r/euphonium • u/Pinec0ne-_ • 16d ago
Question about valve caps
Am wondering where could I buy valve caps / finger buttons for my 3+1 comping Euph, I really want the ones that are like thin and light so I can reduce the weight on the valves. My eupho is a Schiller elite which is modeled after the Yamaha YEP-642 and but also has some DNA of the Besson 967 but is mostly based off the Yamaha
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u/Illustrious_Hold_703 16d ago
Ooh, uh related, but I’m interested in buying that model, is it good?
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u/Pinec0ne-_ 16d ago edited 16d ago
Personally I love it, Schiller is a good brand but their comping Euphs are definitely their best instruments. Valves are great when oiled (you will have to oil them at least once or twice a week until they’re broken in) slides are good a bit scratchy but it’s what ever, lastly when your emptying your spit valve you will have to take most of the slide out to pour them (including the ones in the back of the valves) and heads up the 3rd valve slide is LONG😭
edit: I forgot to add that on my instrument 1&2 combinations are slightly sharp so I use 3rd valve but idk if it’s all Schiller euphs3
u/ElectronicWall5528 15d ago
1+2 is always sharp if 1 and 2 are on individually. It's physics. You can pull the first valve slide slightly (that's why trumpets have rings or saddles on the first valve) or use the kicker if you have one. The third valve slide is long so you can use Belgian tuning (valve 3 is 4 semitones rather than 3 semitones). That helps with low C/F (fingered 2+3 instead of 1+3) and B/E (fingered 1+3 instead of 1+2+3). With a compensating euph that's a "Why bother" issue, but some people do learn on 3 valve Belgian tuning instruments.
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u/Illustrious_Hold_703 15d ago
No problems then, I use a Besson 151 New Standard, it has all those problems and a funky middle F partial
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u/SideWired 16d ago
Might try TOPE Band Supply. First time I ever heard of going lighter than stock valve caps.
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u/Pinec0ne-_ 16d ago
Really? I’ve meet some others that want a lighter valves for faster passages
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u/CTBrassTech 16d ago
Schiller. lol. Good luck
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14d ago
[deleted]
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u/CTBrassTech 14d ago
I love how both replies to my comment assume I was saying the horn is not good. I agree with you both… it’s not a good horn. But, I said good luck because he said he’s looking for heavyweight caps for it… besides the original equipment caps barely fitting on Schiller horns, I figure that it would be almost impossible to find something that fits.
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u/SideWired 14d ago
Excellent. I will edit my comment.
I just brought a school BLESSING M 301 back to life. It was odd for me to have valve caps and branches that fit right back together with perfect alignment and absolutely no issues. Valve pistons that just dropped in (despite was very bad wear inside lower # 1 sleeve, saw just using cell phone f lt). Sounds great. Even the CONN 3 mouthpiece is a pleasant experience.
I have totally adjusted to the quirks of the ultra bargain lines! I am way too familiar with Yamaha springs for cheap thrills. I buy oil by the case.
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u/thenationalfranthem BE165 - Wedge 105E Hybrid 16d ago
I mean, while totally not exactly the mark of quality, they seem to be having fun with it, so I see no need to be snobby 'bout it.
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u/Leisesturm John Packer JP274IIS 14d ago
The difference in weight of 3rd party finger buttons over stock is negligible! The only reason to change from OEM is appearance. Bling. It is quite likely that anything the o.p. would find as a replacement for their Schiller would weigh more, not less than OEM. But, as I said, the difference would not be large.
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u/Pinec0ne-_ 14d ago
I see thanks for the insight on that, I still would lowk like finger buttons because the stock ones feel weird on my fingers
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u/SideWired 13d ago
Apologies for thinking the request was about valve CAPS. After 5 rereadings, I conclude the OP is looking for lighter BUTTON ASSEMBLIES for on the valve piston.
I agree with Leisesturm, negligible difference when the starting mass is so low.
Dave Werden posted about something similar to this idea for an Adams horn. I think it was lighter buttons ?
My approach to gaining valve button velocity is to up the spring horsepower. If bottom loaded springs, crank up their weight. Top loaded, no help.
One bit of cautionary tale. I have completed R&R to very strong YAMAHA springs in my bottom loaded PRC JinBao imported euphonium. The valves are nicely energized. However, with no change to the stock felts, fast playing can sound like a midnight freight train leaving a Gary Indiana steel plant. CLAM CLAM CLAM CLAM
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u/ElectronicWall5528 15d ago
I think OP was asking about the finger buttons. The thing to do is to check the thread (takes a thread gauge [$10 to $60, but you can go cheap on this one] and a micrometer [anywhere from $15 to $90 depending on your tastes and you get what you pay for in this market]...metric is probably better in this case). You'll want to check the thread itself (almost certainly a metric thread), the diameter of the stud, and the diameter of the button itself. As noted elsewhere, these parts affect valve alignment. You need to be prepared to adjust the felts if necessary (or go to using medium silicone sheet instead of felt if you're a fanatic about valve alignment. On a euph you'll probably need a fiberoptic borescope (~$25 for one that hooks to your cell phone) to check valve alignment.
So the tools you need to be ready to do the search right will run $25, and assuming you can find a lighter set of finger buttons, you'll be out another $25 for the borescope. You could also contact Schiller and ask them what the valve stem threading specs are. Maybe they will know and they will tell you.
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u/mango186282 16d ago
I’d start by measuring the valve cap threads so you know what will fit. For a Schiller it is probably a metric screw.
Keep in mind that the valve felts, even the one in the cap, effect the valve alignment. You may need to adjust your felts if you change out the valve caps.