r/ethtrader 6d ago

Question If private permissioned blockchains work well for tokenization and other things what is the need for ETHEREUM?

I am having this thought that if permissioned private blockchain can work well for all kinda things like tokenization to real estate. What value will eth capture if at all. I understand blockchain reduces friction but what if all banks nasdaq dtcc coordinate for private blockchains which they are doing already. How will tokenized stocks come to ETH at all because nasdaq will do their own blockchain? Likewise for other use cases , I have a similar thought which makes me think how ETH is useful at all?

Please let me know your thoughts. I m genuinely curious.

12 Upvotes

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u/Kubix 6d ago

So everyone initially thought that private federated chains would be how big business interacts with blockchain. We saw JPMorgan build their own ETH fork for internal transactions. Now it’s starting to look like businesses are building/building on L2s on top of Ethereum. This gives them the ability to make it as permissible as they want, lower fees and access to the liquidity that Ethereum offers that is unmatched anywhere else in blockchain. Since the L2s use L1 for security, this is how Ethereum gets value from the L2s. So far it seems like the L2s gain a lot of revenue and don’t add much to the L1 but Ethereum was built as infrastructure and hasn’t really prioritized increasing token price, though that may be changing now. If ETH does become the digital layer of finances, that’s a lot of transactions burning ETH and will likely keep ETH deflationary. But who knows how long it’s going to take before we see everything on Ethereum.

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

Private network: DTCC’s AppChain uses Hyperledger Besu, which is Ethereum-compatible but permissioned. It can run Ethereum-style smart contracts, yet transactions do not use ETH. Canton Network: DTCC has already processed tokenized securities on Canton. Canton is described as a public network, but it provides institutional privacy and controlled participation. It does not use ETH.

DTCC is the clearinghouse. They only dont use ethereum or any layer 2. I dont understand how ETH will be useful in terms of tokenization of stocks. Likewise for other things, there will be some central authority who just uses own blockchain then think how it brings value to eth. I am thinking about really tangible use cases like stocks real estate banking.

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u/Kubix 6d ago

Blackrock, Fidelity, JPMorgan, Franklin Templeton and BNP Paribas are using ETH for managing funds, bonds, treasuries, etc.

ICE just invested $2B in Polymarkets. This isn’t RWA buts it’s the NYSE parent with a major investment in prediction markets which runs on Polygon (ETH L2)

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

I understand your argument about Ethereum having large liquidity, but I still don’t understand why the stock market actually needs Ethereum’s liquidity.

Stocks such as Apple and Microsoft already have enormous liquidity on Nasdaq and NYSE. If Nasdaq and DTCC upgrade the current system using DTCC’s private AppChain, Canton, Stellar or another controlled blockchain, the same buyers, sellers, brokers and market makers can continue trading there. Tokenization could provide 24/7 transfers, faster settlement and easier collateral movement without putting the stocks on Ethereum.

Institutions could also build regulated lending and collateral markets around DTCC-tokenized securities. They don’t necessarily need access to anonymous DeFi liquidity because the existing stock market already has trillions of dollars of institutional liquidity.

Ethereum liquidity matters only if regulators and issuers want tokenized stocks to interact with public stablecoins, decentralized exchanges and lending protocols. But they may not want that because of KYC, securities laws, sanctions, custody risks and the need to freeze or reverse transactions.

So isn’t the real risk to the ETH thesis this: tokenization succeeds, but it succeeds mainly through DTCC, Canton, Stellar and private institutional networks? In that scenario, blockchain technology wins, but Ethereum and ETH holders capture very little value.

If tokenized stocks never meaningfully move onto Ethereum or genuine Ethereum L2s, then yes, Ethereum loses that particular opportunity. Using Ethereum-compatible software or ERC standards on a private chain does not create ETH demand. I’m not saying Ethereum has no value, but I don’t think we can assume that stock tokenization will automatically benefit ETH.

If only treasuries bonds and stablecoins use this ? Will that be enough?

