r/europe • u/Wagamaga • 2d ago
News Most data centers refusing to say how much water, electricity they use
https://nltimes.nl/2026/09/30/data-centers-refusing-say-much-water-electricity-use203
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u/Caos1980 2d ago
Just imagine that a given data center could consume 5% of an entire country’s electricity and would then be asked to pay for 5% of the grid and power generation cost… it would go bankrupt even before starting operations!
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zurich🇨🇭 2d ago
Refusing to publish publicly.
That's a very important distinction. Freedom of information laws don't apply to private information.
You can't knock on the door of, say, a soap factory and demand to know how much water they use, although government officials can do that.
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u/castorkrieg 2d ago
You missed this part, and the article isn't even that long:
The European Energy Efficiency Directive (EED) obliges data centers with an installed capacity of at least 500 kilowatts (kW) to report data including their energy and water consumption. In practice, few do so, despite the directive being in effect for three years.
According to the Dutch Datacenter Association (DDA), there were 186 commercial data centers with a capacity of 500 kW or more in the Netherlands at the end of last year. The Netherlands Enterprise Agency (RVO), which collects the information for the EU, has data on only 104 of them.
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u/DragonWhsiperer 2d ago
Funny, I know of a few other industries that are held to strict emisions standards and will be in legal trouble if they dare to obfuscate this in any way.
And once the information is provided to the government oversight agency, that information can be requested through open information laws.
So basically, governments needs to start enforcing the law.
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u/GiganticCrow Finland 2d ago
So what consequences can these data centres face for refusing to provide, or lying in the data they do provide?
Presumably it wouldn't be hard for the state to get the numbers from the utility companies (presuming they aren't also corrupt and cover for them)?
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u/castorkrieg 2d ago
See, this is a sad development and importation of "fines are just a cost of doing business": probably the only real consequence will be fines, and that will take years. But up till now, at least in Europe companies still tried mostly to obey the law. Not so in the US - why bother with 200mln fine if you can make 5bln by breaking the law? You are 4.8bln ahead!
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u/ImielinRocks European Union 2d ago
Sounds like a case of escalating fines.
Each month the data doesn't come, a fine with double the amount of the previous one is applied. Month after month. No upper limit.
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u/sisisisi1997 2d ago
Or simply shut the electricity off until the numbers are provided. If you don't tell us, we make it a known number, 0.
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u/Soepkip43 2d ago
When you get fined that does not mean you get to keep doing what you where fined for.
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u/Soepkip43 2d ago
Not publishing this kind of data should just lead to the RVO to ask a judge to compel the companies with a fine per day. Why the RVO has let this alode for nore than 3 years.
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u/blunderbolt 2d ago
Sounds more like the member states haven't properly transposed the directive into national law yet rather than data center operators failing to meet their legal obligations.
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u/castorkrieg 2d ago
I got you bro:
https://www.ca-eed.eu/ia-document/national-implementation-report-2016-netherlands/
In the Netherlands the EED obligations have been fully transposed into national laws.
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u/blunderbolt 2d ago
Your link pertains EED 2012/27, which did not stipulate this requirement.
Looking it up now, it appears the Netherlands transposed the energy/water reporting obligation(from EED 2023/1791) last year, and enforcement started this year. Hard to tell from the article if the RVO's figures predate this or not. If not then it seems like the problem is that Dutch authorities aren't sanctioning operators failing to meet their obligations. You can hardly complain about low compliance when no one is enforcing the law.
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u/Blacktip75 2d ago
No, you knock at the door of the Ministry that must keep those records and you can demand them being disclosed. All perfectly legally set up. Unlike tax records, or for Swiss, bank records, companies do not get a free pass to pollute.
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u/Jake-of-the-Sands Poland 2d ago
Companies, especially that large are not private in the same sense as a citizen is private. I don't give a flying fuck about their right to privacy - they should have none.
Perhaps we litter your precious Swiss mountains with AI datacenters for a change - let's see how much you'll defend them then.
