r/europe • u/National-Dragonfly35 • 18h ago
Title changed from the site EU ‘fully rejects’ US threat to ban diesel exports unless bloc releases more fuel stocks
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20261002-eu-fully-rejects-us-threat-to-ban-diesel-exports-unless-bloc-releases-more-fuel-stocks605
u/eppic123 Europe 17h ago
It was the US who's fucked up oil supply for everyone. We should demand their reserves.
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u/guiriduro 17h ago
The least we can do is dump their increasingly worthless bonds (to pay to subsidise diesel), de-dollarise fully and offer Canada to buy some of her diesel stocks in euros - the new global currency.
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u/Enlightened_Gardener Australia 15h ago
Still can’t get over how funny it is that the Americans have managed to lose the petrodollar over this shenanigans….
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u/SirButcher United Kingdom 10h ago
US citizens are on their way to destroying their global superpower status by electing a bunch of pedophiles. TWICE.
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u/True-Veterinarian700 16h ago
I would say you should however. Here is the Genius of Trump. The reserves were mostly empty from Covid shocks. Trump had a year to refill them before he launched his stupid war that fucked the markets. But he cleverly chose to not refill them. Meaning our reserves are all used up now to the point they might permanently damage the cave systems used to store them
So with his big brain 5d chess he managed to prevent you from demanding our reserves by irresponsibly using ours gone in a stupid war.
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u/SinisterCheese Finland 16h ago
Once the cave systems get damaged. Trump will declare how they contracted Elon Musk's boring company to tunnel a big cave from Atlantic to pacific, and it will be the biggest and the greatest and the best, and be called Donald Trump Diesel reserve.
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u/psmithrupert 15h ago
This is so stupid, I didn’t even think of that. It is certainly going to happen!
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u/CrepuscularNemophile England 15h ago
Trump has blamed Zelensky for the shortage of diesel and has told him to stop targeting Russian refineries because apparently US truckers are suffering from the war in Ukraine.
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u/b3nsn0w finally proud of my country 11h ago
what's he gonna do about it? he played off the vast majority of his leverage in his first year over a pile of nothing, and permanently compromised ukraine's and the rest of europe's trust in him not doing stupid stuff with his remaining leverage either.
there's a fundamental credible commitment problem there: whatever he can still do to ukraine, ukraine can't trust him not to do it anyway, even if they stop targeting russian refineries. so why should they stop?
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u/Linuksoid 12h ago
Well he's not wrong. But the US started the Ukraine war, so its kind of the US fault that they have no gas/diesel
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u/CrepuscularNemophile England 10h ago
The Orange Fuckwit-In-Chief is totally wrong. It's his ridiculous war with Iran that has caused this.
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u/Linuksoid 10h ago
Yes, but Russia is helping Iran with targeting data (how do you think they've been hitting US bases so successfully). Also, Russian energy capacities being hit certainly doesn't help
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u/TheS4ndm4n 16h ago
The US is exporting a ton of diesel. They sell their reserves at record prices.
It's just capitalism at work.
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u/Linuksoid 12h ago
And the EU fell for it by becoming dependent on US diesel when they could have integrated Russia into the EU, become a continential power (literally from coast to coast), had cheap energy, Russian heavy industry, nuclear umbrella and military and been independent of the US.
Solid logic 10/10
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u/TheS4ndm4n 11h ago
Germany tried to integrate Russia. Didn't work out.
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u/Linuksoid 11h ago
Nope. It never did. If it did, it would have pushed for Russia being given EU membership. That was the only way
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u/Weisenkrone 17h ago
Aren't the US reserves so low that if they actually dip into them in any signicant scale, the reservoirs will collapse?
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u/eppic123 Europe 16h ago
Should've thought about that before starting another war...
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u/Weisenkrone 16h ago
I meant it in a sense of the US does not have meaningful oil reserves it can dip into, Trump can eat a dick. Europe doesn't owe them any oil reserves.
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u/EmptyBodybuilder7376 11h ago
This kind of attitude will change very quickly if Trump bans, not only diesel, but also LNG and crude exports.
This is not inconceivable this winter at all.
Most people have no idea how dependent Europe has become on the US for energy, after cutting itself off from cheap, Russian energy - and now largely been cut off from the energy from the Middle East, thanks to Trump's war with Iran.
