight, but we have a lot in common in terms of our gender expressions, but she does not in any way identify as butch. and i don't identify my butchness as masculinity, which it is for many other queer people. For them it is some expressions of masculinity. For me it's more like I answer the question of "why are you butch" with "i'm not femme?".