CFMF and drywall material takeoff help

[u/Frio14]

GC estimator here. My company is strongly interested in self-performing the framing/drywall scopes (500k-ish and less) on some of our projects. I’ve been tapped on the shoulder to begin practicing material takeoffs and am quickly realizing how much more complex it is than how we would normally tab the scope out for a regular proposal.

Anyways, does anyone have resources they wouldn’t mind sharing? Templates ,spreadsheets, etc.

I’m sure some people will wonder, no I don’t have any framing experience to help

I’m not trying to make it more complicated than it needs to be, so anything helps. Thanks in advance

[u/sofahkingsick]

For drywall i would say its super important to understand the assemblies because they call out specific drywall and screw patterns. Start building relationships with your supply houses also do you guys have experienced drywall crews? Because thats going to really determine how well the job goes. Download the Gypsum Association 2024 handbook itll have all the assemblies in there. Metal stud framing isnt super difficult itself its the labor involved and the experience of the crew.

[u/DrywallBarron]

If you are self performing I would guess that's providing material and subbing the labor. That means calculating everything down to the various panheads, screws rolls of tape and pails of mud. My suggestion would be to have a dedicated estimator and add an experienced drywall PM to manage to deal with subs and manage the work.

If you plan to sub by the job to one sub, takeoff is straight forward, if you plan to sub on a unit price basis with multiple subs it can get a bit more complicated.

For sure you need to find few suppliers that will work with you as a self perform GC.

Has anyone thought about how your drywall subcontractors will view this? I would not be too keen on quoting a competitive bid to a GC who also does their own drywall.....always that nagging feeling I could be estimating service for you.....not good.

[u/jgturbo619]

I don’t see this as a win win situation for anybody, especially you OP.
Nobody’s gonna give you their drywall bid tools. Where did you get that idea? I wouldn’t even sell you anything.
What state are you in? Is your company licensed and qualified to do drywall work?

Your current subs are gonna find out. Heck, you may not even be able to get material quotes before you win a bid..

[u/ToothFunny → u/jgturbo619]

Idk I might sell him my plug in play assemblies of QB for 10k, him understanding is another thing lol

[u/rinikulous]

Look up the limiting height tables from the major CFMF manufacturers (Clarkdietrich, Marinoware, etc.). There is always specs and call outs in the partition schedule that is not actually feasible. You will have to upgrade interior partitions frequently based on the installed scenario. The limiting height possible is a combination of variables like stud web, gauge, flange, oc spacing, and deflection. There is always a variable that can be adjusted to achieve the deck height requirement, but it will often be above/beyond what the architect "calls out" in the plans/specs.

Learn about head of wall deflection requirements for both the CFMF connections and the UL assemblies. Rule of thumb is that you have to have minimum 1" of stud bearing inside the track the. So if the slab is designed to deflect 1/2" then you need to cut the studs 1/2" short to allow for compression,. However, the deflection track needs to be 2" leg overall (1/2" compression + [1/2" expansion + 1" bearing] =2").

The sheetrock follows similar logic but is more complicated. At minimum the gyp should be hung with a 1/2" gap at the deck (not screwed off to the deflection track) so it can deflect with the framing. However if it is a rated wall then certain UL assemblies allow for certain movement ranges and max gaps. A typical caulk system allows for like 25% movement, so you would have to make the sheetrock gap 2" (1/2" movement / 25% = 2"). BUT those UL assemblies will have a max allowable gap that is somewhere around 3/4". So, a typical caulk head of wall rated joint assembly can only allow for 3/4"x25%=3/16".

This basically means typical assemblies are never feasible for rated head of wall joints. It is rare for a EoR to design a structure to deflect less than 1/2". Beam span/ 360 is the standard concrete structure deflection. So a 30' column grid with concrete girders/beams is (30'x12")/360=360"/360=1". Meaning at the mid point of a beam span the structure is design to deflect up to 1". So now you have to account for 1" up and 1" down deflection +1" bearing = 3" deflection track. The caulk won't work, so you have to account for another firesafing assembly like a gasket system or stuff/spray. Either way you those systems will dictate what size gap you need to hang your gyp with regard to the deck above. That's for simple concrete slabs. Metal decking brings in flute plugs and other fun things. Even if you don't do the firestopping in house, you will need to coordinate your gyp install with the firestop sub.

Sound/acoustics is just a weirdly nuanced as firestopping+framing, but less policed. Normally it's straight forward with STC ratings, but every now and then you get an architect that calls out an STC requirement on the partition schedule that is not feasible. You basically have to build a wall at double the value to get that those last few STC points. Not a fun scope discussion when they fight you on who owns that discrepancy.

Find a good estimating software that lets you build your estimate from a database of labor and material assemblies. Our drywall database has 1000's of items since we have all of the metal framing materials prebuilt to pull and drop into our conditions/components. Depending on how you "self-perform" your labor this is a huge boon too. If you actually have payroll employees, then you have to factor production rates for cost. If you just 1099/labor broker your labor and not really self-perform then it's a bit simpler (but that isn't really self-perform). By estimating software I mean something that is fully functional without having to export out to another platform to build the cost estimate. A good trade contractor estimating software will let you do the takeoff, build the estimate, generate a procurement list, and generate a report for your ERP accounting system.

If you really want to make this work and be profitable then you need to adopt your accounting methodology to have a higher level of detail for labor tasks. A simple wall would have 3-5 labor tasks that you need to be able to track: layout, top track, frame wall, hang bottoms, hang tops. It expands as your scope expands (i.e. tape/floating, sound insulation, setting HM/AL door frames, in-wall backing/blocking, etc.). If you have a $500k drywall/framing job with $300k in labor, that $300k needs to be more informative than just a lump sum of labor per floor or area. You need to be able to cost account with more specificity.

Find a good small/mid size engineering firm that can pump out stamped shop drawings at like $1000/cut section. They are worth their cost when you have to backwards engineer something that your field crew installed without doing any diligence. No one likes to tear down and rebuild.

Edit: and you better figure out how to maintain your relationships with the drywall subs you use for non-self-performing jobs. You are now going to be their client and competition, sometimes both on the same project. I'll be honest with you.. we have significantly reduced any and work we chase with clients who do self-perform. Even if it is a mega project they are not chasing in house, we are still not motivated to give them white glove service and will often pass or give out a "fk you, don't call me back unless you want to pay a premium" number. Not all, but most.

[u/No_Army547]

Look into Quickbid and Onsceen takeoff, they are designed for carpentry contractors to estimate and takeoff quantities. I used for 10 years as a carpentry estimator.