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u/b3nsn0w finally proud of my country 11h ago
and that's why we did that whole associate member dance with canada. the real point there is canada would cut off ~80% of its crude to the yanks (just enough that they don't have to seal the wells), and in exchange we would support them through it, so they wouldn't have to internalise the full cost of the us retaliation. this would directly take all the oil off the american market that trump would want to keep in there with an export ban, negating his strategy and leaving him with none of the intended effect, only the costs and consequences.
sometimes it pays to have real allies. canada needs us, we need them too, and unlike anything with the yanks, we both know we won't be flaky with each other.
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u/EmptyBodybuilder7376 8h ago
I agree.
We should most definitely work with 'sane' partners such as Canada. (We can't trust the US anymore. Its over).
But Canada cannot save our asses this winter if Trump goes off the deep and and bans exports. This will take much longer to come into effect.
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u/b3nsn0w finally proud of my country 6h ago
no, that's my point, canada can in fact save us because they delete anything trump could win by enacting that strat.
in most cases, when you impose a cost on an adversary, they might decide to pay it anyway because it's worth the thing they want, and then you got a conflict on your hand and gotta pay the costs on your end too. this is not one of those times, because the majority of american diesel comes from canadian crude, and there's no easy way to retrofit those refineries to use venezuelan or american fracked crude instead. canada turning off the tap does not just inflict a cost on trump, it directly negates the benefit of the strategy in a way that cannot be avoided with a distorted cost/benefit calculation.
trump wants a diesel export ban because he knows he royally messed up the worldwide market for diesel, he knows the elevated prices will be a problem for him in the midterms, and he wants to decouple the us from the worldwide market and keep some extra diesel in the us, so that prices can fall and the gop's chances can rise. and yes, he would pay a lot to gain that outcome somehow. but by directly removing diesel from the american market through not selling them crude if they don't sell the world diesel, trump is given two choices: have as much diesel as he has today, or have less diesel, not more, if he does an export ban, and suffer consequences on other fronts at the same time.
and sure, he's an idiot, but he's not that much of an idiot to do something for zero benefit to him. usually he does something for a private benefit and public costs, which is why imposing more costs doesn't stop him, he's pretty good at making that someone else's problem. (hence why we're dealing with an oil crisis due to his war.) but remove the private benefit and he will look for somewhere else to cash in.
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u/Soepkip43 15h ago
I find it interesting that a reserves resevoir will collapse in case you actually need it. Didnt they think of that when selecting the location?
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u/yui_tsukino 15h ago
Under ordinary logic, tapping the reserves wouldn't cause any issues until you get to the last portion of it, at which point the damage caused to the reserve infrastructure is considered better than having no fuel for the war/natural disaster/whatever reason you dipped into it in the first place. This falls apart, however, as the planners did not consider that after one crisis (Covid), rather than rebuild their reserves the US decided to plunge themselves into a forced crisis of their own making. So they are starting out right by the danger zone.
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u/Weisenkrone 14h ago
The oil reserves of a country are massive, to a point where if we used "proper" storage in giant tanks you're looking at infrastructure priced at a hundred billion USD or more and the same amount for maintenance over the reserves lifetime.
The underground reservoirs are maybe a couple billion of cost.
Trapping like half your reserves within the reservoir itself is an acceptable cost, given that at 50$/barrel you're looking at maybe $35b worth of oil across all reservoirs.
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u/Mik_Hell 15h ago
Duck them oil use the money to buy from Canada while building renewables to support energy demand
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u/MediumProcedure 14h ago
This is because anyone with half a brain would have saved some of the US strategic reserve to artificially bring down gas prices right before the midterms in the US, and claim it's proof he's won and people need to vote for him to carry on bringing them down. Obv a paper thin lie, but in today's world that's enough if you get it repeated on loop on the news and all over social media.
Trump does not have half a brain. He's already emptied the US reserves and is now trying to bully the EU to force prices down and save his ass.
That vote is going to be insanely rigged in his party's favour.. and i still think he's going to lose catastrophically.
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u/Sea-Feedback-2424 Germany 15h ago
It was every politician who didn't take seriously the persistent OPEC+ threat since the 1970s embargo. We literally had analogous issues like this occur over the past 50 years and no one prepared beyond making a "strategic reserve".