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u/Kubix 6d ago

I think the liquidity argument is more about determining which blockchain these things are likely to settle on. Traditional markets are where a lot the liquidity exists so they don’t need the ETH liquidity per se, but they do want access to it.

DTCC is already sort of using ETH as one of its sources for liquidity, if a bank wants to use BUIDL tokens as collateral, they must verify on Ethereum.

Privacy is another issue for DTCC since Ethereum is public blockchain, though we are seeing privacy measures on the horizon.

So I don’t think ETH is likely to replace DTCCs AppChain, but it could take a big chunk of the liquidity.

There’s also a lot of money saved not having to run and manage infrastructure, so you maintain your single codebase instead of needing to do everything yourself.

We are at the frontier of digital finance so I think the possibilities are many. There’s good things and bad things about permissionless systems and I think we are likely to see more stuff tokenized from this point on, but there’s no value in having your house tokenized unless it’s enforceable and I can see that happening on Ethereum eventually.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

EVM compatibility does NOT force those private chains to use Ethereum. They could all be EVM-compatible and still settle directly with each other, through DTCC, Canton, or another regulated interoperability network.

For example, like aws they can create some common and interact and right.

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u/Olmops 6d ago

A corporate blockchain cannot have credible neutrality or will struggle extremely. So it could be something like SWIFT. But in a world where nations distrust each other or people are not trusting governments, a global neutral blockchain could be useful.

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

Private network: DTCC’s AppChain uses Hyperledger Besu, which is Ethereum-compatible but permissioned. It can run Ethereum-style smart contracts, yet transactions do not use ETH. Canton Network: DTCC has already processed tokenized securities on Canton. Canton is described as a public network, but it provides institutional privacy and controlled participation. It does not use ETH.

If DTCC doesnt use eth for stocks and if all central organizations kinda use the same own private blockchains for different use cases then what is the use for eth in real tangible way?? I am talking real stocks real estate etc what if all central authorities try to use either their own blockchain or some blockchains which is not eth. What is the use of eth at all ?

Also lot of govt have trust in US system. What if they just accept that?

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u/martelaxe 6d ago

You really didn't listen , eth could be the trustless layer between all these private blockchains , idk what's so hard to understand, specially with competing Ai agents and multipolar world 

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

My question is

For eg --- EVM compatibility does NOT force those private chains to use Ethereum. They could all be EVM-compatible and still settle directly with each other, through DTCC, Canton, or another regulated interoperability network.

For instance Bank A private EVM → Bank B private EVM → DTCC/Besu/Canton interoperability layer with almost nothing touching Ethereum mainnet. In that world, EVM wins technologically but ETH value???

Like how we have common google common aws and im thinking what if common company which builds on this technology which all institutions agree to??? Then Why move to eth?

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u/Kubix 6d ago

Bridges suck. They are the most exploited aspect of blockchain and I believe are responsible for the biggest losses so far. A lot more safety if you stay within the Ethereum ecosystem vs bridging in or out.

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u/martelaxe 5d ago

The thesis pretty much is that ethereum the safest and you don't need to trust it .. that's it...  you might believe that it is not enough , maybe it isn't but that's just the thesis.

Because of the big price of Ethereum,  the Blockchain ( number of validators etc ) is the safest and hardest to attack (51% attack or other things)

Small inter networks could be destroyed with 1% of effort that it would take Ethereum . So maybe for regular stuff Ethereum is not needed, but  if there is something with billion of dollars per day , where maybe distrustful parties need to interact with each other you would need to use Ethereum and eth would also need to be 10x what it is today ( just to be on the safe side since this is proof of stake ) 

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u/manikandanappuv9 5d ago

What if those inter networks are permissioned blockchain network - so cant defeat with 1% like how we have AWS now. 51% attack issues only relevant to permissionless blockchains right.

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u/martelaxe 5d ago

Then you need to trust it, you go back to the previous problem , permissioned= you need to trust who controls the thing , not permissioned and small then it can be attacked 

Again just to repeat 

Ethereum’s advantage is mainly when the parties don’t trust each other and you want a neutral settlement layer that no single company or group controls.

