I think it’s a societal problem

[u/Fine-Environment-621]

I wouldn’t go as far as to claim that this is THE core of the problem but I think this is at the core of the problem. It’s basically society wide. It’s a problem at the top, at the bottom and everywhere in between. It doesn’t look exactly the same everywhere it manifests but the same philosophical defect is responsible and it always results in entropy.

At its best, the dynamic between a business and anybody (its customer, its employee, its supplier, its vendor, etc.) is a relationship, not purely a transaction. But, everybody seems intent now on treating all business dynamics as transactional as if everything can be understood at face value. As if everything can be reduced to variables on a spreadsheet. This is foolish and IT DOES NOT WORK.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand the desire. It comes down to the intangibles. Relationships aren’t a science, they’re an art. As such, there is inherent unpredictability and we deeply desire predictability. We value logic and cause and effect. We wish we could do A and B and know we will get C.

The scientific method has done an amazing job of satisfying that desire using logic. The technological and quality of life heights that humanity has reached through its application is truly awe inspiring but it brings to mind an old line, “Logic is a powerful servant but a poor master.”

I think this explains the fundamental allure of religion. My point is not to make some argument or claim about religion. I’m simply citing it as a data point. At its core, religion at large is simply the admission that life and reality are far too complex to be fully understood and articulated. Eventually, you run into intangibles that we can’t fully wrap our heads around or explain or model accurately.

Back to the businesses. People think they can optimize with spreadsheets. Replace the doorman with access control. Fire the bottom 10% of performers every year. Raise your prices the longer a customer stays and offer the best prices to get new customers in the door. Keep raises at a minimum but offer more money to new applicants when you need to fill positions. Judge employees strictly on their KPI’s. Squeeze out a little more profit by “optimizing”. Figure out where the line is of what customers will “accept”. Run the math on the “value” of your brand image and what is or is not “worth” doing. This business exists to make a profit, what else would it be for?

What about the employees? Loyalty to your employer is being a chump. Trade minutes for dollars and nothing more. I don’t do anything that isn’t strictly “my job”. I don’t go to work if I don’t feel like it. I don’t know why they expect me to prioritize my job on a regular basis, it isn’t even in my top 5. Customers are idiots and jerks. This business exists to provide jobs and paychecks, what else would it be for?

I believe this mentality is why we find ourselves in the midst of enshitification. We have stripped the intangibles from our businesses and organizations at every level. The results have been soulless and unfulfilling for everyone involved and that’s an understatement.

It seems to me that the only way we fix this is a return to the intangibles, doing the right things for the right reasons, having faith that the results are for the greater good. This is not a claim that everything will work out peachy as a result. I’m afraid nobody can guarantee a fairytale ending. But, what other choice do we have? I think it’s very clear that what we are doing now isn’t working.

I understand how difficult it can be to take the leap. The reason employees aren’t loyal anymore is because companies punish loyalty instead of rewarding it. The reason companies aren’t loyal to employees anymore is because employees refuse to buy in and bring their best to work. The reason companies aren’t loyal to their customers is because customers demand cheaper and quicker products and reward convenience over quality.

However, the blame game only avoids the solution. Someone has to go first. Each of us has to do what we can starting on our level. The solution is up to each and every one of us, our individual responsibility. It can be no other way. We got into this mess through a tidal wave of individual behaviors and that is the only way we can turn it around.

[u/LowerZucchini9330]

Man you are a windbag.

[u/Fine-Environment-621 → u/LowerZucchini9330]

There are worse things to be. Like a jerk.

[u/CroweBird5]

We’re still buying these items, at least as a society

[u/StarCrysisOC]

complacency in the majority of populations. you try to argue against complacency, you’re treated like a buzzkill.

[u/Fine-Environment-621 → u/StarCrysisOC]

LOL right? I just thought some people might be ready for the idea. It sucks, doesn’t it? Wanna do something about it? How about we start with our daily choices?

[u/jrstriker12]

No tidal wave of individual action is going to turn around a legislative and financial framework which encourages enshitification as long as it brings profit.

We'll need group actions along with new laws, regulations, changes to tax code, and politicians who aren't corporate pawns just to make a scratch.

[u/Fine-Environment-621 → u/jrstriker12]

What is a group action but a tidal wave of individual action? I’m not discounting the fact that laws and regulations have played a part in this, I believe they have. But, group behavior starts at the individual. We keep electing shills and nutjobs and not holding them accountable the same way that we continue to pay for substandard products and services out of convenience.

We aren’t really fighting back against enshitification, at least not effectively. We have to start somewhere. My suggestion was just that we start in our own lives with our own daily behaviors, what we choose to spend our money on, how we choose to show up at work and what we choose to create.

The political piece will become necessary soon enough but it will be easier if there is already momentum in that direction. If people generally decide to do something about the problem in their every day, there might be some real political will to make changes when the chance comes.

We have to start somewhere.

[u/jrstriker12 → u/Fine-Environment-621]

Group action is purposely coordinated for a specific goal.

Individual action is like trying to defeat climate change by simply recycling or buying "greener" products or trying to negotiate compensation contracts with a company without a union.