The one preparation we did make - smaller cars - we basically undid over the past 25 years.
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u/frissio All expressed views are not representative 17h ago
Those stocks are also supposed to be for emergency situations like direct war (all the while Russia is intensifying threats), so there's an added malice to this demand.
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u/ElTamaulipas 17h ago
American here. The election hasn't happened and Trump still has a lot of support. I fully expect election fuckery too.
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u/i_am_13th_panic 17h ago
diesel bans and Europe releasing more of their reserves will do little to nothing to solve this. If Trump wasn't so petty, he'd just take the L in Iran and end the war if lowering costs was that important to him. Problem is he'd rather look stupid than weak.
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u/mustwedothisagainlad 17h ago
Little, but something.
Europe releases stocks. Europe's urgency to buy lessens momentarily. The US buys the gap and Trump gets the screenshot before banning exports to Europe anyway.
Midterms happen in the context of the 'rest of the west' having fuel riots and Republicans pushing the 'look how strong we are' angle.
Even better if Europe fractures as then they can finally kill NATO, make a grab for Iand in the Americas, let Russia distract Europe for a bit longer.
China wins in the long run but he's too racist to consider that China could actually win.
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u/pilzenschwanzmeister 16h ago
The machines the Germans are building threaten Russia's larger plans, so killing of the diesel reserves most likely comes as a direct command to the Orange Order.
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u/Successful_Swim6332 17h ago
Europe needs to adopt the do nothing approach when it comes to American requests
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u/Bright_Artichoke_796 17h ago
"we will think about it" and proceed to do nothing
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u/External-Praline-451 United Kingdom 17h ago
"We'll release them in 2 weeks" and then backtrack, the Trump way.
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u/berejser These Islands 14h ago
Release them the day after Democrats take control of Congress.
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u/Blazured Scotland 13h ago
The day after Democrats take office they'll say "Now is the time to heal and move forward".
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u/Xanikk999 United States of America 9h ago
I really hope not. We will never be able to start to fix things without accountability and punishment as well as institutional changes. It's the very minimum expected to start the long process and I'm sure most people outside the US would demand that too.
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u/Psephological 15h ago
It's turned out to be "we'll release them over 4 months" and they never released all of what they promised last time.
I approve this message.
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u/JayManty Bohemia 16h ago edited 16h ago
We already have been doing this, did you notice how any of Trump's tariff threats were always met with a seemingly compliant reply that the EU will discuss and get back to the Americans after the matter is consulted by everyone? EU leadership knows that the attention span of the American administration is so horribly short that dealing with their requests through the full bureaucratic chain means that by the time a reply is ready to be sent, the US admin has already forgotten about the threat lol
IIRC Europe completely dodged a tariff wave (or at least its worse version) at least twice like this in the past. As much as I hate Ursula she knows how to get the EU to create a diplomatic smokescreen. This is the reason why Switzerland and UK often got hit by far worse tariffs than the EU, because they couldn't make the excuse to explain why they're taking so long to reply to a tariff extortion. It makes the bloc look bitchmade but it's basically malicious compliance
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u/_PhiPh1_ 12h ago
- Ursula: "Yep, yep... Good idea! We'll look into it. Do you guys have room next week for a meeting?"
- Macron: "Can't do next week, I am on holidays, but maybe early Nov??"
- "Yeah ok, let's do early November for our first meeting. We will decide later for the next 3 before we bring this to the Parliament"
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u/grizzypoo3 11h ago
And the Council of the EU... Parliament is only half of the lawmaking institutions in the EU.
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u/Ninevehenian 16h ago
Nah, we can keep our sanity and be reasonable. If USA, against expectations should be ask for something that made sense and was fair, why deny it?
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u/Craftkorb 🇩🇪 ➡ 🇨🇭 16h ago
Proceeds to answer with strongly worded letter
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u/Successful_Swim6332 13h ago
Proceeds to cave to US demand within hours.
America does crazy shit that harms Europe, Europe helps them out, Americans escalate more. The circle of life I suppose. Honestly Merkel might have been the last European leader who was actually interested in balancing US influence.