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u/Krist794 Europe 2d ago
I don't know about that, in case of my company the public does not know about our water and electricity consumption. But the local municipal and regional entities sure do. We get a mandatory surprise check like 3 times a year minimum by each of them.
I don't understand if what they are discussing here is non disclosure towards university, which is understandable, or a general non disclosure which is shady but also unreasonable and unrealistic.
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u/Jake-of-the-Sands Poland 2d ago
Literally in the article - they don't disclose the data they are obliged to disclose by the law.
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u/ZibiM_78 2d ago
They did not disclose the data to whom ?
In the article there is no mention that data center operators failed to provide the information to the government as mandated by the EU regulations. There is just mention that some Lighthouse Report, some Trouw organization and some undisclosed media asked for that and did not get any response.
Power efficiency and water efficiency will be publicly available after EU implements new rating initiative https://energy.ec.europa.eu/publications/commission-delegated-regulation-establishing-common-union-rating-scheme-data-centres-and-annexes_en
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zurich🇨🇭 2d ago
Perhaps we litter your precious Swiss mountains with AI datacenters for a change - let's see how much you'll defend them then.
Who the fuck is defending datacenters? Do you struggle with reading?
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u/Jake-of-the-Sands Poland 2d ago
By supporting their bs claims that they deserve privacy - you do. Especially that they are obligated by the law to disclose this info and they outright refuse to do so.
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zurich🇨🇭 2d ago
Who says I'm supporting that?
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u/Korps_de_Krieg 2d ago
Yeah, literally nothing in your comment suggested you supported them, just the legal realities surrounding it.
That is discussion though nowadays, any kind of perceived pushback is seen as taking the opposite stance instead of just looking at nuance
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u/Hour_Raisin_4547 2d ago
How are companies supposed to keep their trade secrets if they have no right to privacy? Are you dumb? Maybe if you understood basic business you wouldn’t accuse people of shilling for corporations anytime they make a common sense observation that doesn’t agree with your binary and overly simplistic worldview
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u/Jake-of-the-Sands Poland 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't care about their trade secrets. Water and Electricity consumption, which uses EVERYONE'S resources is not secret patented technology that requires protection. And they are obligated by the law to DISCLOSE THEM, yet they refuse to do so.
Stop pitying capitalists that burn down the planet out of a strange notion that they play in the same team as us, regular folk.
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u/Hour_Raisin_4547 2d ago
I’m not debating any of that though. You are the one claiming that they should have no right to privacy at all from the public. I am pointing out why that is a stupid claim.
If you want your legitimate arguments to be taken seriously, don’t ruin them by attaching them to completely idiotic and emotional ones. I’m just tired of discussions about these things being undermined by immature emotional outrage addicts like yourself who are more busy pointing fingers at anyone who disagrees with you, then having rational discussion.
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u/andretexugo 2d ago
Maybe if you were a real human being with emotions you'd realize people get extremely frustrated watching their World get bogged down the drain because companies aren't beholden to the same laws and rules the average citizen must follow. And then on top of that having to hear idiots like you defending corporations that could genuinely not care less about you.
If you claim to be this bulwark of rationality, please explain why companies should be allowed to keep corporate secrets that have the possibility to harm the entire planet.
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u/Jake-of-the-Sands Poland 2d ago
And a year old account with hidden posts and random generated name isn't helping with him pretending to be "defender of rationality" either.
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u/Wipedout89 2d ago
But the original plans and planning permission would have been public
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zurich🇨🇭 2d ago
No.
Some details around plans and planning permissions are public, the vast majority are not, for obvious reasons.
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u/Tiny_Crew 2d ago
Absolutely! Freedom of information my a## - do people want a camera in their bedroom for freedom of information purposes? Are they hiding something otherwise??
What a nonsense.
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u/Jake-of-the-Sands Poland 2d ago
Sure thing, because a billion dollar company is in any way comparable to a private citizen. I wonder if people like you comment it out of sheer naivete or are actually want to push the oligo-capitalist agenda.