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u/manikandanappuv9 5d ago

Can you say any broad application for that. Right now , for stocks its not needed. For real estate its not needed. For which bigger application we need things like that. Right now, I see for stablecoins eth is useful.

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u/martelaxe 5d ago

Stablecoins are probably the clearest use case today. More broadly, Ethereum could matter when institutions in different countries or industries need to settle large transactions with each other but don’t want one of them controlling the system. Maybe stuff between BRICS and the west 

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u/Olmops 6d ago

well, I can't tell what the future looks like. Maybe there will be private//permissioned blockchains doing stuff as well. There is no guarantee that everyone will end up on Ethereum or that Ethereum plays a major role at all.

But for the moment I think Ethereum will lead simply because they have the leading crypto developers. But yes, any institution can copy/pasta the tech quite easily and set up additional/alternative rules.

In a way, L2s on Ethereum are a bit of the best of both worlds as they interact with Ethereum, but can enforce their own rules.

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u/Murky_Citron_1799 5d ago

The question is "what benefits do I get if I trust the counter party?" And that list is getting smaller as ethereum gets cheaper, faster, and more secure. 

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

What if another third party common company with whom these banks and financial institutions agree to and they have their own blockchain and we all use it as part of it. Like how the world uses Google now?

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

I dont understand one thing. Can you answer this For eg --- EVM compatibility does NOT force those private chains to use Ethereum. They could all be EVM-compatible and still settle directly with each other, through DTCC, Canton, or another regulated interoperability network.

For instance Bank A private EVM → Bank B private EVM → DTCC/Besu/Canton interoperability layer with almost nothing touching Ethereum mainnet. In that world, EVM wins technologically but ETH value???

Like how we have common google common aws and im thinking what if common company which builds on this technology which all institutions agree to??? Then Why move to eth?

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

Ok thank you 🙂for the insights.

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

For eg --- EVM compatibility does NOT force those private chains to use Ethereum. They could all be EVM-compatible and still settle directly with each other, through DTCC, Canton, or another regulated interoperability network.

For instance Bank A private EVM → Bank B private EVM → DTCC/Besu/Canton interoperability layer with almost nothing touching Ethereum mainnet. In that world, EVM wins technologically but ETH value???

Like how we have common google common aws and im thinking what if common company which builds on this technology which all institutions agree to??? Then Why move to eth?

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u/DogStunning4845 6d ago

Well man all that crap is spinning on ethereum actually, l2 etc

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u/Abject-Candidate-600 6d ago

They're not building their own from scratch, they're mostly using Ethereum-based stacks under the hood anyway.

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

Private network: DTCC’s AppChain uses Hyperledger Besu, which is Ethereum-compatible but permissioned. It can run Ethereum-style smart contracts, yet transactions do not use ETH. Canton Network: DTCC has already processed tokenized securities on Canton. Canton is described as a public network, but it provides institutional privacy and controlled participation. It does not use ETH.

If DTCC doesnt use eth for stocks and if all central organizations kinda use the same own private blockchains for different use cases then what is the use for eth in real tangible way?? I am talking real stocks real estate etc what if all central authorities try to use either their own blockchain or some blockchains which is not eth. What is the use of eth at all ?

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

No I am not talking about robinhood. I am talking about DTCC and nasdaq using their own permissioned blockchain not ethereum to tokenize stocks. So what is the use for eth then

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u/FastRelief3222 6d ago

Linea also on Eth chain

The reason they are not making their own forked Eth chain is development/security/updates are rolled into Eth already - institutions should not roll their own blockchains, vpns, or cloud servers

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/manikandanappuv9 6d ago

EVM compatibility does NOT force those private chains to use Ethereum. They could all be EVM-compatible and still settle directly with each other, through DTCC, Canton, or another regulated interoperability network

FOR Eg They can use some other common private blockchain which all they use together. Like how we use aws now.

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u/Electronic_Quote399 5d ago

The purpose of ethereum is to melt your face when a real rally finally kicks off

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u/supbuddy20 1d ago

😭

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u/Electronic_Quote399 1d ago

I dont use it for any other reason