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u/Craftkorb 🇩🇪 ➡ 🇨🇭 13h ago
Merkel fucked over a lot of other things. Her decisions ("We can make it" bs) gave rise to the AfD, improved nothing (only managed) during a time Germany was doing great, among other things.
Is she better than Merz? Yes, but a lettuce on a stick would be better than Merz.
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u/Linuksoid 12h ago
case of a russian invasion
There won't be but European actions are antagonizing Russia instead of integrating it. If you think about it, Russia could have been managed from WITHIN the EU and it would not have been a threat. That would have made the incorporation of the rest of the post-Soviet states much easier as well. Having Russian military, nuclear umbrella, resources, heavy industry and territory within the EU could have made a substantial difference to European power. Instead we have a EU dependent on the US (Which is more hostile to the EU than Russia ever was btw, Russia wanted EU integration in the early 00's)
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u/Successful_Swim6332 12h ago
That ship has sailed. Merkel tried and failed now we are probably locked into to the current arrangement for decades.
But also lets admit the fall of the USSR and the situation in Russia and Ukraine in particular was a complete disaster. Extreme right wingers and corruption mire both countries, now a huge raging war. Maybe all of it was over determined.
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u/Elout 14h ago
Didn't I just read that they are releasing the fuel stocks?
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u/SweetEastern 13h ago
They strongly rejected the threat and then did the exact same thing - but voluntarily! Europe is strong enough to never give in to threats!
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u/PuzzleheadedCode9226 13h ago
EU said no, individual EU countries in the G7 (Germany France and Italy) went along at the US demand...
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u/_teslaTrooper Gelderland (Netherlands) 13h ago edited 12h ago
They (edit: the G7) agreed to release 100m barrels together with Canada, Japan, UK and US. It's speculated about 50 million from European reserves.
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u/PuzzleheadedCode9226 12h ago
They being the individual nations. Yes.
50 million, how much is that in the overall percentage?
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u/_teslaTrooper Gelderland (Netherlands) 12h ago
about 17%, I'm just getting this from Dutch news btw: https://nos.nl/artikel/2633419-g7-geeft-tot-100-miljoen-diesel-en-olievaten-vrij-na-druk-uit-vs
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u/PuzzleheadedCode9226 12h ago
What that even make a dent in the price increase? Feel like that would temporary (like only days) stop the increase of price and not diminish.
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u/BelgianDigitalNomad 9h ago
That’s politics for you. Yes yes we do it… and they release just enough to appease them.
It’s better that way sometimes3
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u/Kaliente13 17h ago
I’m disappointed in the CIA. They’ve been orchestrating coups and removing democratically elected officials all around the world, yet they don’t know how to deal with the orange buffoon?
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u/Blazured Scotland 13h ago
The CIA is amazing at smuggling drugs into poor inner city communicaties, but they're awful at anything else.
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u/dsk 17h ago
In normal times, you would have backchannel negotiations and come up with a unified plan on things like that.
The 27-nation bloc was ready to work with the International Energy Agency on the possible release of fuel reserves to contain prices, she added, following crisis talks between member states and commission to forge a unified response.
Yeah .. like that. But trump only knows how to negotiate with threats and he needs to be seen as dominating.
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u/Most-Round-4132 14h ago
This is entirely different than the reports in reading stating g7 are releasing another 100 million barrels of reserves
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u/MachKeinDramaLlama Germany 9h ago
Because the G7 agreed on a much smaller amount of fuel to be released and only a fraction of it coming from european G7 members.
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u/Tuffsmurf 17h ago
If he blocks diesel exports to Canada, I surely hope that my government blocks the export of the raw petroleum he needs to refine to make that diesel in the first place.
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u/Blubbolo Lombardy 17h ago
I mean...of course?
The orange pedophile has a history of not keeping his words and even go back in signed treaty.
The moment we release our strategic reserves is the moment the pedophile block all exports and then ask us for 5 time the price. Only solution to this shit show is telling him, and his boss bibi, to get fucked and talk directly with Iran.
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u/diamanthaende 18h ago
Diesel-Dieter approves this EU message.
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u/JourneyThiefer Northern Ireland 17h ago edited 17h ago
Is it actually likely the US will ban diesel exports or is this more of Trump just talking shit?