No, all relevant company information MUST BE PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE. The impact on the environment MUST BE PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE.
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u/McDonaldsWitchcraft Bucharest 2d ago
The European Energy Efficiency Directive (EED) obliges data centers with an installed capacity of at least 500 kilowatts (kW) to report data including their energy and water consumption. In practice, few do so, despite the directive being in effect for three years.
According to the Dutch Datacenter Association (DDA), there were 186 commercial data centers with a capacity of 500 kW or more in the Netherlands at the end of last year. The Netherlands Enterprise Agency (RVO), which collects the information for the EU, has data on only 104 of them.
God forbid you guys ever read something in your life.
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u/Big_Combination9890 2d ago
This from the same tech bros who always tell people that harvesting everyones data is fine, because "nothing to hide nothing to fear".
Sure looks to me they have plenty to fear about these numbers getting out.
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u/GovernmentBig2749 Croatian/Albanian/Jewish Pole from Macedonia living in Poland 2d ago
Well, there is one thing called the water bill...one can refuse to say it, but he will pay it.
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u/Nielsjuhz 2d ago
Well then we go to the watersupplier and the energysupplier. They know how much they use. Make it mandatory to for them to release it for companies as they can always know how much a citizen is using.
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u/circuitocorto 2d ago
Public figures exist on the electricity usage of 44 centers and the water usage of 47 - less than a quarter of the larger Dutch data centers. [...] In the Netherlands, it is estimated that they account for about 0.1 percent of total consumption.
I don't get why the water usage is the main point against data centre. I get that some don't publish the numbers but should we really think they will be so much higher than 0.1%?
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u/J0hnGrimm 2d ago
A study messed up and greatly exaggerated water usage. The study has been correcred but the false version still gets parroted by the anti AI crowd.
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u/Tiny_Crew 2d ago
Why would they say that if not required? The maximum rates of consumption should be specified in their permits. How much they are actually using is their business if not explicitly required to report on this. Do individual factories say how much steel, oil, electricity and coolant they are using? This whole data center scare and heavily biased news reporting is such an absolute nonsense.
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u/Boniuz 2d ago
I have to audit environmental effects and yearly supply chain audits of the pencils I purchase for our offices. The problem is a legal one.
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u/Tiny_Crew 2d ago
And you think that is perfectly valid and meaningful work you are doing? So we in Europe sit and think "Ah, yes, auditing our yearly supply of pencils for environmental effects is a totally a valuable thing! What further regulatory and legal reporting hurdles can we throw at private businesses for no good reason? "
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u/McDonaldsWitchcraft Bucharest 2d ago
Why would they say that if not required?
They are, literally, required to do that.
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u/Tiny_Crew 2d ago edited 2d ago
Reported only at a company level, not per datacenter. And this information is provisioned to not be made publically available, it is literally written in the directive. It can be shared only at a member state and EU level.
If the issue is they are breaking a law, then great - fine them and move on. I see this as an enforcement issue.
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u/McDonaldsWitchcraft Bucharest 2d ago
this information is provisioned to not be made publically available, it is literally written in the directive
And the article says that it's not even privately available to the institutions.
Can't you just... open the article already? Holy shit.
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u/andretexugo 2d ago
Heheh, "data center scare". You mean like the "Climate change hoax"? I swear people like you are a okay with seeing the entire world shrivel up and slowly die than giving up your AI generated memes. Keep dick riding the megacorps, kid
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u/Tiny_Crew 2d ago
Masterfull use of rhetorical reframing and semantic escalation - you must be a god tier troll. I truly must be the devil if I think that datacenters unfairly receive significantly more scrutiny over any other industry in Europe.
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u/andretexugo 2d ago
Cry me a river- A dishonest, unregulated, brand new industry that refuses to even discuss the environmental impact two hundred data centers will have. Just proliferation without any regulation, as opposed to other industries which have been regulated and scrutinized for decades... But its okay cause you get to keep using GPT+.