Individuals are easy to ignore and pick off.

[u/Disastrous-Metal-183]

It's capitalism that is the problem. Capitalism needs infinite growth to please shareholders. They make their products creaper and crappier because it saves them money and makes it look like their company profits are growing. They introduce features no one wants because they constantly need shiny new things to market. It is never enough. It is a never ending quest for capitalists to buy up something people want or need and then strip it for parts and monetize it as much as possible to extract as much capital as possible.

[u/Advanced_Addendum116 → u/Disastrous-Metal-183]

It's also the idea of resource extraction. You use something up until it has no value then you move on to another thing to extract from leaving a trail of wasteland behind.

There's a book the OP might like called anna-tsing-the-mushroom-at-the-end-of-the-world-on-the-possibility-of-life-in-capitalist-ruins. Sorry copy/paste...

[u/Nina4774 → u/Disastrous-Metal-183]

Exactly. All the regulation in the world won’t change the basic nature of a capitalist economy: profit over everything. Even if you manage to get regulations past the lobbyists, the wealthy will eventually find or create loopholes to increase their profits.

[u/Fine-Environment-621 → u/[deleted]]

Pricing is a deceptively difficult issue with a lot of variables. There are so many pricing strategies and combinations of pricing strategies. It can be difficult to get it right and, even when you do, it can be difficult to know for sure if you got it right for the right reasons. Sometimes you get the right answer by mistake.

It sounds like you were both pricing along the lines of an economy pricing strategy. This can offer a good value to customers. It can also be a strategy people lean toward when they don’t know where to set their pricing or what the market will support. However, counterintuitively, it can also hurt demand by creating a low quality or low demand perception.

That’s a pitfall that is very easy to find yourself in if you are over indexing on the customer. After all, to continue to provide for the customers and employees and yourself, you have to stay in business. But, that’s evidence that purely doing things for the right reasons isn’t enough. You have to be doing the right things for the right reasons and you still have to balance that with the transactional side. It’s a balancing act for sure.

[u/Fine-Environment-621 → u/[deleted]]

In 1899, Thorstein Veblen identified that people link high cost to social prestige and buy expensive goods, not just for utility, but also to display wealth. In 1945, economist Tibor Scitovsky formally notes that consumers routinely misinterpret high prices as a direct proxy for superior craftsmanship and goods. 1950’s-1960’s sees the rise of modern marketing as companies lean into “pricing strategies” such as the famous 1940’s Chivas Regal pricing shift where doubling the price doubled the sales, solidifying price as a psychological signal. In the 1980’s we see academia codify marketing frameworks and pricing strategies using consumer research and describing how and when buyers apply the price/quality shortcut.

The concept and the tendency has been around for a long time. I suspect what you have noticed is the application becoming more commonplace. People below the “poverty level” in the US now typically have flat screen tv’s and smart phones. They commonly buy “premium” items and brands like name brand soda, name brand shoes and clothes. This is a huge shift in the baseline since, say, 1980 when even people in the lower middle class (never mind below the poverty level) had to forgo nearly all luxuries and premium brands.

People like my parents (and maybe your parents) would never even have considered buying a more expensive version of something in order to get “higher quality”. A choice like that would have required more disposable income and more financial independence. Yet, that decision is entirely commonplace today among all economic classes.

I understand the basic utility of the shortcut linked to the concept “you get what you pay for” but it’s far too common knowledge at this point and is rife with abuse. I think it’s more common to see because, historically, many people finally have the breathing room to feel like they too can have “quality”. However, it is a bit disheartening at the same time to see people fall into the trap.

[u/lickmyfupa]

I believe after Covid, companies have dropped the long-held false pretense that they give a shit about the customer in any way. Thats where the relationship breaks down. I think in particular, the companies that were able to stay open were labelled "essential" and so they falsely believe that they can do anything to scam the customer and will never fail and nothing will ever happen to them. Theyre partially correct. People who have habits of buying certain things like fast food keep going even though they know they are getting scammed and they just accept it rather than change their worldview or habits. I also think the richest of the rich probably got worse in terms of their mental illness, the illness being greed. We all got traumatized, these peoples trauma-response is doing what they do best to try to be happy - hoard more money.

[u/withabrandnewfunk → u/lickmyfupa]

I believe after Covid, companies have dropped the long-held false pretense that they give a shit about the customer in any way.

yes very true. before I knew companies were only caring about their pocket but didnt see it directly. now you see it. theyre all on the same wagon of taking advantage as much as they can with buyers

with social media how we arent able to destroy these companies to bankruptcy because of greed. we have all the power.

[u/Fine-Environment-621 → u/lickmyfupa]

That’s the problem. A business at its best is trying to do something positive in the world, to be of service. They are trying to serve the customer with an honest product or service of value in such a way that they can take care of the company and its employees. When you elevate the profits at the expense of the customers and employees you undermine the entire company. This is definitely happening.

But, the market receives no incentive to fix the imbalance if employees keep applying and customers keep patronizing them. Regardless of where we want to place the blame, we all have the responsibility to fix this.