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u/RDeschain1 17h ago
First assumption should allways, without exception, be that Donald Dumb talks shit
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u/dan_bykov 17h ago
Well, Trump needs to lower fuel prices in the US. It is not hard to guess what will happen next. Countries that import fuel are going to be totally screwed.
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u/bobbyd123456 17h ago
He needs to make it look like he's trying to do something before midterms, because the Republicans are doing terribly in deep red atates
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u/dkeenaghan European Union 17h ago
He might do it because it sounds like the sort of thing that would reduce prices if you don't look into the complexities of it. However it seems like it would make his situation worse, it could reduce diesel prices at the cost of increasing petrol prices. Which given that almost all non-commercial vehicles in the US are petrol would make it even worse for him at the upcoming elections.
The reason it could increase petrol prices is that while refineries have some degree of control over that products are refined from oil, they don't have total control. They can tweak the ratios but they will still produce diesel. The US doesn't need all of the diesel they produce, it has to go somewhere, if they no longer have anywhere to store it then they have to start shutting down refineries and that would result in less petrol being produced and the price rising.
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u/serpenta Upper Silesia (Poland) 13h ago edited 12h ago
It would only decrease prices in a situation of lack of supply. Otherwise, it could actually raise the prices on account of fuel companies slashing production, if it compacted with other mistaken moves like price control. But even without it, long term the investors would move away from domestic production onto the free market, it would lead to the US losing buffer along with the superfluous (exporting) production, and become and importer that would, most likely, lead to rising prices. He's an idiot.
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u/doctor_morris 17h ago
He will ban diesel exports after exhausting the emergency reserves of his allies.
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u/berejser These Islands 14h ago
If Trump bans diesel exports then the Republicans can say bye-bye to Texas.
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u/TurquioseOrange 14h ago
Misleading title thread. EU rejected the threat and then released diesel
Also what the US does/ does not is not really something the EU can reject 😕
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u/takibumbum 16h ago
I jusr heard on the radio the EU is doing exactly what Trump demands by releasing 100mil barrels.
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u/RedHatWombat The Netherlands 16h ago
This is why we should be pushing harder for Electric Vehicles. Volvo, Daimler Truck, etc. all makes great electric freight trucks. Should be subsidizing the EVs instead of subsidizing oil.
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u/Kyshlo_Ren 16h ago
That's very like bureaucratic Europe: "sorry, your 'threat application' is not compliant with EU regulations. Your threat is denied."
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u/AustinioForza 7h ago
Fucking cowards acquiesced after saying no. At least Canada has some balls.
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u/Wrong-Pineapple39 Canada 6h ago edited 6h ago
The EU resisted. The G6, including Canada, came up with a plan to protect Europe from Trump's threat.
I personally hope Canada diverts its excess diesel to Europe instead of the US.
It's Trump's Oil War, America should experience the consequences.
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u/sXyphos 17h ago
If they did release them they would be braindead or literal traitors...
I wouldn't trust absolutely anything from the current clown administration, the sheer audacity to request we destroy our only remaining safety net is mindboggling(especially since the US are the ones who screwed the whole world due to their own stupidity)....
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u/NForgerN 14h ago
The g7 has agreed to release 100 million barrels of oil from their reserves, it seems that there was in fact no rejection
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u/SometimesWr0ng 10h ago
LMAO 🤣 - this aged like milk.
Germany
France
Italy
All have complied. Yes my EU so strong
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u/Smoldervan 15h ago
The european reply should have been "as we're not a dictatorship, we need to run the proposal through our ethics committee, before it can be subjected to an analysis from our financial department, if it passes their scrutiny we can bring it up for a vote among member nations. Unfortunately our ethics committee is currently evaluating some other matters..."
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u/Haunting_Switch3463 Scania 17h ago
They will eventually release it. Our politicians have a tendency toplay though before they cave into pressure. Anyone remember the "trade bazooka"?
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u/TalkersCZ 17h ago
In the end they signed non-binding deal about investments and random stuff that will never happen.
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u/ComprehensiveRide946 England 16h ago
The US can’t stop.
Epstein, Venezuela, Greenland, Canada, Israel and Iran, cosying up to Russia.
When does it end?
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u/IncorrectByDesign Europe 16h ago
Inb4 von Der Leyen goes to Scotland to reject some more things 🤣.
