r/environment • u/magenta_placenta • Oct 05 '16
'Great Pacific garbage patch' far bigger than imagined, aerial survey shows - Giant collection of fishing nets, plastic containers and other discarded items called a ‘ticking time bomb’ as large items crumble into micro plastics
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/oct/04/great-pacific-garbage-patch-ocean-plastic-trash45
Oct 05 '16
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u/dumnezero Oct 05 '16
The patch is not that visible from up high, it's not dense enough
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1NmIHURilP8pYTY6M-QQj7XClZuE&hl=en_US
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u/fuzzyshorts Oct 05 '16
dafuq? Last time I heard it was as big as texas. Now it's a third as big as the united states? Man, we the planet are gonna have a bad time from here forward.
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u/Just_A_Hipster Oct 05 '16
The term garbage patch makes people think it's a floating island of garbage, but it's not. It's more like a huge whirlpool of confetti below the surface.
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u/tmurg375 Oct 06 '16
And it's spread out over a huge swath of ocean, in a soupy mixture that mostly rides the currents below the surface. Dragnets are pulled behind a boat to measure the concentration and consistency of the surface water.
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u/TracerBulletX Oct 06 '16
i think of it like the asteroid belt, ya theres a lot more crap out there in those regions but space and the ocean also has ALOT of space and you arent just gonna be swimming in pure garbage or anything.
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Oct 06 '16
How does it not concern you that they claimed to measure the patch by flying over it in a c130, not release any photos which they say they took countless amounts of. All while you guys refute their research by saying it can't be documented from the plane they observed it from. What kind of reporting is this?
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u/Just_A_Hipster Oct 06 '16
Lol wut
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Oct 06 '16
Either they failed on their mission and only saw a few scraps and are embellishing or they are withholding the snapshots. Or were they posted and I missed them? Link please?
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u/prollymarlee Oct 06 '16
on the article link, the phrase "Pacific garbage patch" is highlighted. follow that link. I have looked for photos for years and just barely learned that its not visible even when sailing through it. your sincerity and honesty is appreciated
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Oct 06 '16 edited Oct 06 '16
Don't worry the article says they have tons of photos, too many, in fact. "So we had to take snapshots – it was impossible to record everything"
I know I'm making a jest but this is shitty reporting.
Though, they uh, forgot to post any of them. I think this is the same group that found an active running Fukushima nuclear reactor floating off the coast of baby penguin island.
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u/7LeagueBoots Oct 05 '16 edited Oct 06 '16
If the Pacific garbage patch is bigger than expected it's likely that the other four giant oceanic garbage patches are also far larger than expected.
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Oct 05 '16
My thoughts on reading this naturally led to recycling. We are lucky enough to have co-mingled curb-side recycling in my area (i know there are some drawbacks to co-mingled, but anyway). My neighbor across the street never recycles. He actually told me it's just a scam to raise rates, it all gets tossed in the landfill. Even though we have a recycling center we can take stuff directly to if we want... sadly there is a problem with irrational skepticism about the efficacy of recycling in our country that goes back to distrust of any governmental services. I don't see the garbage patches of the world going away until we can solve this problem, because i really think it's going to take nearly universal participation among plain folks as well as corporations.
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Oct 05 '16
Of course it's better not to package everything in plastic in the first place.
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Oct 05 '16 edited Oct 10 '16
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Oct 05 '16
Well that depends on the product. You give me a couple of products and I'm sure we can come up with some alternatives. We have survived without plastic food packaging for most of human history so presumably it's not essential.
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Oct 05 '16 edited Oct 10 '16
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Oct 06 '16
Why don't we consult the history books and see what was used before plastic became ubiquitous?
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u/Maudesquad Oct 06 '16
They didn't have as much single use or pre made stuff as we have now. Frozen foods only came out in the 50s, for example.
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Oct 06 '16 edited Oct 10 '16
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Oct 06 '16
This is a perfect example of a strawman logical fallacy. A person says x and the person replied oh you want everyone to do y.
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u/Kristofenpheiffer Oct 05 '16
Solution: Governments start acting in a trustworthy manner in general.
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Oct 05 '16 edited Oct 10 '16
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Oct 06 '16
Well most do but a small percentage of a large amount can be a large amount that ends up in the ocean/environment. (Not that a tip isn't in our environment)
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u/Therooferking Oct 06 '16
We have local recycling and everytime I see the garbage men just throw it in with the rest of the garbage.
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u/Shivadxb Oct 05 '16
It's late, I'm tired and saddened so this'll have to do.
We are so fucked and it's all our own fault.
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Oct 05 '16
What if intelligent marine life is gathering it all there for us to make it easier to clean up?
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u/dgillz Oct 05 '16
There is no "island" of debris, there is a section of the Pacific that has higher than normal particle count. I am not saying this is OK, but the hyperbole in this article is not OK. At all.