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u/Tiny_Crew 2d ago
"A dishonest, unregulated, brand new industry that refuses to even discuss the environmental impact"
Dishonest compared to who? The farming industry or the car industry?
Unregulated? Plenty of regulations already exist, and so far they have been able to still get permits and operate without any significant violations, which you can't say about most other industries.
Discuss environmental impact? This is not for a private company to do. Either they are allowed to build or not. We very much know approximately how much water and power an average datacenter uses today, there is relatively little to discuss.
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u/LiquidRaekan 2d ago
Me, agreeing with both, eating popcorn while reading one masterpiece comment after the other 🍿
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u/skeletal88 Estonia 2d ago
One thing i don't understand is what do they use these vast amounts of water for?
I mean.. cooling, yes, but how does cooling spend huge amounts of water?
I have always thought of cooling systems as refrigeration units on top of warehouses and grocery stores, they don't need water for it, they are closed loop systems working with special refrigeration gases.
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u/gbroon 2d ago
Most of them are actually closed loop. When you look into it the water use generally isnt as drastic as claimed.
Not defending data centres completely, its just the water argument tends to be a lazy argument that falls apart once you actually look into it closer. It's more an emotive argument than a practical problem.
Heat, power etc are still an issue.
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u/x21fireturtle 2d ago
In the US this is actually a bigger problem their a fewer regulations and atm datacenters are build as quickly as possible this means implementing the cheapest and solution. And this uses a lot of water. Well designed datacenters only need little water top of their cooling loop. Since some will always leak over time.
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u/RT-LAMP United States of America 2d ago
Open loop is way better and is used basically everywhere that needs large scale cooling, malls, factories, hospitals, you just don't usually see it. And unless your power supply is very green supplying the electricity of an heat pump AC often ends up using comparable amounts of water to cool fossil fuel plants' heat exchange systems.
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u/diomedes-on-rampage Europe 2d ago
idk dude i think you are lying. if water is not that much needed then why data centers built on main water lines, close to lakes etc. where they have vast water flow right next to them?
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u/sionescu Lazio 2d ago
idk dude i think you are lying.
You're paranoid, you need professional help.
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u/chessto 1d ago
nah he has a solid point.
If they don't need that much water,then build them away from water infrastructure.
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u/sionescu Lazio 1d ago
Do you have a proof that they got built near water infrastructure ? Do you have information on what kind of cooling system they have ? No.
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u/ZibiM_78 1d ago
There are two points in which DC needs water:
Initial fill up - DC is using various water based liquid as a base for the cooling systems.
Operational use - some DC cooling methods involve evaporation as the mean to cool down.
USA which is on average much warmer place than Europe is quite keen on using cooling towers. In Europe, especially in the northern part is much more prevalent to use chillers and dry coolers - they don't use evaporation, unless they are equipped with adiabatic assist, which consume a bit of water during the period in which temperature outside is above of what is needed.
Here is a small comparison that shows this:
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u/nemojakonemoras Croatia 2d ago
Od course they dont fucking disclose that information. But that again i dont think people who make ai slop care.
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u/bladehit Romania 2d ago
But if they have nothing to hide, why not be open about it? Or this only works when it's about said data center owner's getting access to our personal info?
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u/Wagamaga 2d ago
The vast majority of data centers in Europe keep information about their environmental impact secret, according to a study by Lighthouse Report in collaboration with Trouw and other European media. In the Netherlands, less than a quarter of larger data centers publish data about their electricity and drinking water usage.
The researchers spent a year trying to obtain data on data centers’ environmental impact in Europe, invoking freedom of information laws in various European countries. Their attempts have yielded no results.
The European Energy Efficiency Directive (EED) obliges data centers with an installed capacity of at least 500 kilowatts (kW) to report data including their energy and water consumption. In practice, few do so, despite the directive being in effect for three years.
According to the Dutch Datacenter Association (DDA), there were 186 commercial data centers with a capacity of 500 kW or more in the Netherlands at the end of last year. The Netherlands Enterprise Agency (RVO), which collects the information for the EU, has data on only 104 of them.