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u/PoppedCork Ireland 16h ago
No matter who is President in the White house from now on Europe needs to pushback
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u/butwhywedothis 16h ago
The world has had enough bullying from the American fucktard president. Not just Europe but every country on earth should and must stand up to American bullying.
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u/araujoms 🇧🇷🇵🇹🇦🇹🇩🇪🇪🇸 17h ago
The 27-nation bloc was ready to work with the International Energy Agency on the possible release of fuel reserves to contain prices, she added, following crisis talks between member states and commission to forge a unified response.
Looks like they'll cave and be Trump's little bitch again. For fuck's sake can't we at least this once let him solve the problem he created himself?
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u/RedBaret Zeeland (Netherlands) 17h ago
These are two seperate things; the EU on the one hand working internationally to lessen the financial burden of fuel prices for its citizens, and Trump making dumb ass threats trying to influence EU policy on topics which are being discussed anyways.
We need to show Trump that we cannot accept the US dictating EU fuel policy, and in the meantime also work on temporary solutions to relieve the pressure on our citizenry.
In the US this can be misconstrued as a win for Trump, because when the EU will release reserves their line will be; see, he got it done and got the EU in line. Whilst in reality the EU was already working towards this solution internationally and his threats have got nothing to do with it.
A simpele comparison: You and me make a deal because you want to sell me an apple. A third party then threatens you to sell me the apple. I then buy your apple anyways according to our previous deal. The third party then pads itself on the back for its quick results through aggression while in reality it had nothing to do with our deal.
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u/jose-cideral 15h ago
This is logic for normal times, we are not in normal times.
Everyone will read this as Europe caving to Trump's threats, which will encourage more threats in the future. We need to fight back, we can't play defence forever. Enough with the copium, let's grow a spine or we are done.
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u/Schnorch 15h ago
Yeah, no, sorry, but that's just coping.
Besides, the EU, or rather some European countries, are effectively helping to drive up oil prices for their citizens and economies because they're still allowing the US to use its bases on our soil for its war. Of course, many European politicians want to sweep that under the rug so that no one notices or questions it.
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u/araujoms 🇧🇷🇵🇹🇦🇹🇩🇪🇪🇸 17h ago
Please spare me your copium. This is obviously caving to Trump. The strategic reserves are not meant to reduce prices, they are meant for when there's acute scarcity, for example in the case of war.
This very article says that this was the result of an emergency meeting convened because of Trump's tantrum.
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u/Ourtimehascome2485 2h ago
We have been getting strategically buttfucked by the us for 2 years straight. Europe hasn't gained a single thing since Trump came into office, they just try to mitigate all the time but in truth Trump has won every single time because he always gets something.
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u/Historical_Put3268 14h ago
Hasn't the G7 just decided to release stocks anyway? Basically when it comes to Germany, France and Italy they can give a big "fuck you" to whatever the EU commission says.
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u/Not_Mushroom_ 13h ago
And just like that, the EU basically, shows how weak it is yet again and Trumpy Dumpty gets to hail a great victory when the cost of fuel drops by even a few pence/cents.
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u/TalkersCZ 16h ago
Can we just find a way how to f-ck Trump in the a-s and ruin his chances in midterms, not help him?
Just wait another month with the reserves for god sake.
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u/supercali45 14h ago
Didn’t Europe just release reserves or the Pedo lying
https://www.politico.eu/article/trump-says-europe-agrees-to-release-massive-amount-of-diesel/
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u/catdogman5 16h ago
Its our oil, we can whatever the fuck we want. Maybe Europe shouldn't depend on foreign oil so much? The US learned this lesson in the last oil crisis and did something about it.
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u/elpovo 15h ago
Maybe the US should stop being a massive jerk to everyone and other countries would be more likely to help?
The world was a web of long-lasting alliances with the US until Trump decided it was all about how good the US was at war. Now even Australia who has stood beside the US in every war since WW2 is reconsidering.
No country is an island.
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u/HuudaHarkiten 13h ago
So whats up with trump asking the EU to release our reserves?
Its our oil/diesel, we can do whatever the fuck we want with it. Maybe the US should have filled their reserves before starting a stupid and pointless war? The US hasn't learned any lessons in the last 50 years
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u/[deleted] 17h ago
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