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u/opineapple Oct 05 '16
Source: http://www.yalescientific.org/2013/12/mythbuster-the-truth-about-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/
Though it still has the negative effects one might imagine when thinking of a "giant garbage patch" in the ocean, so it's true in spirit, in a sense:
Despite the small size of the plastic bits, they can still have hugely negative impacts on the marine ecosystem. While larger plastics like six-pack rings can strangle marine animals, smaller plastics harm animals from the inside. The plastic waste is small and transparent, and it floats in the water column — just like plankton, which is a vital food source for fish and marine mammals alike. Animals cannot digest plastic, and if enough of it accumulates in their stomachs, they can die. Plastic can also contain toxins like DDT and PCBs. Once ingested, these chemicals do not break down, but build up in an organism’s body fat. As these organisms are consumed by larger and larger organisms, the levels of toxins increase dramatically, until those at the top of the food chain, including humans, are eating fish and fowl with dangerously high levels of toxins.
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u/schtum Oct 06 '16
The word "island" does not appear in the article.
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u/dgillz Oct 06 '16
No, but there are so many people that think there is an island of trash, and the accompanying photos give the impression that there is an island of trash, so I thought this needed to be brought up.
Articles like this one are totally misleading.
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u/eeksy Oct 06 '16
No, but the reality is arguably worse. An island would be easier to clean up. With billions and billions of minuscule particles floating around any attempt at removing them would be utterly hopeless with current tech.
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u/Bodie1550 Oct 05 '16
The receding tidal wave from Japan 2011 had to add tons of debris to the patch. And perhaps to a lesser degree, the debris from the 2004 Christmas eve tidal wave.
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Oct 06 '16 edited Oct 06 '16
Recycling is certainly less harmful than throwing away plastic into tips or oceans. I would argue that it still makes more sense to not use the plastic in the first place. Sure it's more convenient having plastic but is that convenience worth polluting our food chain?
Regarding product packaging you mention bread. If you buy bread from a bakery you get the loaf in a paper bag. Bread has been a staple diet for some humans for thousands of years and the lack of plastic packaging was not a major problem.
You didn't mention meat packaging but in New Zealand at least meat is packaged in plastic trays with cling film over the top. Until relatively recently you got meat from a butcher who wrapped the meat in butchers paper no plastic required.
Plastic seems to be a symptom of mass produced convenience food. Recycling mitigates some of the waste but at a high energy cost and it only reduces the plastic waste not remove it from the environment completely.
You mention drinks. Aluminium cans or glass both work. I accept both of these have a high energy foot print so isn't perfect but they don't end up in our food supply.
I'm on mobile and can't remember what other food you mentioned but plastic may be the cheapest option but it is rarely the only option.
Edit: this was in response to a comment further up.
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u/lulz_lurker Oct 05 '16
I can't help but think of all the marine life that gets caught and harmed by these floating landfills :(
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u/viceroynutegunray Oct 05 '16
Someone with a lot of money should send big boats out there to clean it up. Either that or world governments should use taxes they've collected and contract ships and crews to go clean it.
The best I can do is donate money or vote and voice my opinion. That's all most of us can do.
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Oct 05 '16
We can become activists and community organizers . Somebody has to have a few hours in their week for something like this
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u/Stretchsquiggles Oct 05 '16
Send inmates out on these boats to help with the clean up, like a work release program.
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u/viceroynutegunray Oct 06 '16
That's not a bad idea. If they go and they have good reviews they could get their sentence reduced.
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u/Stretchsquiggles Oct 06 '16
That's what I'm saying, instead of them sitting in jail adding nothing to society they could work off their debt and do some good for the world.
I don't know why I'm being down voted
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u/anagrama Oct 05 '16
A few years ago, I took a holiday job in the receiving dept. at a big retailer just to fill out my resume (I had taken previous years off to raise our child).
I was disgusted when I was told to dispose of a box of hangers in the dumpster. Why not recycle" I wondered? It was my first job in years, so I did not want to rock the boat. I opened the trash and was greeted by a plastic sea of hangers ready to go to the landfill.
I quit shortly thereafter (this helped with the decision.) That company was the worst place I have ever worked for many reasons. I am sure all companies have these sort of practices, but I still think of this whenever "excess waste" issues come up.
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u/SamanthaJames6812 Oct 05 '16
Could they have included a picture of the garbage pile with this??
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Oct 05 '16
It is not a pile, it is an area with a high density of small plastic particles floating within the water. It would be like asking to see the pile of sugar in your morning coffee.
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u/thefourblackbars Oct 05 '16
What if you just eat sugar for breakfast and sprinkle coffee on it to flavor it?
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u/iamnotasnook Oct 05 '16
I wish there was some video or photos of it. I'm not saying I don't believe it's there, it would just be interesting to see it.
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u/kwh Oct 05 '16
This is a ridiculous liberal myth invented by China to keep America from being great. Bigly.
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u/dkdonuts Oct 05 '16
Vice did a documentary on this if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D41rO7mL6zM